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uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) (uk.comp.home-networking) Discussion of all aspects of computer networking in the home, regardless of the platforms, software, topologies and protocols used. Examples of topics include recommendations for hardware or suppliers (e.g. NICs and cabling), protocols, servers, and specific network software. Advertising is not allowed.

Configuring multiple routers?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 5th 12, 08:14 AM posted to alt.comp.networking.connectivity,alt.comp.networking.routers,uk.comp.home-networking
DaveC
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Posts: 10
Default Configuring multiple routers?

The Comcast service comes into a Motorola cable modem (SB6121). Plugged into
the modem's Ethernet port was an Airport Extreme base station.

This provided wifi service to this small office building for more than a
year.

Now there is a need for adding to that some Ethernet capability. (Yes, the
Airport has Ethernet ports, but it is located high up where plugging in
Ethernet cables is impractical.) So...

I added a Netgear RP614v2 router, plugged it into the modem, and plugged the
Airport into the Netgear router.

Doing this killed the wifi. The Ethernet ports on the Netgear router now
work, but no wifi. (Tried different ports on the Netgear, different cables;
No joy. It's not the fault of the hardware.)

I've spent many hours trying to configure the router and the Airport so as to
bring back wifi. I presume I'm not making the right choices.

Can someone point out the basic important points re. IP addresses? For
example, the Airport configuration page says that my choices a 1. share
the WAN fixed IP address; 2. distribute IP addresses via DHCP; 3. nothing
(bridge mode). Do I want the Airport to not distribute IP addresses (bridge
mode) because the router will do that? And do I need to configure the modem's
WAN IP address to match the modem's IP? Or does this happen automatically?

A good reference to read about router configuration in general (IP addresses,
DHCP, etc.) would be a great starting point. Suggestions?

If there's a more-appropriate group in which to ask this, just say so.

Thanks.


  #2  
Old November 5th 12, 12:59 PM posted to alt.comp.networking.connectivity,alt.comp.networking.routers,uk.comp.home-networking
Henry Law
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Posts: 43
Default Configuring multiple routers?

On 05/11/12 08:14, DaveC wrote:
I added a Netgear RP614v2 router, plugged it into the modem, and plugged the
Airport into the Netgear router.

Doing this killed the wifi. The Ethernet ports on the Netgear router now
work, but no wifi. (Tried different ports on the Netgear, different cables;
No joy. It's not the fault of the hardware.)


This is hard to diagnose remotely and asynchronously. But it might help
if I go through some of the basics of what used to work and how it might
work now.

The airport controlled the modem and provided multiple IP addresses to
the LAN (both wired and wireless); it's likely therefore that it was
acting as a DHCP server and passing out addresses to attached devices.
I'm betting they were in the 192.168.1.x address range too. Upstream of
it there was a single IP address on the Comcast network; the airport was
probably doing NAT, so that all packets from attached devices looked as
if they were coming from the single Comcast IP address.

Now you've plugged in another router -- another layer of routing --
betwen the existing Airport router and the modem. That router expects
to be doing exactly what the Airport did -- DHCP, NAT and all that. And
I'd bet it is also doing it in 192.168.1.x. So it's clear that what you
have isn't going to work as it is.

What I'd suggest is this:

Configure the Netgear router as a DHCP server (almost certainly the
default), and leave its address range as whatever it is set to (probably
192.168.1.x, as I say). That should support the Ethernet ports.

Plug the Airport into one of the Ethernet sockets and configure it in
"Bridge mode", so that the network downstream of the Airport is the same
as the Netgear's. You might need to give it a fixed IP address rather
than have it get one via DHCP. If so, I suggest 192.168.1.254 to get it
out of the way of the ones allocated dynamically.

With luck, a device connecting wirelessly to the Airport will get a DHCP
address directly from Netgear and everything will go off with a roar.

Without luck there's something I've overlooked and you'll be just as
badly off as before. If that's the case, I'm sorry.


--

Henry Law Manchester, England
  #3  
Old November 5th 12, 01:43 PM posted to alt.comp.networking.connectivity,alt.comp.networking.routers,uk.comp.home-networking
Anthony R. Gold
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Posts: 361
Default Configuring multiple routers?

On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 01:14:16 -0700, DaveC wrote:

The Comcast service comes into a Motorola cable modem (SB6121). Plugged into
the modem's Ethernet port was an Airport Extreme base station.

This provided wifi service to this small office building for more than a
year.

Now there is a need for adding to that some Ethernet capability. (Yes, the
Airport has Ethernet ports, but it is located high up where plugging in
Ethernet cables is impractical.) So...

I added a Netgear RP614v2 router, plugged it into the modem, and plugged the
Airport into the Netgear router.


That was the wrong device. Use an Ethernet switch and not a second router.

Something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261120460743
  #4  
Old November 5th 12, 02:42 PM posted to alt.comp.networking.connectivity,alt.comp.networking.routers,uk.comp.home-networking
Daniel James
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Posts: 41
Default Configuring multiple routers?

In article ,
DaveC wrote:
[snip]
Now there is a need for adding to that some Ethernet capability.
(Yes, the Airport has Ethernet ports, but it is located high up where
plugging in Ethernet cables is impractical.) So...

I added a Netgear RP614v2 router, plugged it into the modem, and
plugged the Airport into the Netgear router.


It seems to me that you bought the wrong piece of kit ... all you needed
to do was to purchase a network switch (a cheap, unmanaged switch) and
connect it by means of single ethernet cable to one of the wired ports of
your Airport. You would then have been able to connect further devices
directly to the switch (which you could place in any convenient
location). Everything else would have continued to work as before.

