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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 31st 14, 08:14 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 182
Default Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.

Soon I will be getting transferred from my Be copper BB to Sky Fibre BB, I
will receive a Sky hub in advance for a self install.
Someone as told me this is a bad practice as BT OR should do it so that I do
not need to use the separate VSDL filters that come with the Sky Hub.
At present I do not use any separate filters as I fitted a filter to the
bottom half of the master socket think it called NTES socket.
Will this master socket filter be OK for Fibre or is VDSL filter different
please?

Regards
David


  #2  
Old January 31st 14, 09:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
kráftéé
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,765
Default Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.


"David" wrote in message
...
Soon I will be getting transferred from my Be copper BB to Sky Fibre BB, I
will receive a Sky hub in advance for a self install.
Someone as told me this is a bad practice as BT OR should do it so that I
do not need to use the separate VSDL filters that come with the Sky Hub.
At present I do not use any separate filters as I fitted a filter to the
bottom half of the master socket think it called NTES socket.
Will this master socket filter be OK for Fibre or is VDSL filter different
please?


The chances are that the filter you have fitted is not compatible with the
VDSL service and you had to have a visit to change the filtering and check
your internal wiring (price is included in the setup fee paid to SKY).

You will require some type of engineering contact anyway, how do you expect
to get the service without any work being carried out on your line?


  #3  
Old January 31st 14, 09:15 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jono
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,539
Default Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.

kraftéé laid this down on his screen :
"David" wrote in message
...
Soon I will be getting transferred from my Be copper BB to Sky Fibre BB, I
will receive a Sky hub in advance for a self install.
Someone as told me this is a bad practice as BT OR should do it so that I
do not need to use the separate VSDL filters that come with the Sky Hub.
At present I do not use any separate filters as I fitted a filter to the
bottom half of the master socket think it called NTES socket.
Will this master socket filter be OK for Fibre or is VDSL filter different
please?


The chances are that the filter you have fitted is not compatible with the
VDSL service and you had to have a visit to change the filtering and check
your internal wiring (price is included in the setup fee paid to SKY).

You will require some type of engineering contact anyway, how do you expect
to get the service without any work being carried out on your line?


Self install at the customer end is being trialled in some parts.

No need for a visit to the house for regular ADSL; why should it be
necessary for VDSL?


  #4  
Old January 31st 14, 09:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Rupert Moss-Eccardt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 56
Default Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.

kraftéé wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
Soon I will be getting transferred from my Be copper BB to Sky Fibre
BB, I will receive a Sky hub in advance for a self install.
Someone as told me this is a bad practice as BT OR should do it so
that I do not need to use the separate VSDL filters that come with the
Sky Hub.
At present I do not use any separate filters as I fitted a filter to
the bottom half of the master socket think it called NTES socket.
Will this master socket filter be OK for Fibre or is VDSL filter
different please?


The chances are that the filter you have fitted is not compatible with
the VDSL service and you had to have a visit to change the filtering
and check your internal wiring (price is included in the setup fee paid
to SKY).

You will require some type of engineering contact anyway, how do you
expect to get the service without any work being carried out on your line?


Not any more with the 'wires only' option. Here are the instructions
for Sky subs, for example:

http://help.sky.com/broadband/set-up...!black-sky-hub

The OP should note that the filter in the NTE is fine and you don't need
to do anything.

It works as the SR102 is a dual-technology modem.
  #5  
Old January 31st 14, 10:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MikeJ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.

On 31/01/2014 21:27, Rupert Moss-Eccardt wrote:
kraftéé wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
Soon I will be getting transferred from my Be copper BB to Sky Fibre
BB, I will receive a Sky hub in advance for a self install.
Someone as told me this is a bad practice as BT OR should do it so
that I do not need to use the separate VSDL filters that come with the
Sky Hub.
At present I do not use any separate filters as I fitted a filter to
the bottom half of the master socket think it called NTES socket.
Will this master socket filter be OK for Fibre or is VDSL filter
different please?


The chances are that the filter you have fitted is not compatible with
the VDSL service and you had to have a visit to change the filtering
and check your internal wiring (price is included in the setup fee paid
to SKY).

You will require some type of engineering contact anyway, how do you
expect to get the service without any work being carried out on your
line?


Not any more with the 'wires only' option. Here are the instructions for
Sky subs, for example:

http://help.sky.com/broadband/set-up...!black-sky-hub


The OP should note that the filter in the NTE is fine and you don't need
to do anything.

It works as the SR102 is a dual-technology modem.



The story is far more complicated than in these postings.
The Sky "black" hub is a standard ADSL device for use ONLY on a standard
copper line where the ADSL signal comes on the copper all the way from
the exchange. The filters provided or one of the ones you have put in
the master socket are only suitable for standard ADSL.

The fibre product is entirely different. The data goes to a local
special green cabinet where all the data for multiple customers gets
separated. Your old copper pair is diverted to this cabinet (from the
existing old one in the street) and the new faster internet signal is
combined with it and the signal plus your telephone then goes back to
the old cabinet and on to your house. Hopefully this will be quite a
short distance and so not much signal is lost.

