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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Master socket question



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 1st 12, 06:27 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
SW
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Master socket question

Hi,

I have put broadband onto a small office phone line that has an old BT
switchboard attached to it. I think the switchboard is called a 2 by 8 or
something, and there's about 5 handsets attached. Plugging the router's ADSL
line (via a filter of course) into the master socket next to the switchboard
results in a dropped connection every time a call is received or made. I've
managed to stop this by removing the master socket and putting a filter into
the main BT socket behind it, then plugging the master socket face plate and
the ADSL line into the filter. Trouble is, it looks a mess with wires
hanging out and it can't stay like that.
If I bought a master socket with ADSL filter combined, would that do the
same as I've described above but make it look neater?
Something like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/BT-Telephone...pr_product_top

How easy is it for Joe public like me to fit one of these? Will it affect my
contract with BT if I do it myself?

Thanks in advance
Steve

  #2  
Old October 1st 12, 07:01 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Roger Mills
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 283
Default Master socket question

On 01/10/2012 18:27, SW wrote:
Hi,

I have put broadband onto a small office phone line that has an old BT
switchboard attached to it. I think the switchboard is called a 2 by 8
or something, and there's about 5 handsets attached. Plugging the
router's ADSL line (via a filter of course) into the master socket next
to the switchboard results in a dropped connection every time a call is
received or made. I've managed to stop this by removing the master
socket and putting a filter into the main BT socket behind it, then
plugging the master socket face plate and the ADSL line into the filter.
Trouble is, it looks a mess with wires hanging out and it can't stay
like that.
If I bought a master socket with ADSL filter combined, would that do the
same as I've described above but make it look neater?
Something like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/BT-Telephone...pr_product_top


How easy is it for Joe public like me to fit one of these? Will it
affect my contract with BT if I do it myself?

Thanks in advance
Steve


Yes, if done properly it will do the same -or better - job as the
plug-in filter and will be a lot neater.

The filtered faceplate is a straight replacement for the original
faceplate - just fixed to the body of the master socket with a couple of
screws. The only challenging bit - if you haven't done it before - is
removing the extension wiring from the back of the existing faceplate
and kroning it into the IDC connectors on the back of the filtered
faceplate. For this, you'll need something like the yellow plastic tool
shown on the Amazon page which you cite - or a better metal one if
you're going to be doing more of it.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.
  #3  
Old October 1st 12, 07:03 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Flop
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default Master socket question

On 01/10/2012 18:27, SW wrote:
Hi,

I have put broadband onto a small office phone line that has an old BT
switchboard attached to it. I think the switchboard is called a 2 by 8
or something, and there's about 5 handsets attached. Plugging the
router's ADSL line (via a filter of course) into the master socket next
to the switchboard results in a dropped connection every time a call is
received or made. I've managed to stop this by removing the master
socket and putting a filter into the main BT socket behind it, then
plugging the master socket face plate and the ADSL line into the filter.
Trouble is, it looks a mess with wires hanging out and it can't stay
like that.
If I bought a master socket with ADSL filter combined, would that do the
same as I've described above but make it look neater?
Something like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/BT-Telephone...pr_product_top


How easy is it for Joe public like me to fit one of these? Will it
affect my contract with BT if I do it myself?

Thanks in advance
Steve


First look at:

http://www.adslnation.com/support/extensions.php

in direct answer to your question.

You may also consider:

http://www.adslnation.com/products/xtf.php

Flop


  #4  
Old October 1st 12, 07:07 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom
Dave Saville
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default Master socket question

On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 17:27:47 UTC, "SW" wrote:

Hi,

I have put broadband onto a small office phone line that has an old BT
switchboard attached to it. I think the switchboard is called a 2 by 8 or
something, and there's about 5 handsets attached. Plugging the router's ADSL
line (via a filter of course) into the master socket next to the switchboard
results in a dropped connection every time a call is received or made. I've
managed to stop this by removing the master socket and putting a filter into
the main BT socket behind it, then plugging the master socket face plate and
the ADSL line into the filter. Trouble is, it looks a mess with wires
hanging out and it can't stay like that.
If I bought a master socket with ADSL filter combined, would that do the
same as I've described above but make it look neater?
Something like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/BT-Telephone...pr_product_top

How easy is it for Joe public like me to fit one of these? Will it affect my
contract with BT if I do it myself?


Simple. You can mess with it, BT stops at the test socket. It is not
the ADSL router that needs the filter - its all the phones. The
faceplate you bought is exactly what you need and nothing else will
need filters as it is all, or should be, downstream of the one in the
faceplate. Any extension wiring must be off the faceplate.

