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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Low-rate backup



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 15th 11, 10:52 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
John Geddes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Low-rate backup

I have a project that requires a low-rate data connection to rural
buildings without phone lines - in areas where mobile coverage is
patchy. Installing a phone line and then paying for broadband feels
expensive for the amounts of data to be transmitted.

The pilot building is sharing a neighbour's ADSL via a wifi link, but
there is an obvious problem of not being able to access the router if
there are problems while the neighbour goes away on holiday. Even if
we tried to duplicate this with another neighbour, it's not
unthinkable that you could find both away for the same week.

Data rates are very low, and latency would be no issue - but a quick
look at satellite operators suggested substantial monthly charges
however low the amount of data.

Has anyone come across a satellite operator who offers a low standing
charge? Other ideas?

John Geddes
Derbyshire
  #2  
Old April 15th 11, 10:57 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 620
Default Low-rate backup


"John Geddes" wrote in message
...
I have a project that requires a low-rate data connection to rural
buildings without phone lines - in areas where mobile coverage is
patchy. Installing a phone line and then paying for broadband feels
expensive for the amounts of data to be transmitted.

The pilot building is sharing a neighbour's ADSL via a wifi link, but
there is an obvious problem of not being able to access the router if
there are problems while the neighbour goes away on holiday. Even if
we tried to duplicate this with another neighbour, it's not
unthinkable that you could find both away for the same week.

Data rates are very low, and latency would be no issue - but a quick
look at satellite operators suggested substantial monthly charges
however low the amount of data.

Has anyone come across a satellite operator who offers a low standing
charge? Other ideas?



What is the cost of not having the "low-rate data connection" ??

Assuming you can get a phone line (which might be a significant problem)
then ADSL is probably good value.

--
Graham J


  #3  
Old April 15th 11, 10:58 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
J B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 85
Default Low-rate backup

On 15/04/2011 09:52, John Geddes wrote:
I have a project that requires a low-rate data connection to rural
buildings without phone lines - in areas where mobile coverage is
patchy. Installing a phone line and then paying for broadband feels
expensive for the amounts of data to be transmitted.

The pilot building is sharing a neighbour's ADSL via a wifi link, but
there is an obvious problem of not being able to access the router if
there are problems while the neighbour goes away on holiday. Even if
we tried to duplicate this with another neighbour, it's not
unthinkable that you could find both away for the same week.

Data rates are very low, and latency would be no issue - but a quick
look at satellite operators suggested substantial monthly charges
however low the amount of data.

Has anyone come across a satellite operator who offers a low standing
charge? Other ideas?


Dongle?

Where exactly are you? There is a company in NW Wales who were offering
a wireless system which sounded interesting

--
J B
  #4  
Old April 15th 11, 11:49 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Low-rate backup

John Geddes wrote:
I have a project that requires a low-rate data connection to rural
buildings without phone lines - in areas where mobile coverage is
patchy. Installing a phone line and then paying for broadband feels
expensive for the amounts of data to be transmitted.

The pilot building is sharing a neighbour's ADSL via a wifi link, but
there is an obvious problem of not being able to access the router if
there are problems while the neighbour goes away on holiday. Even if
we tried to duplicate this with another neighbour, it's not
unthinkable that you could find both away for the same week.

Data rates are very low, and latency would be no issue - but a quick
look at satellite operators suggested substantial monthly charges
however low the amount of data.

Has anyone come across a satellite operator who offers a low standing
charge? Other ideas?

John Geddes
Derbyshire


This is where a spreadsheet is handy.

You need to evaluate all the options, and even think 'outside the box'


e.g. someone on a bicycle with a memory stick :-)

If the data is truly low, you may find a phone line and a modem is all
you need.

Also a lot depends on what is running in the locations. *nix systems and
UUCP used to run Usenet over modems in the past, and the tools are all
still there..

If you are using windows, however, options are very limited.


More detail as to what data, what quantity and what its running on would
help.
  #5  
Old April 15th 11, 12:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
John Geddes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Low-rate backup

On Apr 15, 9:58*am, J B wrote:
On 15/04/2011 09:52, John Geddes wrote:









I have a project that requires a low-rate data connection to rural
buildings without phone lines - in areas where mobile coverage is
patchy. Installing a phone line and then paying for broadband feels
expensive for the amounts of data to be transmitted.


