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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Fibre on demand vs virgin media



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 12th 13, 05:29 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Hills
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 96
Default Fibre on demand vs virgin media

Apparently VM are trialling 200mbs speeds, as well as the installation
of proper fibre into new builds. With Openreach allowing ISP's to order
a fibre service (initially 330/30 Mbs), they will have some decent
competition on their hands. I am disappointed that vm have no plans to
start a proper fibre service to existing customers.
  #2  
Old April 13th 13, 09:05 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 568
Default Fibre on demand vs virgin media

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:29:14 +0100, Chris Hills
wrote:

Apparently VM are trialling 200mbs speeds, as well as the installation
of proper fibre into new builds. With Openreach allowing ISP's to order
a fibre service (initially 330/30 Mbs), they will have some decent
competition on their hands. I am disappointed that vm have no plans to
start a proper fibre service to existing customers.


How could anybody in a typical domestic situation possible use a
200Mb/s internet connection? It'd be like having your front drive
upgraded to a 6 lane motorway, but with no changes being made to the
small side road or cul-de-sac it connects to. And even if we could
each have the equivalent of our own personal sliproad straight onto
the motorway, how much difference would it really make? How many
million emails would we have to send at once to notice the difference
between the three seconds or three milliseconds it might take to get
them off our PCs and into the system? How quickly can you read he
contents of a web page before you need to click for the next one? How
many high definition videos is it possible to watch at once?

Rod.
  #3  
Old April 13th 13, 12:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
the dog from that film you saw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Fibre on demand vs virgin media

On 13/04/2013 09:05, Roderick Stewart wrote:

How could anybody in a typical domestic situation possible use a
200Mb/s internet connection? It'd be like having your front drive
upgraded to a 6 lane motorway, but with no changes being made to the
small side road or cul-de-sac it connects to. And even if we could
each have the equivalent of our own personal sliproad straight onto
the motorway, how much difference would it really make? How many
million emails would we have to send at once to notice the difference
between the three seconds or three milliseconds it might take to get
them off our PCs and into the system? How quickly can you read he
contents of a web page before you need to click for the next one? How
many high definition videos is it possible to watch at once?

Rod.



in an ideal situation your internet speed should be fast enough that
everything is instant.
downloading a HD movie? - download it as fast as you can stream it from
your hard drive.
sending a home movie to a relative that you recorded in 4k on your high
quality camera? - click and it's there as you're speaking to them on the
phone.
want to watch ultra hd? - not enough space on the broadcast spectrum,
deliver it via the internet.
bill gates once though 640k memory was enough.

--
Gareth.
That fly.... Is your magic wand.
  #4  
Old April 13th 13, 01:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
tigger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Fibre on demand vs virgin media

The Natural Philosopher writted thus:


And even their data belongs to you then.


Surely you men your data belongs to them?
I would hate the idea of a centralised OS and just having a monitor and
keyboard...
Putting everything you own in the way of data in the cloud means that
sooner or later you will lose control of it, either by contract or theft.



--
Dropbox. Sign up for free! http://db.tt/ybn2BXUD
  #5  
Old April 13th 13, 02:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 568
Default Fibre on demand vs virgin media

On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:21:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


Apparently VM are trialling 200mbs speeds, as well as the installation
of proper fibre into new builds. With Openreach allowing ISP's to order
a fibre service (initially 330/30 Mbs), they will have some decent
competition on their hands. I am disappointed that vm have no plans to
start a proper fibre service to existing customers.

How could anybody in a typical domestic situation possible use a
200Mb/s internet connection?


[...]
It means the end of the windows PC model where to get performance
everyone had to have a computer and a LOT of software. the more
bandwidth you have the easier it is to plunk the software centrally
where trained men in white coats can look after it, and then let the
plebby users just have a display device of some sort.


In other words, you keep all your stuff on someone else's computer
where it's out of your control because you don't know where it is or
who has access to it, and you only have access to it yourself as long
as you pay? I'm sure the companies who would provide this "service"
love the idea, but as far as I'm concerned, thanks, but no thanks. I'd
rather look after my own stuff myself, as I've been doing all my life.
I have books, folders, tapes, films, photos, disks etc that have been
sitting on shelves or in boxes at no cost at all, and I know where
they are.

Rod.
  #6  
Old April 13th 13, 03:04 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 568
Default Fibre on demand vs virgin media

On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:49:14 +0100, the dog from that film you saw
wrote:

in an ideal situation your internet speed should be fast enough that
everything is instant.


Why?

downloading a HD movie? - download it as fast as you can stream it from
your hard drive.


What's the point of downloading a movie faster than you can watch it?

sending a home movie to a relative that you recorded in 4k on your high
quality camera? - click and it's there as you're speaking to them on the
phone.


Same question as above. I suppose we'll get into the habit of doing
these things if they become possible, just *because* they're possible,
but that doesn't mean there's a real need. How are we better off being
able to receive "anything" faster than we are capable of using it?

Rod.
  #7  
Old April 13th 13, 03:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Fibre on demand vs virgin media

On 13/04/13 14:49, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:21:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Apparently VM are trialling 200mbs speeds, as well as the installation
of proper fibre into new builds. With Openreach allowing ISP's to order
a fibre service (initially 330/30 Mbs), they will have some decent
competition on their hands. I am disappointed that vm have no plans to
start a proper fibre service to existing customers.
How could anybody in a typical domestic situation possible use a
200Mb/s internet connection?

