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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Data rates on a small country exchange ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 2nd 13, 08:10 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Nick Leverton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Data rates on a small country exchange ?

Last week I was visiting someone whose phone line is on a small country
exchange near Guildford (Elstead, no LLU providers,
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/THED) and as I normally work
remotely to the office anyway, I had a good opportunity to compare their
service with what I expect at home. As a result, if I can help them
get a better ADSL service than the frankly unreliable one they have now,
I'd very much like to.

To begin with I was really surprised by how much the broadband throughput
varied throughout the course of the week and weekend. I should say at the
outset that the ADSL link was a solid 8192 Mbit/s and never dropped once,
and the SNR figures were not too shabby especially as they are only a
few hundred yards from the exchange. But the IP connectivity was a
disaster much of the time.

Their DSL router is a Netgear DGN2200 which gives separate uptimes for
the two so I can be fairly sure what was happening. I did upgrade it
to the most recent firmware also.

During weekdays the maximum data transfer I could achieve was about
300 KBytes/sec. In the evenings it dropped to below 100 KBytes/sec or
less and not infrequently paused for long periods, making online audio
difficult and video impossible.

Come the weekend, and the daytime pattern was similar, but on Fri and
Sat evening there was almost no service at all. It was so bad that even
the IP link layer kept dropping out and reconnecting. The logs (I gave
up and went to bed) showed it didn't recover and stabilise until about
2am when, presumably, everyone else in the area had also gone to bed.

However, at 8.30 on Sunday morning I discovered the line could in
fact achieve the 800+ KBytes/sec one would expect and had some nice
fast transfers. Everyone else still in bed I would infer ! As the
day progressed the maximum rate drifted back down to the 200 or 300
KBytes/sec that I'd more typically experienced.

Hence that spurred me to ask, is this typical for small exchanges of this
sort ? Or is this immense variation more likely to be down to their ISP
(Talktalk/ Tiscali) ? If it is the backhaul to the main network that's
the bottleneck, will the forthcoming upgrade of that exchange to 21CN
improve things or is that going to be subect to the same limitation ?

I'd appreciate any thoughts,

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
  #2  
Old March 2nd 13, 09:38 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
alexd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,765
Default Data rates on a small country exchange ?

Nick Leverton (for it is he) wrote:

I'd appreciate any thoughts,


I suppose I would say that what you've observed is "obvious"
[notwithstanding the fact that it wasn't obvious until you pointed it
out...] - the further out in the sticks you are, the more expensive it is to
get bandwidth, and as such, peak time congestion is going to be more
noticeable.

What you don't mention, however, is which service provider you were using.
It's easy to conclude it's the exchange's fault, but it's entirely possible
for an ISP not to buy enough capacity from their service provider [BT in
this case if no LLU] and deliver the service you've experienced. I think you
would need to test with different ISPs before concluding that it's a general
problem with the exchange.

Also, see:

http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/...1955&plugin=vp

--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
09:29:17 up 75 days, 12:01, 9 users, load average: 1.18, 1.29, 1.24
Qua illic est reprehendit, illic est a vindicatum

  #3  
Old March 2nd 13, 10:42 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 620
Default Data rates on a small country exchange ?

Nick Leverton wrote:

Hence that spurred me to ask, is this typical for small exchanges of this
sort ? Or is this immense variation more likely to be down to their ISP
(Talktalk/ Tiscali) ? If it is the backhaul to the main network that's
the bottleneck, will the forthcoming upgrade of that exchange to 21CN
improve things or is that going to be subect to the same limitation ?

I'd appreciate any thoughts,


Talktalk/Tiscali is your answer. They buy less backhaul capacity than
is needed to support their customers.

Change to a professional ISP and then keep records of download speeds
during the day and evening. If you get more than about 20& drop on the
nominal 800 kbytes/sec then complain to the ISP. You will be expected
to demonstrate that there is no WiFi connection being hijacked by a
neighbour; and that there is no malware traffic emanating from any PC on
the LAN; after that a professional ISP such as A&A or Zen should be able
to resolve any throughput problem.


--
Graham J




  #4  
Old March 2nd 13, 10:43 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Gordon Henderson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 797
Default Data rates on a small country exchange ?

In article ,
Nick Leverton wrote:

.... Or is this immense variation more likely to be down to their ISP
(Talktalk/ Tiscali) ? ....


I'd appreciate any thoughts,


You get what you pay for.

Gordon
  #5  
Old March 2nd 13, 12:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Data rates on a small country exchange ?

On 02/03/13 08:10, Nick Leverton wrote:


Hence that spurred me to ask, is this typical for small exchanges of this
sort ? Or is this immense variation more likely to be down to their ISP
(Talktalk/ Tiscali) ?


Th elatter. Tiscali are ****e.

Its classic 'we dont have the backhaul'

I am on a small country exchange, syncing at around 6Mbps and that's
damn near what I get all the time.

Cos I have IDnet, and pay for it.


If it is the backhaul to the main network that's
the bottleneck, will the forthcoming upgrade of that exchange to 21CN
improve things or is that going to be subect to the same limitation ?


Not unless Tiscali buy space on it.

I'd appreciate any thoughts,

Nick



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

  #6  
Old March 2nd 13, 01:16 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
alexd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,765
Default Data rates on a small country exchange ?

alexd (for it is he) wrote:

What you don't mention, however, is which service provider you were using.


Apart from where you said Tiscali, of course.