--
Regards
Dave Saville
  #5  
Old October 1st 12, 08:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom
SW
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Master socket question

"Dave Saville" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 17:27:47 UTC, "SW" wrote:

Hi,

I have put broadband onto a small office phone line that has an old BT
switchboard attached to it. I think the switchboard is called a 2 by 8 or
something, and there's about 5 handsets attached. Plugging the router's
ADSL
line (via a filter of course) into the master socket next to the
switchboard
results in a dropped connection every time a call is received or made.
I've
managed to stop this by removing the master socket and putting a filter
into
the main BT socket behind it, then plugging the master socket face plate
and
the ADSL line into the filter. Trouble is, it looks a mess with wires
hanging out and it can't stay like that.
If I bought a master socket with ADSL filter combined, would that do the
same as I've described above but make it look neater?
Something like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/BT-Telephone...pr_product_top

How easy is it for Joe public like me to fit one of these? Will it affect
my
contract with BT if I do it myself?


Simple. You can mess with it, BT stops at the test socket. It is not
the ADSL router that needs the filter - its all the phones. The
faceplate you bought is exactly what you need and nothing else will
need filters as it is all, or should be, downstream of the one in the
faceplate. Any extension wiring must be off the faceplate.

--
Regards
Dave Saville


Hi

Thanks to you all for your swift replies!
I've now ordered a XTE-2005 Master Faceplate from ADSL Nation.

Cheers
Steve

  #6  
Old October 1st 12, 08:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 211
Default Master socket question

Clarify please. Are you connecting directly to the incoming BT
line which also has the PABX attached to it, or are you trying to
run it off an extension? You also mention a 'dropped connection:'
do you mean loss of the telephone call or (as I suspect) loss of
broadband?

2+8 means two lines 8 extensions, that sort, if electronic, often
being Panasonic.

The filter only stops RF (which carries the ADSL signalling) from
getting to the associated phone - or I guess in this case to the
PABX. The ADSL just passes straight through. If, as I suspect,
the line socket is an incoming line and one of the two feeding
your PABX, then you only need a filter at that point: you most
certainly do NOT need a filter on every extension outlet.

There is one possibility not otherwise mentioned and that is that
your PABX has a true balanced line connection. For explanation,
in the exchange the line to your premises comes out of a
transformer which has a centre tap to earth. This makes it what
is known as a balanced line, both lines being at the same
potential above earth. If any interference is picked up along the
way, as it affects both wires simultanuously in the same phase
the overall effect is zero. A telephone on the end of the line is
'floating' i.e. it has no other connection than the line, but a
PABX may not be.

Most modern equipments use tone signalling so the incoming line
connection to the PABX can be through a transformer with no
centre tap. However older kit could need to send d.c. signalling
to the exchange to make it do something and thus a transformer
with a centre tap may be used. If this is your instance it could
be pulling the ADSL down when you seize the line and hence your
problem. Try disconnecting the PABX and connecting a simple
standalone phone to the line in its place. If that cures the
problem you know where the fault lies; if it does not you may
have a BT line issue.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


  #7  
Old October 1st 12, 08:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom
SW
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Master socket question

"Woody" wrote in message
...
Clarify please. Are you connecting directly to the incoming BT line which
also has the PABX attached to it, or are you trying to run it off an
extension? You also mention a 'dropped connection:' do you mean loss of
the telephone call or (as I suspect) loss of broadband?

2+8 means two lines 8 extensions, that sort, if electronic, often being
Panasonic.

The filter only stops RF (which carries the ADSL signalling) from getting
to the associated phone - or I guess in this case to the PABX. The ADSL
just passes straight through. If, as I suspect, the line socket is an
incoming line and one of the two feeding your PABX, then you only need a
filter at that point: you most certainly do NOT need a filter on every
extension outlet.

There is one possibility not otherwise mentioned and that is that your
PABX has a true balanced line connection. For explanation, in the exchange
the line to your premises comes out of a transformer which has a centre
tap to earth. This makes it what is known as a balanced line, both lines
being at the same potential above earth. If any interference is picked up
along the way, as it affects both wires simultanuously in the same phase
the overall effect is zero. A telephone on the end of the line is
'floating' i.e. it has no other connection than the line, but a PABX may
not be.

