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Nokia 808 VOIP and keep-alive process for NAT etc



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 22nd 13, 09:16 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Peter
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Posts: 330
Default Nokia 808 VOIP and keep-alive process for NAT etc

I don't know if anybody here has come across this.

The background is here
http://www.developer.nokia.com/Commu...012#post914012

Basically the Nokia VOIP app *appears to be* broken in that it doesn't
keep-alive the session, so while outgoing calls work, incoming calls
(via a purchased geographical number, typically) don't work because

a) the router shuts off the NAT hole after a few minutes (180 secs on
the Draytek 2955)

b) even opening port 5060 (VOIP signalling) and forwarding it to a
phone on wifi with a fixed IP (kind of useless for a MOBILE phone )
doesn't solve it because the SIP provider chops the inactive session
after maybe 30 mins.

Obviously commercial VOIP products solve this, but I gather from the
SIP provider I am using (DID Logic) that even the Iphone doesn't have
a VOIP app on which incoming calls work. Strange, since the VOIP RFCs
specify a keep alive process exactly for this purpose, and the Nokia
has a config for the timeouts etc.
  #2  
Old March 22nd 13, 07:35 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
alexd
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Posts: 1,765
Default Nokia 808 VOIP and keep-alive process for NAT etc

Peter (for it is he) wrote:

a) the router shuts off the NAT hole after a few minutes (180 secs on
the Draytek 2955)


How about re-registering every 2 minutes [ie less than the NAT session timer
on your router]? Is that controllable on the client?

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19:32:25 up 7 days, 11:28, 3 users, load average: 0.62, 0.70, 0.68
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  #3  
Old March 22nd 13, 09:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Peter
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Posts: 330
Default Nokia 808 VOIP and keep-alive process for NAT etc


alexd wrote

Peter (for it is he) wrote:

a) the router shuts off the NAT hole after a few minutes (180 secs on
the Draytek 2955)


How about re-registering every 2 minutes [ie less than the NAT session timer
on your router]? Is that controllable on the client?


Yes that would work but there is no way to do it automatically. You
would have to sit there all day

Nokia should have implemented the relevant keep-alive timer which is
in the VOIP RFCs.
  #4  
Old March 22nd 13, 10:29 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Theo Markettos
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Posts: 539
Default Nokia 808 VOIP and keep-alive process for NAT etc

In uk.telecom.mobile Peter wrote:
Basically the Nokia VOIP app *appears to be* broken in that it doesn't
keep-alive the session, so while outgoing calls work, incoming calls
(via a purchased geographical number, typically) don't work because

a) the router shuts off the NAT hole after a few minutes (180 secs on
the Draytek 2955)

b) even opening port 5060 (VOIP signalling) and forwarding it to a
phone on wifi with a fixed IP (kind of useless for a MOBILE phone )
doesn't solve it because the SIP provider chops the inactive session
after maybe 30 mins.


Is this specifically a VOIP thing, or more generally? My phone (ZTE Blade,
aka Orange San Francisco) powers down the wifi chip when idle, which means
it's no longer accessible remotely by any means. It isn't woken
periodically to see if there's any packets for it. Apparently this is fixed
in the hardware - kernel hackers have been unable to work around it. The
only workaround is to prod the wifi so it's permanently on - but then
battery life is terrible.

Theo
  #5  
Old March 22nd 13, 11:21 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Peter
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Posts: 330
Default Nokia 808 VOIP and keep-alive process for NAT etc


Theo Markettos wrote

In uk.telecom.mobile Peter wrote:
Basically the Nokia VOIP app *appears to be* broken in that it doesn't
keep-alive the session, so while outgoing calls work, incoming calls
(via a purchased geographical number, typically) don't work because

a) the router shuts off the NAT hole after a few minutes (180 secs on
the Draytek 2955)

b) even opening port 5060 (VOIP signalling) and forwarding it to a
phone on wifi with a fixed IP (kind of useless for a MOBILE phone )
doesn't solve it because the SIP provider chops the inactive session
after maybe 30 mins.


Is this specifically a VOIP thing, or more generally? My phone (ZTE Blade,
aka Orange San Francisco) powers down the wifi chip when idle, which means
it's no longer accessible remotely by any means. It isn't woken
periodically to see if there's any packets for it. Apparently this is fixed
in the hardware - kernel hackers have been unable to work around it. The
only workaround is to prod the wifi so it's permanently on - but then
battery life is terrible.


It affects VOIP in the sense that VOIP is the only service one might
want to run on a *phone* which needs incoming data, which could arrive
at any time.

It's the same with a web server, but one isn't going to be running
that on a phone

I cannot see any solution other than a keep-alive mechanism of some
kind, and the VOIP RFCs define such a thing.

What is perhaps suprising is that for it to be useful it needs to be
quite frequent - enough to stop a NAT hole closing in the router. So
the drain on the phone battery may be significant, and the mobile data
usage (if on 3G) will be significant too.

Obviously I am teaching you to suck eggs, but the "holy grail" of VOIP
on a mobile phone is IMHO

1) buy a geographical #
2) present that # on outgoing VOIP calls
3) map that # to generate incoming calls to your VOIP account
4) set up call forwarding on your real GSM mobile #, to the
geographical #

Then you end up with a mobile phone on a geographical number, with
calls costing peanuts. And you can be on wifi (with no GSM) or 3G and
it all "just works"

With a phone, setting up 1) and 2) and 3) is trivial. I use DID Logic
- PAYG and works great.

The problem is that incoming calls don't work.

