A Broadband and ADSL forum. BroadbanterBanter

Welcome to BroadbanterBanter.

You are currently viewing as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today.

Go Back   Home » BroadbanterBanter forum » Newsgroup Discussions » uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

DNS settings



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 21st 13, 09:12 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Harry Bloomfield
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 250
Default DNS settings

My router has a primary and secondary DNS settings, as do the TCP/IP
settings on my PC's. I noticed that my laptop via wifi can seem to
serve web pages up faster and more reliably than can my desktop PC
which has a direct wired connection to the same router, so I started
looking at the desktop's settings and found its DNS settings though
valid ones, were using a different DNS server to the router.

How important is it that the PC and router should use identical
settings please? I am not yet sure whether making them the same has
fixed the issue.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


  #2  
Old January 21st 13, 09:25 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default DNS settings

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

How important is it that the PC and router should use identical
settings please?


In general not important at all .. if you had a network that did require
specific DNS settings you'd know about it.

  #3  
Old January 21st 13, 10:24 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 532
Default DNS settings

As Andy says, if it's working, it's probably not desperately
important, but to fill in a little more detail ...

Normally on a PC or similar 'client' device, DNS settings are set in
the same way as the IP address. If a dynamic IP address is being
obtained automatically via DHCP from the router, then the DNS settings
should be obtained in the same way. If the IP address is fixed, then
the DNS settings should be fixed as well. It is theoretically
possible to have one fixed and the other not, but as this is hardly
ever done in practice, most routers and PC OSs will not have been
adequately tested in this configuration, and are quite likely to fail.

It sounds as though your PC has a fixed address? If so, in both the
router and the PC, specify the DNS settings given out by your ISP. If,
as is more usual, your PC is getting an IP address from the router,
then set the DNS to do the same.

If it does have a fixed address, is there any particular reason for
this, preventing you using the more usual DHCP arrangement? What
version of what OS are you running on the PC - Windows, Linux, or
some other? Windows usually works best in DHCP mode, because NETBIOS
name calling covers for any lack of local DNS*, whereas many people
running Linux use fixed IPs and list them all in the hosts file on
each.

* DNS, Dynamic Name Serving, which translates machine names to IP
addresses, is not implemented correctly on many domestic routers.
They'll translate a name to an IP properly for the Wide Area Network
(WAN, that is, in this context, the internet), but not do the same for
any machine on the Local Area Network (LAN, in this context, your home
network). This is most probably because they have not been adequately
tested with non-Windows client PCs.

Windows transparently makes up for this by using NETBIOS over TCP/IP,
so, for example, one local Windows PC will be able to see the shares
on another local Windows PC, or the SAMBA shares on a Linux PC or NAS
unit, via NETBIOS. Hence testing only with Windows clients doesn't
show up faults in the router's local DNS implementation.

However, when a Linux PC tries to talk to another Linux PC via NFS,
there is no NETBIOS to cover for the lack of local DNS, hence the IP
address of another Linux PC cannot be found by name, because the
router isn't doing local DNS. Short of buying a decent router, the
only fix for this is to give Linux PCs fixed IPs and then create a
hosts file for each with the names and IPs of all the local Linux PCs
in it, and copy it onto each PC. I've known even Linux users become
so used to this chore that they actually think it's what is supposed
to happen, but it's not!

What is supposed to happen is that the router is supposed to attempt
to resolve names itself, which would find the local ones, and pass
upwards to the ISP's DNS server those names that it can't resolve
itself, which would find the WAN/Internet ones.

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:12:21 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

My router has a primary and secondary DNS settings, as do the TCP/IP
settings on my PC's. I noticed that my laptop via wifi can seem to
serve web pages up faster and more reliably than can my desktop PC
which has a direct wired connection to the same router

--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
  #4  
Old January 21st 13, 10:30 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bob Eager
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 177
Default DNS settings

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 10:24:25 +0000, Java Jive wrote:

* DNS, Dynamic Name Serving


or, to be correct, Domain Name Service.

What is supposed to happen is that the router is supposed to attempt to
resolve names itself, which would find the local ones, and pass upwards
to the ISP's DNS server those names that it can't resolve itself, which
would find the WAN/Internet ones.


How would you expect it to find the local ones? They would have to be put
into a router table.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me 30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
  #5  
Old January 21st 13, 10:31 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bob Eager
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 177
Default DNS settings

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:12:21 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

My router has a primary and secondary DNS settings, as do the TCP/IP
settings on my PC's. I noticed that my laptop via wifi can seem to serve
web pages up faster and more reliably than can my desktop PC which has a
direct wired connection to the same router


Part of it could be just a larger browser cache!

, so I started looking at the
desktop's settings and found its DNS settings though valid ones, were
using a different DNS server to the router.

How important is it that the PC and router should use identical settings
please? I am not yet sure whether making them the same has fixed the
issue.