--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
13:16:25 up 75 days, 15:48, 9 users, load average: 0.95, 1.00, 1.05
Qua illic est reprehendit, illic est a vindicatum

  #7  
Old March 2nd 13, 09:32 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alex Heney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,607
Default Data rates on a small country exchange ?

On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 08:10:08 +0000 (UTC), Nick Leverton
wrote:

snip

Hence that spurred me to ask, is this typical for small exchanges of this
sort ? Or is this immense variation more likely to be down to their ISP
(Talktalk/ Tiscali) ?


Very probably the ISP.

From everything I have heard of Talk Talk (and my experience of them
as a phone supplier - now ended thank god), they haven't yet built a
bargepole long enough to not touch them with for broadband.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
The brain you have reached is out of order at this time.
To reply by email, my address is alexDOTheneyATgmailDOTcom
  #8  
Old March 3rd 13, 12:25 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Phil W Lee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 482
Default Data rates on a small country exchange ?

Graham J [email protected] considered Sat, 02 Mar 2013 10:42:04 +0000
the perfect time to write:

Nick Leverton wrote:

Hence that spurred me to ask, is this typical for small exchanges of this
sort ? Or is this immense variation more likely to be down to their ISP
(Talktalk/ Tiscali) ? If it is the backhaul to the main network that's
the bottleneck, will the forthcoming upgrade of that exchange to 21CN
improve things or is that going to be subect to the same limitation ?

I'd appreciate any thoughts,


Talktalk/Tiscali is your answer. They buy less backhaul capacity than
is needed to support their customers.

Change to a professional ISP and then keep records of download speeds
during the day and evening. If you get more than about 20& drop on the
nominal 800 kbytes/sec then complain to the ISP. You will be expected
to demonstrate that there is no WiFi connection being hijacked by a
neighbour; and that there is no malware traffic emanating from any PC on
the LAN; after that a professional ISP such as A&A or Zen should be able
to resolve any throughput problem.


Both I and a friend experienced exactly this problem, at different
times, and on different exchanges. We both ended up with Tiscali due
to the acquisition of Nildram, who had been a decent provider until
takeover. In both cases our connection was fine for some time after
the takeover, but deteriorated after the network was merged into the
Tiscali one (in my case) and the TT one (in his).
I solved my problem by moving to Zen, he by moving to A&A.
Which works better depends on your usage profile, and whether IPv6 is
important to you.
You get what you pay for, and cheap broadband means that "economies"
have to be made somewhere. ANd how do you think they pay for
advertising?
  #9  
Old March 3rd 13, 12:29 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Phil W Lee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 482
Default Data rates on a small country exchange ?

The Natural Philosopher considered Sat, 02 Mar
2013 12:11:51 +0000 the perfect time to write:

On 02/03/13 08:10, Nick Leverton wrote:


Hence that spurred me to ask, is this typical for small exchanges of this
sort ? Or is this immense variation more likely to be down to their ISP
(Talktalk/ Tiscali) ?


Th elatter. Tiscali are ****e.

Its classic 'we dont have the backhaul'

I am on a small country exchange, syncing at around 6Mbps and that's
damn near what I get all the time.

Cos I have IDnet, and pay for it.

Yes, same with me and Zen, or my mate in the deepest wilds of Suffolk,
and on A&A - we can both flatline our connections at line speed any
time we need to.

If it is the backhaul to the main network that's
the bottleneck, will the forthcoming upgrade of that exchange to 21CN
improve things or is that going to be subect to the same limitation ?


Not unless Tiscali buy space on it.


Part of TT now, but still Oink, Flap

I'd appreciate any thoughts,

Nick

  #10  
Old March 3rd 13, 12:49 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Data rates on a small country exchange ?

On 03/03/13 00:29, Phil W Lee wrote:
The Natural Philosopher considered Sat, 02 Mar
2013 12:11:51 +0000 the perfect time to write:

On 02/03/13 08:10, Nick Leverton wrote:


Hence that spurred me to ask, is this typical for small exchanges of this
sort ? Or is this immense variation more likely to be down to their ISP
(Talktalk/ Tiscali) ?


Th elatter. Tiscali are ****e.

Its classic 'we dont have the backhaul'

I am on a small country exchange, syncing at around 6Mbps and that's
damn near what I get all the time.

Cos I have IDnet, and pay for it.

Yes, same with me and Zen, or my mate in the deepest wilds of Suffolk,
and on A&A - we can both flatline our connections at line speed any
time we need to.

If it is the backhaul to the main network that's
the bottleneck, will the forthcoming upgrade of that exchange to 21CN
improve things or is that going to be subect to the same limitation ?


Not unless Tiscali buy space on it.


Part of TT now, but still Oink, Flap


The fact is that a lot of people are perfectly happy with a crap service
at cut price rates that will allow them to look at a few websites and
pick up a bit of mail.

I'm not. My 'virtual server in a dark office somewhere in docklands' is
an integral part of my private network.

Its a shared drive. I want to be able to get raw speed.

I have noted that when burning some locally networked DVD images I was
saturating the 100Mps LAN connection. I saturate my ADSL too, in both
directions. Large updates are coming down at 5-6Mpbs ..

IN the end its horses for courses. If you want performance, expect to
pay more.

I'd rather make sure my money is going to a bunch of people in Hemel
Hempstead who listen to me when I phone, than a bunch of geeks in
Bangalore who assume I am a clueless ****wit using Windows, or a bunch
of media tarts making prime time TV adverts.

YMMV.



I'd appreciate any thoughts,

Nick



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

 




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