So the best thing one can achieve with a phone is *outgoing* calls
only.

4) is just optional and actually you could just use a data-only SIM in
the phone, because the SIM # is irrelevant... The cellular companies
must love this.
  #6  
Old March 23rd 13, 12:07 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
R. Mark Clayton
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Posts: 699
Default Nokia 808 VOIP and keep-alive process for NAT etc


"Peter" wrote in message
...
I don't know if anybody here has come across this.

The background is here
http://www.developer.nokia.com/Commu...012#post914012

Basically the Nokia VOIP app *appears to be* broken in that it doesn't
keep-alive the session, so while outgoing calls work, incoming calls
(via a purchased geographical number, typically) don't work because

a) the router shuts off the NAT hole after a few minutes (180 secs on
the Draytek 2955)

b) even opening port 5060 (VOIP signalling) and forwarding it to a
phone on wifi with a fixed IP (kind of useless for a MOBILE phone )
doesn't solve it because the SIP provider chops the inactive session
after maybe 30 mins.

Obviously commercial VOIP products solve this, but I gather from the
SIP provider I am using (DID Logic) that even the Iphone doesn't have
a VOIP app on which incoming calls work. Strange, since the VOIP RFCs
specify a keep alive process exactly for this purpose, and the Nokia
has a config for the timeouts etc.


I don't have an 808, but run Voip on an N8.

It usually stays alive on wi-fi, but if you drop out of coverage the link is
transferred to 3G and generally stays there.

The main advantage is that the application is native on the phone, so works
in the address book etc. OTOH you can't conference a mobile call and a VOIP
call.


  #7  
Old March 23rd 13, 07:05 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Peter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 330
Default Nokia 808 VOIP and keep-alive process for NAT etc


"R. Mark Clayton" wrote


"Peter" wrote in message
.. .
I don't know if anybody here has come across this.

The background is here
http://www.developer.nokia.com/Commu...012#post914012

Basically the Nokia VOIP app *appears to be* broken in that it doesn't
keep-alive the session, so while outgoing calls work, incoming calls
(via a purchased geographical number, typically) don't work because

a) the router shuts off the NAT hole after a few minutes (180 secs on
the Draytek 2955)

b) even opening port 5060 (VOIP signalling) and forwarding it to a
phone on wifi with a fixed IP (kind of useless for a MOBILE phone )
doesn't solve it because the SIP provider chops the inactive session
after maybe 30 mins.

Obviously commercial VOIP products solve this, but I gather from the
SIP provider I am using (DID Logic) that even the Iphone doesn't have
a VOIP app on which incoming calls work. Strange, since the VOIP RFCs
specify a keep alive process exactly for this purpose, and the Nokia
has a config for the timeouts etc.


I don't have an 808, but run Voip on an N8.

It usually stays alive on wi-fi, but if you drop out of coverage the link is
transferred to 3G and generally stays there.


I wonder how that works.

Are you using the Nokia VOIP app, or some other app?

It could well be that some 3rd party app does have a working
keep-alive process.

The fact that it transfers wifi - 3G suggests that something is
re-doing the login periodically.

The main advantage is that the application is native on the phone, so works
in the address book etc.


Yes; the Nokia app does that. You get an extra entry in the address
book, for every person in there, with the VOIP option.

OTOH you can't conference a mobile call and a VOIP
call.


I am trying to get my head around that one
  #8  
Old March 23rd 13, 11:11 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
alexd
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Posts: 1,765
Default Nokia 808 VOIP and keep-alive process for NAT etc

Peter (for it is he) wrote:

alexd wrote


How about re-registering every 2 minutes [ie less than the NAT session
timer on your router]? Is that controllable on the client?


Yes that would work but there is no way to do it automatically. You
would have to sit there all day


I [obviously?] didn't mean doing it manually. I meant the expiry timer, at
which point the user-agent re-registers with the server. For example on my
Linksys ATA it's called "Reg Max Expires", on a Cisco 7941 it's
timerRegisterExpires, etc.

--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
11:02:07 up 8 days, 2:58, 4 users, load average: 0.92, 0.90, 0.77
Qua illic est reprehendit, illic est a vindicatum

  #9  
Old March 23rd 13, 11:54 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Michael Chare
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Posts: 60
Default Nokia 808 VOIP and keep-alive process for NAT etc

On 22/03/2013 09:16, Peter wrote:

From the pictures I have found of the Nokia Bell, it appears to be
Symbian made to look like Android!

The Nokia VOIP application on my Nokia E66 stays active, via the various
Speedtouch/Thomson routers that I have had. The phone is normally on
charge when at home.

The Sipdroid application on my Android phone also appears to stay active.


--
Michael Chare
  #10  
Old March 23rd 13, 04:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Invalid
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Nokia 808 VOIP and keep-alive process for NAT etc

In message , Michael
Chare writes
On 22/03/2013 09:16, Peter wrote:

From the pictures I have found of the Nokia Bell, it appears to be
Symbian made to look like Android!

The Nokia VOIP application on my Nokia E66 stays active, via the
various Speedtouch/Thomson routers that I have had. The phone is
normally on charge when at home.

The Sipdroid application on my Android phone also appears to stay active.


I'm using Tu Go from O2.

It's not what you are looking for, but it is VOIP from my phone to O2's
server from whence it looks like a mobile phone call.

Keep alive certainly seems to work as I leave it on at home (where there
is NO mobile signal only WiFi) and it picks up incoming calls and texts
just fine.
--
Invalid
 




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