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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

What Chance of Fibre connection other than Virgin Media?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 21st 11, 10:52 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default What Chance of Fibre connection other than Virgin Media?

With Be LLU up to 24 meg unlimited and its on/was BT copper wire but now pay
phone and line rental to Be too.
Virgin have advised me I can go on their fibre network for BB without any
other service if I wish, had always thought you had to have their TV and
phone too.

Does one have to be just lucky for my copper wire to be converted to fibre
by BT or Be?
Seems to be no clear plan out as to how the copper network being replaced or
duplicated through out the country, now and again this individual exchange
being done, just one here and another there. No joined up plan, like
saying we doing this city centre and then working out so the whole city
done.

I rang VM and asked cost of fibre BB only, was told £21 a month for up to
10 Meg with £40 installation. Said I was surprised as I got more than that
now from copper they said I was mistaken.
Any way they said they also did up to 30 meg and up to 50 meg services, they
really stressed the UP TO. I did query this up to and said I thought the
advantage of fibre over copper was to get the top speeds unaffected by
distance they told me speed varied from house to house, only on a home visit
would they be able to tell.

Sorry I diverted from my proper question.
Regards
David


  #2  
Old March 21st 11, 12:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
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Posts: 2,728
Default What Chance of Fibre connection other than Virgin Media?

David wrote:
With Be LLU up to 24 meg unlimited and its on/was BT copper wire but now
pay phone and line rental to Be too.
Virgin have advised me I can go on their fibre network for BB without
any other service if I wish, had always thought you had to have their TV
and phone too.


No, you dont. Lots of people in Cambridge have broadband only for
example. However most find the phone as well is better value than a BT
landline, once you have the cable coming in.


Does one have to be just lucky for my copper wire to be converted to
fibre by BT or Be?


Yes.

Seems to be no clear plan out as to how the copper network being
replaced or duplicated through out the country, now and again this
individual exchange being done, just one here and another there. No
joined up plan, like saying we doing this city centre and then working
out so the whole city done.


I think there is a plan, and that is to trial it on low numbers on a
selection of sites, till it proves robust enough, then bean count like
mad to see how fast it can be deployed. Given the virtual monopoly,
there is no need to rush..



I rang VM and asked cost of fibre BB only, was told £21 a month for up
to 10 Meg with £40 installation. Said I was surprised as I got more
than that now from copper they said I was mistaken.
Any way they said they also did up to 30 meg and up to 50 meg services,
they really stressed the UP TO. I did query this up to and said I
thought the advantage of fibre over copper was to get the top speeds
unaffected by distance they told me speed varied from house to house,
only on a home visit would they be able to tell.


that's because the final link is still over a pair of phone wires. XDSL.

And the problems still exist, its just that instead of length to the
exchange, its length to street cab.

Virgin tend to run a coax to your house, which is inherently better than
a twisted pair, although that still has its limits as well.

If you want fibre to your house, expect a several grand installation
fee. It may be coming one day, for consumer circuits, but don't hold
your breath.
  #3  
Old March 21st 11, 02:51 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Theo Markettos
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Posts: 539
Default What Chance of Fibre connection other than Virgin Media?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
David wrote:

No, you dont. Lots of people in Cambridge have broadband only for
example. However most find the phone as well is better value than a BT
landline, once you have the cable coming in.


Depends. The line rental is cheap, but Virgin's calls are a lot more
expensive. So it might be useful if you want a second line, but not if you
want to make lots of calls.

that's because the final link is still over a pair of phone wires. XDSL.


(on BT)

And the problems still exist, its just that instead of length to the
exchange, its length to street cab.

Virgin tend to run a coax to your house, which is inherently better than
a twisted pair, although that still has its limits as well.


AFAIK Virgin is 'subject to survey'. In other words, there may not be
enough signal at the end of your particular cable run to get service. This
depends how far you are from the street cab.

