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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Intermittent ADSL fault



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 14th 13, 06:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 620
Default Intermittent ADSL fault

BT engineeer spent all afternoon on site, repaired two joints at top of
poles.

Connections can stay up for 15 or 20 minutes at 8128k download, 10dBSNR
margin, 19dm loop attenuation; then become intermittent, not staying up
for more than two or three minutes, and showing 160k download, 18 dB SNR
margin, 37 db loop attenuation.

Engineer suspects that there are more HR joints but his TDR does give
any indications as to where. Several of the poles carrying the cables
are unsafe to climb, so visual inspection not possible.

I suggested engineer should replace DSLAM in the exchange, but engineer
still thinks fault is a noisy joint somewhere. There are no spare pairs
to the site, so swapping to a different pair is not possible.

I am worried that the engineer had no better tools to help him do his
job. The quiet line monitor has to be restarted every 5 minutes, and
there's apparently no automated mechanism to record line noise and ADSL
disconnections over a useful period - say a week (since last week we had
4 days of uninterrupted service). TDR cannot be used at the same time
as ADSL router, so impossible to relate ADSL failures to changes in line
characteristics.

ISP is Plusnet. Is there anybody that Plusnet can send to the site who
has tools which will allow proper diagnosis and repair?

--
Graham J



  #2  
Old June 14th 13, 09:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
George Weston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 467
Default Intermittent ADSL fault

On 14/06/2013 18:02, Graham J wrote:
BT engineeer spent all afternoon on site, repaired two joints at top of
poles.

Connections can stay up for 15 or 20 minutes at 8128k download, 10dBSNR
margin, 19dm loop attenuation; then become intermittent, not staying up
for more than two or three minutes, and showing 160k download, 18 dB SNR
margin, 37 db loop attenuation.

Engineer suspects that there are more HR joints but his TDR does give
any indications as to where. Several of the poles carrying the cables
are unsafe to climb, so visual inspection not possible.

I suggested engineer should replace DSLAM in the exchange, but engineer
still thinks fault is a noisy joint somewhere. There are no spare pairs
to the site, so swapping to a different pair is not possible.

I am worried that the engineer had no better tools to help him do his
job. The quiet line monitor has to be restarted every 5 minutes, and
there's apparently no automated mechanism to record line noise and ADSL
disconnections over a useful period - say a week (since last week we had
4 days of uninterrupted service). TDR cannot be used at the same time as
ADSL router, so impossible to relate ADSL failures to changes in line
characteristics.

ISP is Plusnet. Is there anybody that Plusnet can send to the site who
has tools which will allow proper diagnosis and repair?

Plusnet will book another visit by BT Openreach if they think the job
hasn't been carried out thoroughly enough. They don't have their own
engineers, as they use the Openreach network exclusively.
It would be best for you to raise this as a fault-ticket directly with
Plusnet if you haven't already done so and/or to copy your post to
Plusnet's own newsgroup plusnet.service.customer-feedback (this is only
available to Plusnet customers via their own news-server, news.plus.net )

  #3  
Old June 14th 13, 09:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
kráftéé
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,765
Default Intermittent ADSL fault


"Graham J" [email protected] wrote in message
...
BT engineeer spent all afternoon on site, repaired two joints at top of
poles.

Connections can stay up for 15 or 20 minutes at 8128k download, 10dBSNR
margin, 19dm loop attenuation; then become intermittent, not staying up
for more than two or three minutes, and showing 160k download, 18 dB SNR
margin, 37 db loop attenuation.

Engineer suspects that there are more HR joints but his TDR does give any
indications as to where. Several of the poles carrying the cables are
unsafe to climb, so visual inspection not possible.

I suggested engineer should replace DSLAM in the exchange, but engineer
still thinks fault is a noisy joint somewhere. There are no spare pairs
to the site, so swapping to a different pair is not possible.

I am worried that the engineer had no better tools to help him do his job.
The quiet line monitor has to be restarted every 5 minutes, and there's
apparently no automated mechanism to record line noise and ADSL
disconnections over a useful period - say a week (since last week we had 4
days of uninterrupted service). TDR cannot be used at the same time as
ADSL router, so impossible to relate ADSL failures to changes in line
characteristics.

ISP is Plusnet. Is there anybody that Plusnet can send to the site who
has tools which will allow proper diagnosis and repair?