The pilot building is sharing a neighbour's ADSL via a wifi link, but
there is an obvious problem of not being able to access the router if
there are problems while the neighbour goes away on holiday. Even if
we tried to duplicate this with another neighbour, it's not
unthinkable that you could find both away for the same week.


Data rates are very low, and latency would be no issue - but a quick
look at satellite operators suggested substantial monthly charges
however low the amount of data.


Has anyone come across a satellite operator who offers a low standing
charge? Other ideas?


Dongle?

Where exactly are you? There is a company in NW Wales who were offering
a wireless system which sounded interesting

--
J B


The pilot is in Derbyshire, where Zycomm do offer a radio-based
broadband service, but even their slowest service is 20 a month which
is still quite expensive given the tiny data quantities (Probably
around 1Mb per month). And I am hoping to serve a range of sites where
such services aren't available.
  #6  
Old April 15th 11, 12:46 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Low-rate backup

John Geddes wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:58 am, J B wrote:
On 15/04/2011 09:52, John Geddes wrote:









I have a project that requires a low-rate data connection to rural
buildings without phone lines - in areas where mobile coverage is
patchy. Installing a phone line and then paying for broadband feels
expensive for the amounts of data to be transmitted.
The pilot building is sharing a neighbour's ADSL via a wifi link, but
there is an obvious problem of not being able to access the router if
there are problems while the neighbour goes away on holiday. Even if
we tried to duplicate this with another neighbour, it's not
unthinkable that you could find both away for the same week.
Data rates are very low, and latency would be no issue - but a quick
look at satellite operators suggested substantial monthly charges
however low the amount of data.
Has anyone come across a satellite operator who offers a low standing
charge? Other ideas?

Dongle?

Where exactly are you? There is a company in NW Wales who were offering
a wireless system which sounded interesting

--
J B


The pilot is in Derbyshire, where Zycomm do offer a radio-based
broadband service, but even their slowest service is 20 a month which
is still quite expensive given the tiny data quantities (Probably
around 1Mb per month). And I am hoping to serve a range of sites where
such services aren't available.


well, let's see.

A PAYG landline phone is about 10 quid a month, and on top of that will
be an 0845 dial up broadband cost.

1 Mbyte at say 36kbps over a modem, say 4k bytes per second is only 250
seconds of call per month. Or 4 minutes and a bit. Say 5 minutes

No sure what 0845 numbers cost, but maybe 6p a minute? so that's
another 30p

So the dominant cost is getting the phone line in, in the first place,
and it's rental.

That has to be compared with the capital cost and rental of satellite
(much greater)

You will be pushed to be able to remote access anything not on a
'permanently on' style connection either. it is possible to admin a
remote *nix system over an auto answer modem, but I doubt you would want to.

It is not clear whether these sites are attended or not. or whether they
are physically local. Can you e.g. run your own wires between them?


  #7  
Old April 15th 11, 02:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
John Geddes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Low-rate backup

On Apr 15, 11:46*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
John Geddes wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:58 am, J B wrote:
On 15/04/2011 09:52, John Geddes wrote:


I have a project that requires a low-rate data connection to rural
buildings without phone lines - in areas where mobile coverage is
patchy. Installing a phone line and then paying for broadband feels
expensive for the amounts of data to be transmitted.
The pilot building is sharing a neighbour's ADSL via a wifi link, but
there is an obvious problem of not being able to access the router if
there are problems while the neighbour goes away on holiday. Even if
we tried to duplicate this with another neighbour, it's not
unthinkable that you could find both away for the same week.
Data rates are very low, and latency would be no issue - but a quick
look at satellite operators suggested substantial monthly charges
however low the amount of data.
Has anyone come across a satellite operator who offers a low standing
charge? Other ideas?
Dongle?


Where exactly are you? There is a company in NW Wales who were offering
a wireless system which sounded interesting


--
J B


The pilot is in Derbyshire, where Zycomm do offer a radio-based
broadband service, but even their slowest service is 20 a month which
is still quite expensive given the tiny data quantities (Probably
around 1Mb per month). And I am hoping to serve a range of sites where
such services aren't available.


well, let's see.

A PAYG landline phone is about 10 quid a month, and on top of that will
be an 0845 dial up broadband cost.

