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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Ideas for resolving this intermittent problem please?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 28th 13, 08:06 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 620
Default Ideas for resolving this intermittent problem please?

Problem is intermittent broadband service.

What I have tried:

1) Replace microfilter - several times!

2) Replace router - several times! Have used Vigor 2800 (several) and
Vigor 2820 - all with most recent firmware. All the routers have
performed OK at other sites, and a couple were in continuous service
elsewhere and were borrowed especially because they were known to be
reliable. I need the Vigor for the LAN-to-LAN VPN facility.

3) Tested on site with PC connected directly to router using Ethernet
patch cable.

4) Tested remotely using F8Lure (site has a static public IP), and by
pinging continuously from my desktop.

Symptom: every few days the connection becomes intermittent. Pinging
from my desktop shows dropped pings, starting at a few percent then
sometime increasing until I see just on response every 50 or 100 pings.
F8Lure shows the same thing graphically: sometimes occasional red
bars, sometimes red "grass" and sometimes solid red blocks.

The user sees poor web browsing, getting worse to the extent that she
cannot download and run any web-based speed test.

The problem often occurs when there is nobody on site using a computer -
there is no traffic whatever. This is confirmed by the traffic graph
shown by the Vigor router.

There is no pattern to the time of day when the problem starts.

The problem does not resolve itself spontaneously.

Rebooting the router always resolves the problem.

However, the ISP reports that when the problem is present, there is good
ADSL sync, and no indication of more than a trivial error rate (0.1%).
Ths ISP can reset the DSLAM at the exchange - this always resolves the
problem.

Even when the packet loss is severe - say about 70% - I can telnet into
the router and issue the "adsl reboot" command. This forces a re-sync
(the sync speed before and after the adsl reboot sometimes changes by a
few percent) and it follows that a new PPP session is started.
Sometimes this takes many minutes to set up rather than the usual 50
seconds. The "adsl reboot" has the advantages that the router does not
lose any historical data such as the traffic graph.

The ISP has suggested running Pathping whenever the problem is seen -
but this is an ordinary user, so it's a non-starter. Further, I know
the problem occurs when the user would not be available to run any tests.

Ideas, please?

TIA

--
Graham J
  #2  
Old December 29th 13, 01:03 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 876
Default Ideas for resolving this intermittent problem please?

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 20:06:46 +0000, Graham J [email protected] wrote:

Problem is intermittent broadband service.

What I have tried:

1) Replace microfilter - several times!

2) Replace router - several times! Have used Vigor 2800 (several) and
Vigor 2820 - all with most recent firmware. All the routers have
performed OK at other sites, and a couple were in continuous service
elsewhere and were borrowed especially because they were known to be
reliable. I need the Vigor for the LAN-to-LAN VPN facility.

3) Tested on site with PC connected directly to router using Ethernet
patch cable.

4) Tested remotely using F8Lure (site has a static public IP), and by
pinging continuously from my desktop.

Symptom: every few days the connection becomes intermittent. Pinging
from my desktop shows dropped pings, starting at a few percent then
sometime increasing until I see just on response every 50 or 100 pings.
F8Lure shows the same thing graphically: sometimes occasional red
bars, sometimes red "grass" and sometimes solid red blocks.

The user sees poor web browsing, getting worse to the extent that she
cannot download and run any web-based speed test.

The problem often occurs when there is nobody on site using a computer -
there is no traffic whatever. This is confirmed by the traffic graph
shown by the Vigor router.

There is no pattern to the time of day when the problem starts.

The problem does not resolve itself spontaneously.

Rebooting the router always resolves the problem.

However, the ISP reports that when the problem is present, there is good
ADSL sync, and no indication of more than a trivial error rate (0.1%).
Ths ISP can reset the DSLAM at the exchange - this always resolves the
problem.

Even when the packet loss is severe - say about 70% - I can telnet into
the router and issue the "adsl reboot" command. This forces a re-sync
(the sync speed before and after the adsl reboot sometimes changes by a
few percent) and it follows that a new PPP session is started.
Sometimes this takes many minutes to set up rather than the usual 50
seconds. The "adsl reboot" has the advantages that the router does not
lose any historical data such as the traffic graph.

The ISP has suggested running Pathping whenever the problem is seen -
but this is an ordinary user, so it's a non-starter. Further, I know
the problem occurs when the user would not be available to run any tests.

Ideas, please?

TIA



Any audible noise on the phone line during these events?