Doesn't matter in the slightest as long as the different DNS servers all
work.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me 30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
  #6  
Old January 21st 13, 11:59 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 135
Default DNS settings

In article , Java Jive
wrote:
However, when a Linux PC tries to talk to another Linux PC via NFS,
there is no NETBIOS to cover for the lack of local DNS, hence the IP
address of another Linux PC cannot be found by name, because the
router isn't doing local DNS. Short of buying a decent router, the
only fix for this is to give Linux PCs fixed IPs and then create a
hosts file for each with the names and IPs of all the local Linux PCs
in it, and copy it onto each PC. I've known even Linux users become
so used to this chore that they actually think it's what is supposed
to happen, but it's not!


Thank you for clarifying my understanding of this. So far, my
experiments with Linux in the hope of maybe one day abandoning Windows
altogether have usually run into difficulties when dealing with local
sharing. Maybe the answer (or part of it) will be to go back to fixed
local IPs for any fixed computers that need to talk to each other,
leaving a DHCP range for portable things like phones and laptops.
According to Sod's Law I'll probably have the whole thing sussed just
in time for my ISP to change to IPv6.

Rod.
--

  #7  
Old January 21st 13, 12:21 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default DNS settings

On 21/01/13 10:30, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 10:24:25 +0000, Java Jive wrote:

* DNS, Dynamic Name Serving


or, to be correct, Domain Name Service.


You cant expect a self opinionated troll to know the correct name for
things.

What is supposed to happen is that the router is supposed to attempt to
resolve names itself, which would find the local ones, and pass upwards
to the ISP's DNS server those names that it can't resolve itself, which
would find the WAN/Internet ones.


How would you expect it to find the local ones? They would have to be put
into a router table.


ER no, a host table typically. Occasionally other things than DNS are on
a LAN as well.

Routing works on IP addresses ONLY.

Not names.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

  #8  
Old January 21st 13, 12:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default DNS settings

On 21/01/13 11:59, Roderick Stewart wrote:
In article , Java Jive
wrote:
However, when a Linux PC tries to talk to another Linux PC via NFS,
there is no NETBIOS to cover for the lack of local DNS, hence the IP
address of another Linux PC cannot be found by name, because the
router isn't doing local DNS. Short of buying a decent router, the
only fix for this is to give Linux PCs fixed IPs and then create a
hosts file for each with the names and IPs of all the local Linux PCs
in it, and copy it onto each PC. I've known even Linux users become
so used to this chore that they actually think it's what is supposed
to happen, but it's not!


Thank you for clarifying my understanding of this. So far, my
experiments with Linux in the hope of maybe one day abandoning Windows
altogether have usually run into difficulties when dealing with local
sharing. Maybe the answer (or part of it) will be to go back to fixed
local IPs for any fixed computers that need to talk to each other,
leaving a DHCP range for portable things like phones and laptops.
According to Sod's Law I'll probably have the whole thing sussed just
in time for my ISP to change to IPv6.

Rod.
--

Of course java idiot is showing his own lack of knowledge. You don't
need to use names to mount NFS. You can do it by numbers.

And if you are setting up a local network with linux servers, the first
thing you do is set up a local DNS server of your own to sort out that
anyway.

As far as having to assign fixed IP addresses to servers its not
different from anything else. Your router needs a fixed IP address
assigned to it too.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

  #9  
Old January 21st 13, 01:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 180
Default DNS settings

Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 10:24:25 +0000, Java Jive wrote:

* DNS, Dynamic Name Serving


or, to be correct, Domain Name Service.

What is supposed to happen is that the router is supposed to attempt to
resolve names itself, which would find the local ones, and pass upwards
to the ISP's DNS server those names that it can't resolve itself, which
would find the WAN/Internet ones.


How would you expect it to find the local ones? They would have to be put
into a router table.

When a client (PC) uses the router's DHCP server to get its IP address
it can at the same time register its name. Some routers put this name
into their local DNS cache and so can serve names on the LAN.

--
Chris Green
  #10  
Old January 21st 13, 02:42 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bob Eager
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 177
Default DNS settings

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:21:02 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 21/01/13 10:30, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 10:24:25 +0000, Java Jive wrote:

* DNS, Dynamic Name Serving


or, to be correct, Domain Name Service.


You cant expect a self opinionated troll to know the correct name for
things.

What is supposed to happen is that the router is supposed to attempt
to resolve names itself, which would find the local ones, and pass
upwards to the ISP's DNS server those names that it can't resolve
itself, which would find the WAN/Internet ones.


How would you expect it to find the local ones? They would have to be
put into a router table.


ER no, a host table typically. Occasionally other things than DNS are on
a LAN as well.

Routing works on IP addresses ONLY.

Not names.


I was responding to JJ's belief that the router could resolve names.
Which, of course, it can't, unless it has its own DNS server and a table
to power it. I said 'would' for that reason.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me 30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DNS settings on Fritz!Box Ivor Jones uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) 3 March 24th 08 07:11 PM
DNS settings on Fritz!Box Ivor Jones uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 1 March 23rd 08 11:55 AM
Routers and DNS - getting the right DNS server addresses [email protected] uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) 0 January 26th 06 09:22 PM
DNS settings with W98SE, how? Tim.. uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) 1 February 21st 05 07:38 PM
Making sense of DNS and Dynamic DNS? Tony uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) 4 February 5th 05 11:34 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright 2004-2019 BroadbanterBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.