1 Mbyte at say 36kbps over a modem, say 4k bytes per second is only 250
seconds of call per month. Or 4 minutes and a bit. Say 5 minutes

No sure what 0845 numbers cost, but maybe 6p a minute? *so that's
another 30p

So the dominant cost is getting the phone line in, in the first place,
and it's rental.

That has to be compared with the capital cost and rental of satellite
(much greater)

You will be pushed to be able to remote access anything not on a
'permanently on' style connection either. it is possible to admin a
remote *nix system over an auto answer modem, but I doubt you would want to.

It is not clear whether these sites are attended or not. or whether they
are physically local. *Can you e.g. run your own wires between them?


Buildings will be generally unmanned and will be dotted across the UK,
so no scope for own wires to connect them. The premises equipment
(which is pretty basic) sends/receives TCP/IP.

The basic economics of the satellite business (no limit on how many
customer accounts and limited Mb with a high cost of adding more
capacity) would seem well suited to pitch for business from customers
attracted to a low-monthly-cost + high-variable-cost tariff (as long
as they were willing to bear the cost of installation without
subsidy). But I've not found anyone offering this yet.

John
  #8  
Old April 15th 11, 02:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Low-rate backup

John Geddes wrote:
On Apr 15, 11:46 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
John Geddes wrote:
On Apr 15, 9:58 am, J B wrote:
On 15/04/2011 09:52, John Geddes wrote:
I have a project that requires a low-rate data connection to rural
buildings without phone lines - in areas where mobile coverage is
patchy. Installing a phone line and then paying for broadband feels
expensive for the amounts of data to be transmitted.
The pilot building is sharing a neighbour's ADSL via a wifi link, but
there is an obvious problem of not being able to access the router if
there are problems while the neighbour goes away on holiday. Even if
we tried to duplicate this with another neighbour, it's not
unthinkable that you could find both away for the same week.
Data rates are very low, and latency would be no issue - but a quick
look at satellite operators suggested substantial monthly charges
however low the amount of data.
Has anyone come across a satellite operator who offers a low standing
charge? Other ideas?
Dongle?
Where exactly are you? There is a company in NW Wales who were offering
a wireless system which sounded interesting
--
J B
The pilot is in Derbyshire, where Zycomm do offer a radio-based
broadband service, but even their slowest service is 20 a month which
is still quite expensive given the tiny data quantities (Probably
around 1Mb per month). And I am hoping to serve a range of sites where
such services aren't available.

well, let's see.

A PAYG landline phone is about 10 quid a month, and on top of that will
be an 0845 dial up broadband cost.

1 Mbyte at say 36kbps over a modem, say 4k bytes per second is only 250
seconds of call per month. Or 4 minutes and a bit. Say 5 minutes

No sure what 0845 numbers cost, but maybe 6p a minute? so that's
another 30p

So the dominant cost is getting the phone line in, in the first place,
and it's rental.

That has to be compared with the capital cost and rental of satellite
(much greater)

You will be pushed to be able to remote access anything not on a
'permanently on' style connection either. it is possible to admin a
remote *nix system over an auto answer modem, but I doubt you would want to.

It is not clear whether these sites are attended or not. or whether they
are physically local. Can you e.g. run your own wires between them?


Buildings will be generally unmanned and will be dotted across the UK,
so no scope for own wires to connect them. The premises equipment
(which is pretty basic) sends/receives TCP/IP.


Ah, so its not computers as we may think of them..talking about embedded
systems devices like perhaps weather stations?


The basic economics of the satellite business (no limit on how many
customer accounts and limited Mb with a high cost of adding more
capacity) would seem well suited to pitch for business from customers
attracted to a low-monthly-cost + high-variable-cost tariff (as long
as they were willing to bear the cost of installation without
subsidy). But I've not found anyone offering this yet.


And why would they care anyway for such a niche market.


Having done this sort of stuff in the past, Id be temped to construct
the whole shebang round very very simple linux boxes with dial up modems
in them. Make those auto answer, and then poll them from central and
pull the data over with UUCP. Or use PPP over the modems and the TCP/IP
suite of tools.


If you have a TCP/IP smart 'box' that needs something else in between,
again use a linux box and a modem as that 'in between' You don't even
need an ISP at all.If the remotes are passive slaves, waiting for phone
calls, you just need a smart box somewhere to dial up, suck the data
off, and drop the link on a timed script.







John

 




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