Firstly if the engineer has been properly kitted out he will have a piece of
equipment which can be used to search for HR connections, in fact there is a
pull down menu for just that and so far I have found it to be quite
accurate. Whether he has been fully trained, or had the 120 minutes behind
the local exchange version of training is another matter entirely.

Secondly there is a automatic 24 hour monitor on your line, now whether the
engineer can get to it or Plusnet are keeping it to themselves (as some
other ISPs do) is another matter. It's been quite some time since I've had
reason to work on a Plusnet line so I'm afraid I can't remember but the
facility is there now whether the ISP or (if the) engineer can understand
the readout is another matter entirely.

So the facilities are in place it's finding the someone who can use them
which is the problem.

  #4  
Old June 14th 13, 09:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Phil W Lee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 482
Default Intermittent ADSL fault

Graham J [email protected] considered Fri, 14 Jun 2013 18:02:05 +0100
the perfect time to write:

BT engineeer spent all afternoon on site, repaired two joints at top of
poles.

Connections can stay up for 15 or 20 minutes at 8128k download, 10dBSNR
margin, 19dm loop attenuation; then become intermittent, not staying up
for more than two or three minutes, and showing 160k download, 18 dB SNR
margin, 37 db loop attenuation.

Engineer suspects that there are more HR joints but his TDR does give
any indications as to where. Several of the poles carrying the cables
are unsafe to climb, so visual inspection not possible.

I suggested engineer should replace DSLAM in the exchange, but engineer
still thinks fault is a noisy joint somewhere. There are no spare pairs
to the site, so swapping to a different pair is not possible.

I am worried that the engineer had no better tools to help him do his
job. The quiet line monitor has to be restarted every 5 minutes, and
there's apparently no automated mechanism to record line noise and ADSL
disconnections over a useful period - say a week (since last week we had
4 days of uninterrupted service). TDR cannot be used at the same time
as ADSL router, so impossible to relate ADSL failures to changes in line
characteristics.

ISP is Plusnet. Is there anybody that Plusnet can send to the site who
has tools which will allow proper diagnosis and repair?


I'd be surprised if Bob Pullen (of Plusnet Customer Support) doesn't
pop up soon to enquire what the ticket number is, so that he can chase
if for you.

If you repost with "Plusnet" in the subject line, it'd pretty much
guarantee it.
  #5  
Old June 14th 13, 09:59 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default Intermittent ADSL fault

Phil W Lee wrote:

I'd be surprised if Bob Pullen (of Plusnet Customer Support) doesn't
pop up soon


When he's back from holidays ...


  #6  
Old June 15th 13, 12:08 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Davey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 585
Default Intermittent ADSL fault

On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 21:00:18 +0100
George Weston wrote:

On 14/06/2013 18:02, Graham J wrote:
BT engineeer spent all afternoon on site, repaired two joints at
top of poles.

snip


Plusnet will book another visit by BT Openreach if they think the job
hasn't been carried out thoroughly enough. They don't have their own
engineers, as they use the Openreach network exclusively.
It would be best for you to raise this as a fault-ticket directly
with Plusnet if you haven't already done so and/or to copy your post
to Plusnet's own newsgroup plusnet.service.customer-feedback (this is
only available to Plusnet customers via their own news-server,
news.plus.net )


Presumably the Openreach engineer was there as a result of a Plusnet
complaint passed on from the OP? If not, what was he doing there? This
sounds like a complaint to Plusnet that has not yet been fixed by its
subcontractor BT Openreach.
--
Davey.
  #7  
Old June 15th 13, 01:33 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 876
Default Intermittent ADSL fault

On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 00:08:38 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 21:00:18 +0100
George Weston wrote:

On 14/06/2013 18:02, Graham J wrote:
BT engineeer spent all afternoon on site, repaired two joints at
top of poles.

snip


Plusnet will book another visit by BT Openreach if they think the job
hasn't been carried out thoroughly enough. They don't have their own
engineers, as they use the Openreach network exclusively.
It would be best for you to raise this as a fault-ticket directly
with Plusnet if you haven't already done so and/or to copy your post
to Plusnet's own newsgroup plusnet.service.customer-feedback (this is
only available to Plusnet customers via their own news-server,
news.plus.net )


Presumably the Openreach engineer was there as a result of a Plusnet
complaint passed on from the OP? If not, what was he doing there? This
sounds like a complaint to Plusnet that has not yet been fixed by its
subcontractor BT Openreach.