With your current arrangement the Netgear router is managing a wired
network, and the Airport attached to it is attempting to manage a
different, subsidiary network. If you can configure the Airport so that
its own router functions are disabled and it acts merely as a switch/WAP
you may be able to get this working, but I don't think an Airport can be
used in that way(?)

Can someone point out the basic important points re. IP addresses?


Yes ... but you don't really need to mess with that stuff. Just use a
switch instead of trying to make two routers play nicely together.

If there's a more-appropriate group in which to ask this, just say so.


I think any one of the three you chose should be fine.

Cheers,
Daniel.




  #5  
Old November 5th 12, 03:29 PM posted to alt.comp.networking.connectivity,alt.comp.networking.routers,uk.comp.home-networking
DaveC
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Posts: 10
Default Configuring multiple routers?

It seems to me that you bought the wrong piece of kit ... all you needed
to do was to purchase a network switch (a cheap, unmanaged switch) and
connect it by means of single ethernet cable to one of the wired ports of
your Airport. You would then have been able to connect further devices
directly to the switch (which you could place in any convenient
location). Everything else would have continued to work as before.


I first tried a switch connected directly to the modem. It didn't work, and I
presume it was because the modem has one E port and did not provide NAT or
DHCP function. That's why I went with a router.

Modem data sheet:

http://www.secable.com/files/SB6121_Data_Sheet.pdf


  #6  
Old November 5th 12, 04:57 PM posted to alt.comp.networking.connectivity,alt.comp.networking.routers,uk.comp.home-networking
DaveC
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Posts: 10
Default Configuring multiple routers?

Running another cable to the remote Airport location is not an option.

  #7  
Old November 5th 12, 05:04 PM posted to alt.comp.networking.connectivity,alt.comp.networking.routers,uk.comp.home-networking
Henry Law
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Posts: 43
Default Configuring multiple routers?

On 05/11/12 15:29, DaveC wrote:
It seems to me that you bought the wrong piece of kit ... all you needed
to do was to purchase a network switch (a cheap, unmanaged switch) and
connect it by means of single ethernet cable to one of the wired ports of
your Airport.


I first tried a switch connected directly to the modem. It didn't work, and I
presume it was because the modem has one E port and did not provide NAT or
DHCP function. That's why I went with a router.


Ah, but you connected it to the wrong place. As Messrs Gold and James
have rightly said, if you'd connected the switch (with a cable long
enough to reach down from the ceiling to somewhere more convenient) to
one of the Ethernet ports on the Airport router (not into the modem) it
would have provided whatever-number of "downstream" ports which are part
of the original network. If you've still got that switch then that's a
better option than perservering with your Netgear box, which you could
then either sell or keep for some future use.

To explain a little, in the hopes it will help you, the modem won't
manage an Ethernet network: it doesn't know how. All it knows how to do
is to connect to Comcast and reflect its IP address (an external one, in
Comcast's network) onto a socket of some kind.

The Airport tells the modem to connect (and usually provides userid and
password and that sort of thing), and it has a router component which is
responsible for managing a separate network (with a private address
range) on its "downstream" side. In this case "managing" means handing
out addresses via DHCP, doing NAT, providing firewall functions and so on.

A switch is rather like a power strip; it plugs into one socket and then
provides multiple sockets for other devices to plug into. It's passive
(at this level of discussion at least): it doesn't do anything networky
and doesn't understand what an IP address is. And it doesn't understand
how to tell a modem what to do.


--

Henry Law Manchester, England
  #8  
Old November 5th 12, 05:11 PM posted to alt.comp.networking.connectivity,alt.comp.networking.routers,uk.comp.home-networking
Anthony R. Gold
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Posts: 361
Default Configuring multiple routers?

On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:29:03 -0700, DaveC wrote:

It seems to me that you bought the wrong piece of kit ... all you needed
to do was to purchase a network switch (a cheap, unmanaged switch) and
connect it by means of single ethernet cable to one of the wired ports of
your Airport. You would then have been able to connect further devices
directly to the switch (which you could place in any convenient
location). Everything else would have continued to work as before.


I first tried a switch connected directly to the modem. It didn't work, and I
presume it was because the modem has one E port and did not provide NAT or
DHCP function. That's why I went with a router.


The Comcast cable modem must remain connected to the WAN port of the Airport
Extreme Base station. Then connect one port of the switch to one of the LAN
ports of the Airport Extreme (using a long enough cable to allow the switch
to be placed it in a reachable location) and use the remaining ports of the
switch for the extra Ethernet capability you require.
  #9  
Old November 5th 12, 06:09 PM posted to alt.comp.networking.connectivity,alt.comp.networking.routers,uk.comp.home-networking
Henry
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Posts: 4
Default Configuring multiple routers?

Henry Law wrote:

A switch is rather like a power strip; it plugs into one socket and then
provides multiple sockets for other devices to plug into. It's passive
(at this level of discussion at least): it doesn't do anything networky
and doesn't understand what an IP address is. And it doesn't understand
how to tell a modem what to do.


Actually, what you are describing is a hub, not a switch. A switch can
be actively networky because it does differentiate amongst the IP
addresses of the various devices attached to it in order to channel
traffic to the correct machine, rather than send it along wholesale to
all the sockets.
  #10  
Old November 5th 12, 09:29 PM posted to alt.comp.networking.connectivity,alt.comp.networking.routers,uk.comp.home-networking
Henry Law
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Posts: 43
Default Configuring multiple routers?

On 05/11/12 16:57, DaveC wrote:
Running another cable to the remote Airport location is not an option.


OK, in which case leave the Netgear unit in place and configure the
Airport as a bridge. If it doesn't work then come back here; post the
results of "ipconfig /all" from a PC wirelessly connected to the Airport
(assuming you're Windows; otherwise "ifconfig" on linux. Should be
possible to help you get on the air (sorry).

--

Henry Law Manchester, England
 




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