Does taking the phone off-hook or returning it on-hook change
anything?

Does an incoming call ringing the line affect the ADSL?



--
Graham.


%Profound_observation%
  #3  
Old December 29th 13, 09:41 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 620
Default Ideas for resolving this intermittent problem please?

Graham. wrote:
[snip]


Any audible noise on the phone line during these events?


No


Does taking the phone off-hook or returning it on-hook change
anything?


No

Does an incoming call ringing the line affect the ADSL?


No


--
Graham J

  #4  
Old December 29th 13, 10:04 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 343
Default Ideas for resolving this intermittent problem please?

On 28/12/2013 20:06, Graham J wrote:
Problem is intermittent broadband service.

What I have tried:

1) Replace microfilter - several times!

2) Replace router - several times! Have used Vigor 2800 (several) and
Vigor 2820 - all with most recent firmware. All the routers have
performed OK at other sites, and a couple were in continuous service
elsewhere and were borrowed especially because they were known to be
reliable. I need the Vigor for the LAN-to-LAN VPN facility.

3) Tested on site with PC connected directly to router using Ethernet
patch cable.

4) Tested remotely using F8Lure (site has a static public IP), and by
pinging continuously from my desktop.

Symptom: every few days the connection becomes intermittent. Pinging
from my desktop shows dropped pings, starting at a few percent then
sometime increasing until I see just on response every 50 or 100 pings.
F8Lure shows the same thing graphically: sometimes occasional red
bars, sometimes red "grass" and sometimes solid red blocks.

The user sees poor web browsing, getting worse to the extent that she
cannot download and run any web-based speed test.


I have seen something like this where the router has somehow lost track
of the sync but in a way that results in the other end still being
happy. The download SNR ends up as almost zero and nothing short of a
hard reboot will budge it from this impasse zero traffic on downloads.
Mostly it happens overnight when I have seen it but not always.
Diagnostic stats from the router might shed some light?

The problem often occurs when there is nobody on site using a computer -
there is no traffic whatever. This is confirmed by the traffic graph
shown by the Vigor router.

There is no pattern to the time of day when the problem starts.

The problem does not resolve itself spontaneously.

Rebooting the router always resolves the problem.

However, the ISP reports that when the problem is present, there is good
ADSL sync, and no indication of more than a trivial error rate (0.1%).
Ths ISP can reset the DSLAM at the exchange - this always resolves the
problem.

Even when the packet loss is severe - say about 70% - I can telnet into
the router and issue the "adsl reboot" command. This forces a re-sync
(the sync speed before and after the adsl reboot sometimes changes by a
few percent) and it follows that a new PPP session is started. Sometimes
this takes many minutes to set up rather than the usual 50 seconds. The
"adsl reboot" has the advantages that the router does not lose any
historical data such as the traffic graph.


A few percent variation in sync rate is common.

You get a slightly better sync rate mid afternoon when the interference
from foreign radio stations is weakest and worse after dark.

The ISP has suggested running Pathping whenever the problem is seen -
but this is an ordinary user, so it's a non-starter. Further, I know
the problem occurs when the user would not be available to run any tests.

Ideas, please?

TIA


Routerstats light might shed some light on the problem and is moderately
user friendly if the modem is supported.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #5  
Old December 29th 13, 09:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 876
Default Ideas for resolving this intermittent problem please?

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 09:41:31 +0000, Graham J [email protected] wrote:

Graham. wrote:
[snip]


Any audible noise on the phone line during these events?


No


Does taking the phone off-hook or returning it on-hook change
anything?


No

Does an incoming call ringing the line affect the ADSL?


No

You might want to consider reflashing the Netgear with the DGTeam
firmware which allows you to spoof your reported noise margin.


--
Graham.


%Profound_observation%
  #6  
Old December 30th 13, 08:43 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 620
Default Ideas for resolving this intermittent problem please?

Graham. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 09:41:31 +0000, Graham J [email protected] wrote:

Graham. wrote:
[snip]


Any audible noise on the phone line during these events?


No


Does taking the phone off-hook or returning it on-hook change
anything?


No

Does an incoming call ringing the line affect the ADSL?


No

You might want to consider reflashing the Netgear with the DGTeam
firmware which allows you to spoof your reported noise margin.


Don't have Netgear - all the routers I've tried are Vigors of diferent
flavours because I nee the LAN-to-LAN VPN feature.

--
Graham J

  #7  
Old December 30th 13, 08:53 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 620
Default Ideas for resolving this intermittent problem please?