--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%
  #8  
Old June 15th 13, 01:40 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 876
Default Intermittent ADSL fault

On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 01:33:35 +0100, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 00:08:38 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 21:00:18 +0100
George Weston wrote:

On 14/06/2013 18:02, Graham J wrote:
BT engineeer spent all afternoon on site, repaired two joints at
top of poles.

snip


Plusnet will book another visit by BT Openreach if they think the job
hasn't been carried out thoroughly enough. They don't have their own
engineers, as they use the Openreach network exclusively.
It would be best for you to raise this as a fault-ticket directly
with Plusnet if you haven't already done so and/or to copy your post
to Plusnet's own newsgroup plusnet.service.customer-feedback (this is
only available to Plusnet customers via their own news-server,
news.plus.net )


Presumably the Openreach engineer was there as a result of a Plusnet
complaint passed on from the OP? If not, what was he doing there? This
sounds like a complaint to Plusnet that has not yet been fixed by its
subcontractor BT Openreach.

Whoops sorry about the last post.

The OP mentioned the quiet line test so I assumed there was audible
interference on the line.
If so, and if his CP is BT, then he could conceivably have reported
the issue as a POTS fault himself.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%
  #9  
Old June 15th 13, 08:52 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 620
Default Intermittent ADSL fault

Andy Burns wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote:

I'd be surprised if Bob Pullen (of Plusnet Customer Support) doesn't
pop up soon


When he's back from holidays ...


OK some more info.

The site is down a long driveway - perhaps 300 metres.

There are 4 pairs arriving at a DP in the office. Two for IDSN2e, one
for fax, one for ADSL. Here the ADSL service terminates on a new master
socket fitted by the BT engineer (to replace the previous old-fashioned
socket). No other pairs available.

There is a pole about 20 metres from the office. The cable run up the
wall and over the roof to this pole is probably about 30 metres. At the
top of this pole there is a junction shaped like a cylinder, perhaps 6
inches long and an inch diameter. From this pole runs a cable to
another building - the run is about 25 metres - here the cable
terminates in an old-fashioned master socket. A phone plugged into this
socket reports the same telephone number.

Evidently connecting extension wiring at the top of a pole was accepted
practise in the past where the extension phone is part of the same
enterprise - as here.

This pole is one of those marked "Dangerous", so the engineer could not
climb it to investigate further.

I first reported the fault at lunchtime on Thursday 6 June, having seen
many connection failures on the Wednesday and the Thursday morning. The
fault then disappeared; and BT refused to send an engineer. The
connection remained up until Tuesday 11 June; and from then the longest
up-time has been 10 hours, the shortest about a mimute. I re-booked the
fault at 18:55 on Wednesday 12 June; and the engineer visit at 13:30
Friday 14 June was as a result.

The engineer's TDR shows a mismatch at 80 metres. There is no obvious
junction at that distance, however the distance from TDR to pole to
other extension and back would add up to about 80 metres. So it's
possible that the reflection is caused by the extension wiring.

The engineer was not willing to swap the pair with the one used for the
fax service - says it was against policy. Can anybody confirm this policy?

He would not lay a temporary drop wire on the ground running the length
of the driveway to get the service working - again against policy.

He would not swap the DSLAM at the exchange, saying he would have to
demonstrate the failure of the DSLAM using his test equipment at the
exchange before being instructed by Plusnet to do so. But given the
difficulty of finding a possible intermittent connection in a reasonable
time it would seem to me that swapping the DSLAM is a simple ten-minute
job that would at least eliminate the DSLAM as the source of the fault.
Can Plusnet give OR this instruction?

So far as I can see the next step is for OR to bring in a cherrypicker
and replace the wiring from the office for the whole length of the
driveway. At worst, all this does is eliminate that length of existing
wiring as a possible source of the problem, so it may be a very
expensive and inconclusive test.

The engineer's report will go back to Plusnet, and I have logged the
problem as unresolved.

I will let you all know what happens from here.

--
Graham J




  #10  
Old June 15th 13, 12:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 458
Default Intermittent ADSL fault

Graham J wrote:


The engineer was not willing to swap the pair with the one used for the
fax service - says it was against policy. Can anybody confirm this policy?


A friend of mine had exactly that done, when he had a similar problem, that
doesn't answer your question though !

Is the line audibly noisy if you use it for 'POTS' ? If so that would
probably eliminate the DSLAM as being duff, and indicate there is most
probably an HR fault.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
 




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