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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Download Limits and 'Fair' Usage Policies



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 31st 12, 07:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Hume
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default Download Limits and 'Fair' Usage Policies

I expect that this has been discussed somewhere, but I haven't found an
answer. Why are we being subjected to download limits and fair usage
policies? Is there any genuine technical reason for it, or is it just a
way for ISPs to make more money? The infrastructure should be getting
cheaper, but prices seem to be going up.

I am getting about 6 Mbit band width, and the only way I can improve it
for the same price is to agree to a download limit.

And the bundles with telephone lines make it even more difficult to
compare prices. See all those connection charges, and 0845 exclusions.

I've come across this on the Talktalk website:

http://www.talktalk.co.uk/comparison/

Notice the box which says "Unlimited download allowance as standard".
But then click on the small print button (javascript required) and it
says this:

"TalkTalk Essentials includes:

Up to 24 meg download speed, depending on location
A 40GB download allowance"

So is there a limit or not? Both, apparently.
  #2  
Old July 31st 12, 07:40 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Download Limits and 'Fair' Usage Policies



"David Hume" wrote in message
news
I expect that this has been discussed somewhere, but I haven't found an
answer. Why are we being subjected to download limits and fair usage
policies? Is there any genuine technical reason for it, or is it just a
way for ISPs to make more money? The infrastructure should be getting
cheaper, but prices seem to be going up.

I am getting about 6 Mbit band width, and the only way I can improve it
for the same price is to agree to a download limit.

And the bundles with telephone lines make it even more difficult to
compare prices. See all those connection charges, and 0845 exclusions.

I've come across this on the Talktalk website:

http://www.talktalk.co.uk/comparison/

Notice the box which says "Unlimited download allowance as standard".
But then click on the small print button (javascript required) and it
says this:

"TalkTalk Essentials includes:

Up to 24 meg download speed, depending on location
A 40GB download allowance"

So is there a limit or not? Both, apparently.



I'm with Be on their Be Unlimited broadband and I have no problems and good
customer service.
Regards
David

  #3  
Old July 31st 12, 08:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 211
Default Download Limits and 'Fair' Usage Policies

Its nothing to do with making money per se.

ISP's have spent a lot of time getting the ADSL/cable speed up
but have spent little or nothing on background infrastructure.
From what I see whilst we have gone from 2Mb to 8Mb to 16Mb to
20Mb as a domestic line delivery speed the ISP's have just taken
more and more on without spending anything (or very little at
least) on their Internet feeds. Net result is that you sit there
for ages waiting for things to happen - suddenly.

How do you get around it so that the punter doesn't think they're
being conned? You impose throttling and download limits in the
hope that the general user won't notice because they are trying
to keep their usage down.

Chicken and egg anyone?


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


  #4  
Old July 31st 12, 08:58 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Download Limits and 'Fair' Usage Policies

Woody wrote:
Its nothing to do with making money per se.

ISP's have spent a lot of time getting the ADSL/cable speed up
but have spent little or nothing on background infrastructure.
From what I see whilst we have gone from 2Mb to 8Mb to 16Mb to
20Mb as a domestic line delivery speed the ISP's have just taken
more and more on without spending anything (or very little at
least) on their Internet feeds. Net result is that you sit there
for ages waiting for things to happen - suddenly.

How do you get around it so that the punter doesn't think they're
being conned? You impose throttling and download limits in the
hope that the general user won't notice because they are trying
to keep their usage down.

Chicken and egg anyone?

Twas ever thus.

The ISPs will maintain as shoddy a service as wont result in more
people leaving them (churn) as are attracted by their bogus offers.

Those of us who want better do the research and pay more and get much
much more.




--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.
  #5  
Old July 31st 12, 10:58 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
alexd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,765
Default Download Limits and 'Fair' Usage Policies

David Hume (for it is he) wrote:

Why are we being subjected to download limits and fair usage policies? Is
there any genuine technical reason for it


There isn't enough capacity in the network for everyone to max out their
connection at once; you're sharing the network with others. Unfortunately
there's something of an honesty deficit when it comes to explaining this to
potential customers, hence the sophistry around the words 'limit' and
'unlimited' from the industry.

Uncontended services are available, but I doubt you'll like the price.

The infrastructure should be getting cheaper, but prices seem to be going
up.


No doubt you get faster network hardware for the same money now than n years
ago. I've also no doubt that usage has increased too. Youtube, iPlayer,
Bittorrent, Dropbox, the list of bandwidth hungry services is never-ending.

I am getting about 6 Mbit band width, and the only way I can improve it
for the same price is to agree to a download limit.


Post the line stats here first before you take the plunge. You might already
be getting as much as you can from your line.

And the bundles with telephone lines make it even more difficult to
compare prices. See all those connection charges, and 0845 exclusions.


Nothing new there I'm afraid.

"Unlimited download allowance as standard".


"Up to 24 meg download speed, depending on location
A 40GB download allowance"


Either I've missed something, or that page is a total car crash; "18 month
total" divided by 18 is *less* than the "Standard monthly pricing"? And,
"Standard monthly pricing (includes Line rental and Security)", but
"Security" is broken out as a separate item, so do you add it, take it away,
ignore it or what?

So is there a limit or not? Both, apparently.