Martin Brown wrote:
[snip]

I have seen something like this where the router has somehow lost track
of the sync but in a way that results in the other end still being
happy. The download SNR ends up as almost zero and nothing short of a
hard reboot will budge it from this impasse zero traffic on downloads.
Mostly it happens overnight when I have seen it but not always.
Diagnostic stats from the router might shed some light?


No - when the problem is present but not severe enough that I can't
monitor the router remotely - the SNR margin has its normal value:
13.0dB +/- 0.5 dB ....


The problem often occurs when there is nobody on site using a computer -
there is no traffic whatever. This is confirmed by the traffic graph
shown by the Vigor router.


[snip]

Routerstats light might shed some light on the problem and is moderately
user friendly if the modem is supported.


I'm testing Routerstats 6.8k at present. It needs some configuration,
but I can record up/down sync speeds and downstream SNR margin; also the
corrected and uncorrected error counts.

What I propose is to install this on a spare laptop that I can leave on
site, runing with its lid closed. Via the VPN I will be able to monitor
the laptop and see the history that Routertats has recorded. Also I can
automate Pathping to run at frequent intervals and capture waht it sees.

I will let you know how I get on ...

--
Graham J


  #8  
Old December 30th 13, 09:06 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Peter Crosland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,463
Default Ideas for resolving this intermittent problem please?

On 30/12/2013 08:53, Graham J wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:
[snip]

I have seen something like this where the router has somehow lost track
of the sync but in a way that results in the other end still being
happy. The download SNR ends up as almost zero and nothing short of a
hard reboot will budge it from this impasse zero traffic on downloads.
Mostly it happens overnight when I have seen it but not always.
Diagnostic stats from the router might shed some light?


No - when the problem is present but not severe enough that I can't
monitor the router remotely - the SNR margin has its normal value:
13.0dB +/- 0.5 dB ....


The problem often occurs when there is nobody on site using a computer -
there is no traffic whatever. This is confirmed by the traffic graph
shown by the Vigor router.


[snip]

Routerstats light might shed some light on the problem and is moderately
user friendly if the modem is supported.


I'm testing Routerstats 6.8k at present. It needs some configuration,
but I can record up/down sync speeds and downstream SNR margin; also the
corrected and uncorrected error counts.

What I propose is to install this on a spare laptop that I can leave on
site, runing with its lid closed. Via the VPN I will be able to monitor
the laptop and see the history that Routertats has recorded. Also I can
automate Pathping to run at frequent intervals and capture waht it sees.

I will let you know how I get on ...


Have you tried connecting the router to the test socket i.e. the one
behind the removable faceplate? That is a first step to eliminating
faults with the internal wiring. Other routers support VPN so it might
be worth trying a non Draytek one to see if the problem is still there.


--
Peter Crosland
  #9  
Old December 30th 13, 09:59 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 620
Default Ideas for resolving this intermittent problem please?

Peter Crosland wrote:
[snip]

Have you tried connecting the router to the test socket i.e. the one
behind the removable faceplate? That is a first step to eliminating
faults with the internal wiring.


Yes

Other routers support VPN so it might
be worth trying a non Draytek one to see if the problem is still there.


Point taken, but since the Drayteks I've tried have all worked on other
ADSL connections - sometimes for many months - I can't see how the
router could be the cause of the problem.

--
Graham J


  #10  
Old December 30th 13, 10:52 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Peter Crosland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,463
Default Ideas for resolving this intermittent problem please?

On 30/12/2013 09:59, Graham J wrote:
Peter Crosland wrote:
[snip]

Have you tried connecting the router to the test socket i.e. the one
behind the removable faceplate? That is a first step to eliminating
faults with the internal wiring.


Yes

Other routers support VPN so it might
be worth trying a non Draytek one to see if the problem is still there.


Point taken, but since the Drayteks I've tried have all worked on other
ADSL connections - sometimes for many months - I can't see how the
router could be the cause of the problem.


In my experience it is not unknown for one particular model of router to
be particularly prone to locking up under the conditions on a specific
line. I am not saying that is your problem but it could be. For example
the site you are having problems with mains borne interference for
present elsewhere you have tried it or the power supply could be faulty.
It is a fundamental principle of any troubleshooting exercise to never
say "it can't be that". Bitter experience, not only with
telecommunications, that it often is that reason! Good luck anyway.


--
Peter Crosland
 




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