But if you can get service, I think you get 100% of the advertised speed.
Unlike ADSL where the speed degrades with distance [1]. I think the 'up
to'-ness being stressed is there's traffic management so you can't expect to
download 10/20/50Mbps 24/7.

[1] I'm not 100% sure of DOCSIS specifics, but AIUI on cable there isn't a
channel measuring phase like there is on DSL. So the channels are
semi-statically allocated and you either get them or you don't. I don't
think there's any dynamic frequency allocation to compensate for nulls -
cable is a broadcast medium so each run may have different frequency
behaviour. The remedy for this is Virgin simply provide enough power to
start with and minimise losses with a quality cable.

Theo
  #4  
Old March 21st 11, 02:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Brian Mc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 140
Default What Chance of Fibre connection other than Virgin Media?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
: No, you dont. Lots of people in Cambridge have broadband only for
: example. However most find the phone as well is better value than a BT
: landline, once you have the cable coming in.

What??? VM's "line rental" is more than BT's - and they have, I believe,
the most expensive calls of ANY phone provider!

People only take Virgin's phone service as it costs more (certainly for
bundles of services) NOT to have it!
  #5  
Old March 21st 11, 03:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default What Chance of Fibre connection other than Virgin Media?

Brian Mc wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
: No, you dont. Lots of people in Cambridge have broadband only for
: example. However most find the phone as well is better value than a BT
: landline, once you have the cable coming in.

What??? VM's "line rental" is more than BT's - and they have, I believe,
the most expensive calls of ANY phone provider!

People only take Virgin's phone service as it costs more (certainly for
bundles of services) NOT to have it!


Look either its more expensive overall, or it isn't.


You cant have it both ways. :-)
  #6  
Old March 21st 11, 07:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 211
Default What Chance of Fibre connection other than Virgin Media?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Brian Mc wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
: No, you dont. Lots of people in Cambridge have broadband
only for : example. However most find the phone as well is
better value than a BT : landline, once you have the cable
coming in.

What??? VM's "line rental" is more than BT's - and they have,
I believe,
the most expensive calls of ANY phone provider!

People only take Virgin's phone service as it costs more
(certainly for
bundles of services) NOT to have it!


Look either its more expensive overall, or it isn't.


You cant have it both ways. :-)



I'll explain.

I used to have 10Mb cable for BB only. Then I discovered that you
can have phone and a box as well for 10p more - you get the TV
free and pay £11 phone rental. TV is only free channels and a few
odd others, but you do yet iPlayer fed direct to your TV at
(AFAICS) original quality.

I have L for BB and M for phone - I get all landline calls free
at the weekend but we rarely use it. It does come into its own
however if I am away and my wife is on the phone yattering; one
quick call to the cable line to make it ring a few times and she
gets the message!


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


  #7  
Old March 21st 11, 08:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
kraftee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,069
Default What Chance of Fibre connection other than Virgin Media?


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
David wrote:
With Be LLU up to 24 meg unlimited and its on/was BT copper wire but now
pay phone and line rental to Be too.
Virgin have advised me I can go on their fibre network for BB without any
other service if I wish, had always thought you had to have their TV and
phone too.


No, you dont. Lots of people in Cambridge have broadband only for example.
However most find the phone as well is better value than a BT landline,
once you have the cable coming in.


Does one have to be just lucky for my copper wire to be converted to
fibre by BT or Be?


Yes.

Seems to be no clear plan out as to how the copper network being replaced
or duplicated through out the country, now and again this individual
exchange being done, just one here and another there. No joined up
plan, like saying we doing this city centre and then working out so the
whole city done.


I think there is a plan, and that is to trial it on low numbers on a
selection of sites, till it proves robust enough, then bean count like mad
to see how fast it can be deployed. Given the virtual monopoly, there is
no need to rush..