Normally when they want to define a concept in two different ways to suit
themselves, they at least go to the trouble of using two different words for
it, but apparently not in this case. It's probably a typo, but unfortunately
you're going to have to interact with Talktalk in order to find out. Are you
really that desperate to know?

--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
21:26:52 up 202 days, 0 min, 6 users, load average: 0.12, 0.13, 0.35
Qua illic est reprehendit, illic est a vindicatum

  #6  
Old August 1st 12, 10:52 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 525
Default Download Limits and 'Fair' Usage Policies

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 21:58:07 +0100, alexd
wrote:

David Hume (for it is he) wrote:

Why are we being subjected to download limits and fair usage policies? Is
there any genuine technical reason for it


There isn't enough capacity in the network for everyone to max out their
connection at once; you're sharing the network with others. Unfortunately
there's something of an honesty deficit when it comes to explaining this to
potential customers, hence the sophistry around the words 'limit' and
'unlimited' from the industry.


Quite. The ASA allows them to lie by describing a product with limits
as unlimited.

Uncontended services are available, but I doubt you'll like the price.

The infrastructure should be getting cheaper, but prices seem to be going
up.


No doubt you get faster network hardware for the same money now than n years
ago. I've also no doubt that usage has increased too. Youtube, iPlayer,
Bittorrent, Dropbox, the list of bandwidth hungry services is never-ending.


Often it's not the hardware that limits your performance but your
phone line length (DSL). If cable or fibre is available then you can
often boost speeds by switching.

I am getting about 6 Mbit band width, and the only way I can improve it
for the same price is to agree to a download limit.


Post the line stats here first before you take the plunge. You might already
be getting as much as you can from your line.


Very likely.

And the bundles with telephone lines make it even more difficult to
compare prices. See all those connection charges, and 0845 exclusions.


Nothing new there I'm afraid.


It's generally called "confusion marketing". It's common in the
telecom (and other markets).

"Unlimited download allowance as standard".


"Up to 24 meg download speed, depending on location
A 40GB download allowance"


Either I've missed something, or that page is a total car crash; "18 month
total" divided by 18 is *less* than the "Standard monthly pricing"? And,
"Standard monthly pricing (includes Line rental and Security)", but
"Security" is broken out as a separate item, so do you add it, take it away,
ignore it or what?

So is there a limit or not? Both, apparently.


Normally when they want to define a concept in two different ways to suit
themselves, they at least go to the trouble of using two different words for
it, but apparently not in this case. It's probably a typo, but unfortunately
you're going to have to interact with Talktalk in order to find out. Are you
really that desperate to know?


I really doubt it's a typo. As I said above this deliberately
misleading language is commonplace.

If you may swap ISPs I suggest you read their reviews since there are
big differences between them. For example, if you want to talk to
someone who can understand and speak english then avoid BT. I don't
believe that talktalk has a particularly good reputation.

I use Plusnet as they are good value and offer decent service.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

  #7  
Old August 1st 12, 11:37 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Download Limits and 'Fair' Usage Policies



"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 21:58:07 +0100, alexd
wrote:

If you may swap ISPs I suggest you read their reviews since there are
big differences between them. For example, if you want to talk to
someone who can understand and speak english then avoid BT. I don't
believe that talktalk has a particularly good reputation.

I use Plusnet as they are good value and offer decent service.



Thought they were BT ?
Regards
David


  #8  
Old August 1st 12, 12:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Moonraker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Download Limits and 'Fair' Usage Policies

On 01/08/2012 10:37, David wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 21:58:07 +0100, alexd
wrote:

If you may swap ISPs I suggest you read their reviews since there are
big differences between them. For example, if you want to talk to
someone who can understand and speak english then avoid BT. I don't
believe that talktalk has a particularly good reputation.

I use Plusnet as they are good value and offer decent service.



Thought they were BT ?
Regards
David


A bit off the topic, but one can get similar "rip off's" on the airlines
and rail companies. Ironic that all three are supposedly controlled in
their behaviour by government bodies.

--
Residing on low ground in North Staffordshire
  #9  
Old August 1st 12, 12:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Download Limits and 'Fair' Usage Policies

Moonraker wrote:
On 01/08/2012 10:37, David wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 21:58:07 +0100, alexd
wrote:

If you may swap ISPs I suggest you read their reviews since there are
big differences between them. For example, if you want to talk to
someone who can understand and speak english then avoid BT. I don't
believe that talktalk has a particularly good reputation.

I use Plusnet as they are good value and offer decent service.



Thought they were BT ?
Regards
David


A bit off the topic, but one can get similar "rip off's" on the airlines
and rail companies. Ironic that all three are supposedly controlled in
their behaviour by government bodies.


That's WHY they are controlled.
To near monopoly/cartel status.

--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.
  #10  
Old August 1st 12, 12:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 525
Default Download Limits and 'Fair' Usage Policies

On Wed, 1 Aug 2012 10:37:08 +0100, "David"
wrote:



"Mark" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 21:58:07 +0100, alexd
wrote:

If you may swap ISPs I suggest you read their reviews since there are
big differences between them. For example, if you want to talk to
someone who can understand and speak english then avoid BT. I don't
believe that talktalk has a particularly good reputation.

I use Plusnet as they are good value and offer decent service.



Thought they were BT ?


They are owned by BT but, thankfully, not run by BT.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

 




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