[...]
It means the end of the windows PC model where to get performance
everyone had to have a computer and a LOT of software. the more
bandwidth you have the easier it is to plunk the software centrally
where trained men in white coats can look after it, and then let the
plebby users just have a display device of some sort.

In other words, you keep all your stuff on someone else's computer
where it's out of your control because you don't know where it is or
who has access to it, and you only have access to it yourself as long
as you pay? I'm sure the companies who would provide this "service"
love the idea, but as far as I'm concerned, thanks, but no thanks. I'd
rather look after my own stuff myself, as I've been doing all my life.
I have books, folders, tapes, films, photos, disks etc that have been
sitting on shelves or in boxes at no cost at all, and I know where
they are.


well I take that view too, certainly. I do use a cloud, but its MY
cloud. And you can get off of it...:-)
But few of the youngsters and the computer illiterati can be bothered to
do that. They want a THING that DOES VIDEOS, STORES MY TEDIOUS PICTURES
and ANYTHUING I WRITE so they can wander around and document their
increasingly empty lives in more and more tedious detail, secure in the
knowledge that even if its only MI5 reading it, at least SOMEONE has
noticed they actually exist..

Its part of the death of the personal computer with Windows.

If you actually need a desktop, its now called a 'workstation; and there
is almost no reason to run windows on it at all. Its a shrinking market,
and one increasingly dominated by Linux, because there is **** all money
in it for Microsoft or Apple.

The new game is fondleslabs and servers. "the cloud". And fast
connectivity from anywhere.


Rod.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

  #8  
Old April 13th 13, 03:35 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Fibre on demand vs virgin media

On 13/04/13 15:04, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:49:14 +0100, the dog from that film you saw
wrote:

in an ideal situation your internet speed should be fast enough that
everything is instant.

Why?

downloading a HD movie? - download it as fast as you can stream it from
your hard drive.

What's the point of downloading a movie faster than you can watch it?

So you can store it somewhere and watch it later, offline?

sending a home movie to a relative that you recorded in 4k on your high
quality camera? - click and it's there as you're speaking to them on the
phone.

Same question as above. I suppose we'll get into the habit of doing
these things if they become possible, just *because* they're possible,
but that doesn't mean there's a real need. How are we better off being
able to receive "anything" faster than we are capable of using it?


What you find, - and I've watched IT grow from glass terminals on
minicomputers, to what it is, that massive advances in performance lead
to different *ways* of doing things.

To te point where the PC in a corporate sense ONLY EXISTED because high
speed networking was not available.. word processing of the wysiwyg sort
and spreadsheets relied on local processing power and a lot of it - and
fast access to local storage.

Subsitute fast access to remote storage, and there is no point in having
local storage at all. Its far more efficient to backup one superstore
than 100,000 local pc hard drives.

Then look again at the client server model. The reason we have windowing
done locally, is becasue the bandwith needed to drive the pixels is
very very large, as is the CPU power.

200Mbps isn't enough to drive a proper windowing system yet, so we still
need to have something like an X server or an active broswer running as
s 'thicker client' - but we don't need the local STORAGE. That means
that the client can be cheaper. Android + 'apps' is just a slightly
thicker client - thats all.

This is perfect as a model for many corporate applications, because they
corporation owns the data. Its also perfect for total numpties that
simply want to access consumer content and blather.

The PC was originally developed as a home hobby toy, them by IBM as a
way to leverage its data storage. The wheel turns full circle. No one
needs a PC anymore. They either need a WORKSTATION - an independent unit
doing massive crunching to generate images, applications or words using
specialised applications, or they need a fondleslab, to access that data.

High speed networking simply makes that easier to get acceptable
performance out of.


Rod.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

  #9  
Old April 13th 13, 05:42 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 210
Default Fibre on demand vs virgin media

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:29:14 +0100, Chris Hills
wrote:

Apparently VM are trialling 200mbs speeds, as well as the installation
of proper fibre into new builds. With Openreach allowing ISP's to order
a fibre service (initially 330/30 Mbs), they will have some decent
competition on their hands. I am disappointed that vm have no plans to
start a proper fibre service to existing customers.


Unlike new customers, existing ones are already won.
--

:: Jim ::

I survived Thatcher )

Let the world now rejoice - she is no more !
  #10  
Old April 13th 13, 05:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 210
Default Fibre on demand vs virgin media

On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 14:49:20 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

In other words, you keep all your stuff on someone else's computer
where it's out of your control because you don't know where it is or
who has access to it,


They can't access it if you encrypt it at source.

and you only have access to it yourself as long
as you pay? I'm sure the companies who would provide this "service"
love the idea, but as far as I'm concerned, thanks, but no thanks. I'd
rather look after my own stuff myself, as I've been doing all my life.
I have books, folders, tapes, films, photos, disks etc that have been
sitting on shelves or in boxes at no cost at all, and I know where
they are.


All well and good until you house burns down.

--

:: Jim ::

I survived Thatcher )

Let the world now rejoice - she is no more !
 




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