Most modern equipments use tone signalling so the incoming line connection
to the PABX can be through a transformer with no centre tap. However older
kit could need to send d.c. signalling to the exchange to make it do
something and thus a transformer with a centre tap may be used. If this is
your instance it could be pulling the ADSL down when you seize the line
and hence your problem. Try disconnecting the PABX and connecting a simple
standalone phone to the line in its place. If that cures the problem you
know where the fault lies; if it does not you may have a BT line issue.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


Hi Woody

I'm connecting directly to the incoming BT line which also has the PABX
attached to it. When I say a 'dropped connection', I do mean the broadband
connection dropped and wouldn't reconnect until the call had ended, whether
it was a call out or in. The only way I could stop it doing that was to put
an ADSL filter in between the BT 'test' socket and the 'master socket' and
plug the ADSL line into that filter. It's old equipment, you can hear a
click from the box when a call is answered, so I think the filter which
replaces the master socket will do the job if it effectively does what I did
when I put the filter in the BT test socket.

I am not familiar with how this PABX works. I'm more familiar with
computers! There are two lines going into the switchboard, and so I'll try
disconnecting each one in turn from the switchboard and try them with a
simple phone to ensure they're OK. Part of this job is to remove one of the
lines to save money, so I expect that we won't be able to make a call while
another is in progress, but I think we should retain the ability to transfer
calls from one extension to another.

Thanks for your help,
Steve

  #8  
Old October 1st 12, 09:44 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom
Graham.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 93
Default Master socket question

On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 20:10:33 +0100, "Woody"
wrote:

Clarify please. Are you connecting directly to the incoming BT
line which also has the PABX attached to it, or are you trying to
run it off an extension? You also mention a 'dropped connection:'
do you mean loss of the telephone call or (as I suspect) loss of
broadband?

2+8 means two lines 8 extensions, that sort, if electronic, often
being Panasonic.

The filter only stops RF (which carries the ADSL signalling) from
getting to the associated phone - or I guess in this case to the
PABX. The ADSL just passes straight through. If, as I suspect,
the line socket is an incoming line and one of the two feeding
your PABX, then you only need a filter at that point: you most
certainly do NOT need a filter on every extension outlet.

There is one possibility not otherwise mentioned and that is that
your PABX has a true balanced line connection. For explanation,
in the exchange the line to your premises comes out of a
transformer which has a centre tap to earth. This makes it what
is known as a balanced line, both lines being at the same
potential above earth. If any interference is picked up along the
way, as it affects both wires simultanuously in the same phase
the overall effect is zero. A telephone on the end of the line is
'floating' i.e. it has no other connection than the line, but a
PABX may not be.

Most modern equipments use tone signalling so the incoming line
connection to the PABX can be through a transformer with no
centre tap. However older kit could need to send d.c. signalling
to the exchange to make it do something and thus a transformer
with a centre tap may be used. If this is your instance it could
be pulling the ADSL down when you seize the line and hence your
problem. Try disconnecting the PABX and connecting a simple
standalone phone to the line in its place. If that cures the
problem you know where the fault lies; if it does not you may
have a BT line issue.


Steady on Woody, the OP has pretty much got this problem sussed
himself, we don't want to sap his confidence ;-)

Reading your post did make me think of a couple of things though. When
I was involved with phone systems for my day job back in the '90's I
did come across a few installations that had earth-start lines. So
I'm wondering if they still exist. I shouldn't think they do, and if
they did they must be incomparable with DSL, but thinking about it you
wouldn't be able to have DSL on them anyway for "administrative"
reasons because a ground start line is likely to be part of a
auxiliary (rollover) group of lines.

Then there was that other historic technique, meter pulses, they were
sent on both legs WRT earth, I wonder how DSL would have fared?

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #9  
Old October 1st 12, 10:42 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 211
Default Master socket question

"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 20:10:33 +0100, "Woody"
wrote:

Clarify please. Are you connecting directly to the incoming BT
line which also has the PABX attached to it, or are you trying
to
run it off an extension? You also mention a 'dropped
connection:'
do you mean loss of the telephone call or (as I suspect) loss
of
broadband?

2+8 means two lines 8 extensions, that sort, if electronic,
often
being Panasonic.

The filter only stops RF (which carries the ADSL signalling)
from
getting to the associated phone - or I guess in this case to
the
PABX. The ADSL just passes straight through. If, as I suspect,
the line socket is an incoming line and one of the two feeding
your PABX, then you only need a filter at that point: you most
certainly do NOT need a filter on every extension outlet.

There is one possibility not otherwise mentioned and that is
that
your PABX has a true balanced line connection. For explanation,
in the exchange the line to your premises comes out of a
transformer which has a centre tap to earth. This makes it what
is known as a balanced line, both lines being at the same
potential above earth. If any interference is picked up along
the
way, as it affects both wires simultanuously in the same phase
the overall effect is zero. A telephone on the end of the line
is
'floating' i.e. it has no other connection than the line, but a
PABX may not be.