I rang VM and asked cost of fibre BB only, was told £21 a month for up
to 10 Meg with £40 installation. Said I was surprised as I got more
than that now from copper they said I was mistaken.
Any way they said they also did up to 30 meg and up to 50 meg services,
they really stressed the UP TO. I did query this up to and said I
thought the advantage of fibre over copper was to get the top speeds
unaffected by distance they told me speed varied from house to house,
only on a home visit would they be able to tell.


that's because the final link is still over a pair of phone wires. XDSL.


'Fraid you are wrong there the final link is via coaxial cable, not twisted
pair. The speed of the connection depends on length and quality of said
coax'.

  #8  
Old March 21st 11, 08:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default What Chance of Fibre connection other than Virgin Media?



"kraftee" kraftee:b&e-cottee.me.uk wrote in message
...

"
'Fraid you are wrong there the final link is via coaxial cable, not
twisted pair. The speed of the connection depends on length and quality
of said coax'.

I'm about 25 ft from pavement and a little Cable cover. This in turn is
about 60 yds from the green metal cabinet.
Where is it fibre to?
Where does the further link start?
Regards
David

  #9  
Old March 21st 11, 08:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default What Chance of Fibre connection other than Virgin Media?



"kraftee" kraftee:b&e-cottee.me.uk wrote in message
...

"
'Fraid you are wrong there the final link is via coaxial cable, not
twisted pair. The speed of the connection depends on length and quality
of said coax'.

I'm about 25 ft from pavement and a little Cable cover. This in turn is
about 60 yds from the green metal cabinet.
Where is it fibre to?
Where does the further link start?
Regards
David

  #10  
Old March 21st 11, 08:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
alexd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,765
Default What Chance of Fibre connection other than Virgin Media?

Meanwhile, at the uk.telecom.broadband Job Justification Hearings, David
chose the tried and tested strategy of:

With Be LLU up to 24 meg unlimited and its on/was BT copper wire but now
pay phone and line rental to Be too.
Virgin have advised me I can go on their fibre network for BB without any
other service if I wish, had always thought you had to have their TV and
phone too.


You can get BB on its own from them, but it's priced in such a way as to
make no sense. The logic [I think] being that having a phone line gives you
the opportunity to spend money with them, so they factor this into the
price.

Does one have to be just lucky for my copper wire to be converted to fibre
by BT or Be?


I think living in a cabled area is a reasonable way of determining if your
area will get VDSL ;-)

Seems to be no clear plan out as to how the copper network being replaced
or duplicated through out the country, now and again this individual
exchange
being done, just one here and another there. No joined up plan, like
saying we doing this city centre and then working out so the whole city
done.


Don't hold your breath; in at least one area, BT aren't happy with the level
of uptake:

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/201...ed-by-lack-of-
superfast-fttc-broadband-uptake-in-cardiff-wales.html

Although it's not wise to extrapolate from one data point, I don't see any
extenuating circumstances for that area in that story, so have no reason to
believe it's exceptional. And if not enough people are interested in VDSL,
then that doesn't give BT much of an incentive to spend the money.

I rang VM and asked cost of fibre BB only, was told £21 a month for up to
10 Meg with £40 installation. Said I was surprised as I got more than
that now from copper they said I was mistaken.


At this point, alarm bells should be ringing. They're trying to tell you
that you don't actually know how fast your current broadband is. What other
bull**** are they going to give you in order to secure a sale?

Any way they said they also did up to 30 meg and up to 50 meg services,
they really stressed the UP TO.


Perfectly wise. They're not selling you an SLA.

I did query this up to and said I thought the advantage of fibre over
copper was to get the top speeds unaffected by distance they told me speed
varied from house to house, only on a home visit would they be able to
tell.


For both, speed is determined by signal strength, which is affected by
distance and the quality of the cable.

--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
20:17:31 up 1 day, 22:36, 6 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.05
"I am utterly appalled at how I have been treated like a criminal"
-- Andrew Crossley, ACS:Law, 13 August 2010

 




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