Most modern equipments use tone signalling so the incoming line
connection to the PABX can be through a transformer with no
centre tap. However older kit could need to send d.c.
signalling
to the exchange to make it do something and thus a transformer
with a centre tap may be used. If this is your instance it
could
be pulling the ADSL down when you seize the line and hence your
problem. Try disconnecting the PABX and connecting a simple
standalone phone to the line in its place. If that cures the
problem you know where the fault lies; if it does not you may
have a BT line issue.


Steady on Woody, the OP has pretty much got this problem sussed
himself, we don't want to sap his confidence ;-)

Reading your post did make me think of a couple of things
though. When
I was involved with phone systems for my day job back in the
'90's I
did come across a few installations that had earth-start lines.
So
I'm wondering if they still exist. I shouldn't think they do,
and if
they did they must be incomparable with DSL, but thinking about
it you
wouldn't be able to have DSL on them anyway for
"administrative"
reasons because a ground start line is likely to be part of a
auxiliary (rollover) group of lines.

Then there was that other historic technique, meter pulses,
they were
sent on both legs WRT earth, I wonder how DSL would have fared?

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%




Not worthing thinking about methinks! Just too worrying - and
there's no telling what BT might be up to?


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


  #10  
Old October 1st 12, 11:16 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Master socket question

SW wrote:
"Woody" wrote in message
...
Clarify please. Are you connecting directly to the incoming BT line
which also has the PABX attached to it, or are you trying to run it
off an extension? You also mention a 'dropped connection:' do you mean
loss of the telephone call or (as I suspect) loss of broadband?

2+8 means two lines 8 extensions, that sort, if electronic, often
being Panasonic.

The filter only stops RF (which carries the ADSL signalling) from
getting to the associated phone - or I guess in this case to the PABX.
The ADSL just passes straight through. If, as I suspect, the line
socket is an incoming line and one of the two feeding your PABX, then
you only need a filter at that point: you most certainly do NOT need a
filter on every extension outlet.

There is one possibility not otherwise mentioned and that is that your
PABX has a true balanced line connection. For explanation, in the
exchange the line to your premises comes out of a transformer which
has a centre tap to earth. This makes it what is known as a balanced
line, both lines being at the same potential above earth. If any
interference is picked up along the way, as it affects both wires
simultanuously in the same phase the overall effect is zero. A
telephone on the end of the line is 'floating' i.e. it has no other
connection than the line, but a PABX may not be.

Most modern equipments use tone signalling so the incoming line
connection to the PABX can be through a transformer with no centre
tap. However older kit could need to send d.c. signalling to the
exchange to make it do something and thus a transformer with a centre
tap may be used. If this is your instance it could be pulling the ADSL
down when you seize the line and hence your problem. Try disconnecting
the PABX and connecting a simple standalone phone to the line in its
place. If that cures the problem you know where the fault lies; if it
does not you may have a BT line issue.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


Hi Woody

I'm connecting directly to the incoming BT line which also has the PABX
attached to it. When I say a 'dropped connection', I do mean the
broadband connection dropped and wouldn't reconnect until the call had
ended, whether it was a call out or in. The only way I could stop it
doing that was to put an ADSL filter in between the BT 'test' socket and
the 'master socket' and plug the ADSL line into that filter. It's old
equipment, you can hear a click from the box when a call is answered, so
I think the filter which replaces the master socket will do the job if
it effectively does what I did when I put the filter in the BT test socket.


That's totally consistent with there not being a filter between the PABX
and the incoming POTS line.

I've an almost identical PABX setup and have installed a couple more.
The easiosts way is to disconnect the PABX from the incoming line and
reconnected via either an inline filter orvia the filtered faceplate.
Luckily its a simple enough job. If the PABX is quipped with BT style
plugs, plug that into the filtered faceplate. If its been 'punched down'
onto a krone block, disconnect the line and repunch onto the EXTENSION
block in the faceplate.

I am not familiar with how this PABX works. I'm more familiar with
computers! There are two lines going into the switchboard, and so I'll
try disconnecting each one in turn from the switchboard and try them
with a simple phone to ensure they're OK. Part of this job is to remove
one of the lines to save money, so I expect that we won't be able to
make a call while another is in progress, but I think we should retain
the ability to transfer calls from one extension to another.


If you do as I did, and buy a router equipped with VOIP sockets (mines a
Billion router: Draytek also do some) and resister with e.g. SIPGATE on
a PAYG basis, then you can receive calls for free, and make calls on a
PAYG basis on the second line using the VOIP service.

Ask eher if you want more detail.

Thanks for your help,
Steve



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
 




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