At your house, An Openreach Engineer WILL provide you with a new VDSL
faceplate on your master socket which comes with improved filters fitted
and the usual BT phone socket on the front (and tags on the back to
connect extension wiring)and a filter in the phone side to avoid the BB
signal getting unnecessarily sent around your house - so you can't now
put the internet connections anywhere on phone sockets around the house!
- and a removable bit with a single RJ11 (small 4pin)BB socket. He WILL
provide a modem as well that in theory should be connected directly to
this socket and close to it (see later) However this device is ONLY a
modem with ONE RJ45 socket on it and does NOT contain a hub nor any sort
of distribution system to your PC or wireless.

You (or your provider) will supply a separate router/Wireless box with
all the necessary interconnection and safety setup software. Your old
hub will NOT work for this. This can be some distance away and Openreach
MIGHT supply a suitable cable or you will have to provide a suitable
network cable. I am not sure if the OR guy will help with this without
lots of "tea and biscuits"

In actual fact, the filter plate has tags on the back to extend the BB
away to the BT modem elsewhere but you may have to do this yourself and
accept the consequences (more tea and biscuits)
The cable used should be good quality - either network cable or modern
twisted pair BT phone cable.
At the other end, you will have to then provide an RJ11 socket into
which to plug the BT provided modem. However these are a bit rare in
this country (they are used mainly in the USA for their phones) BUT it
is possible to use an RJ45 socket and just connect the two centre pins
and an RJ11 will fit in the middle and pick up the relevant connections.

All a bit complicated but I hope this makes all clear. I did exactly
this for aneighbour and it works fine.

Good luck!

Mike
  #6  
Old January 31st 14, 10:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jono
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,539
Default Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.

MikeJ has brought this to us :

snip

The Sky "black" hub is a standard ADSL device for use ONLY on a standard
copper line where the ADSL signal comes on the copper all the way from the
exchange. The filters provided or one of the ones you have put in the master
socket are only suitable for standard ADSL.


snip

The current black hub has a built in VDSL modem.


  #7  
Old January 31st 14, 11:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 22:11:36 +0000, MikeJ wrote:

On 31/01/2014 21:27, Rupert Moss-Eccardt wrote:
kraftéé wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
Soon I will be getting transferred from my Be copper BB to Sky Fibre
BB, I will receive a Sky hub in advance for a self install.
Someone as told me this is a bad practice as BT OR should do it so
that I do not need to use the separate VSDL filters that come with the
Sky Hub.
At present I do not use any separate filters as I fitted a filter to
the bottom half of the master socket think it called NTES socket.
Will this master socket filter be OK for Fibre or is VDSL filter
different please?

The chances are that the filter you have fitted is not compatible with
the VDSL service and you had to have a visit to change the filtering
and check your internal wiring (price is included in the setup fee paid
to SKY).

You will require some type of engineering contact anyway, how do you
expect to get the service without any work being carried out on your
line?


Not any more with the 'wires only' option. Here are the instructions for
Sky subs, for example:

http://help.sky.com/broadband/set-up...!black-sky-hub


The OP should note that the filter in the NTE is fine and you don't need
to do anything.

It works as the SR102 is a dual-technology modem.



The story is far more complicated than in these postings.
The Sky "black" hub is a standard ADSL device for use ONLY on a standard
copper line where the ADSL signal comes on the copper all the way from
the exchange. The filters provided or one of the ones you have put in
the master socket are only suitable for standard ADSL.

The fibre product is entirely different. The data goes to a local
special green cabinet where all the data for multiple customers gets
separated. Your old copper pair is diverted to this cabinet (from the
existing old one in the street) and the new faster internet signal is
combined with it and the signal plus your telephone then goes back to
the old cabinet and on to your house. Hopefully this will be quite a
short distance and so not much signal is lost.

At your house, An Openreach Engineer WILL provide you with a new VDSL
faceplate on your master socket which comes with improved filters fitted
and the usual BT phone socket on the front (and tags on the back to
connect extension wiring)and a filter in the phone side to avoid the BB
signal getting unnecessarily sent around your house - so you can't now
put the internet connections anywhere on phone sockets around the house!
- and a removable bit with a single RJ11 (small 4pin)BB socket. He WILL
provide a modem as well that in theory should be connected directly to
this socket and close to it (see later) However this device is ONLY a
modem with ONE RJ45 socket on it and does NOT contain a hub nor any sort
of distribution system to your PC or wireless.

You (or your provider) will supply a separate router/Wireless box with
all the necessary interconnection and safety setup software. Your old
hub will NOT work for this. This can be some distance away and Openreach
MIGHT supply a suitable cable or you will have to provide a suitable
network cable. I am not sure if the OR guy will help with this without
lots of "tea and biscuits"

In actual fact, the filter plate has tags on the back to extend the BB
away to the BT modem elsewhere but you may have to do this yourself and
accept the consequences (more tea and biscuits)
The cable used should be good quality - either network cable or modern
twisted pair BT phone cable.
At the other end, you will have to then provide an RJ11 socket into
which to plug the BT provided modem. However these are a bit rare in
this country (they are used mainly in the USA for their phones) BUT it
is possible to use an RJ45 socket and just connect the two centre pins
and an RJ11 will fit in the middle and pick up the relevant connections.

All a bit complicated but I hope this makes all clear. I did exactly
this for aneighbour and it works fine.

Good luck!

Mike



Sadly, we are moving away from the that engineer install model, and
towards self install just like ADSL
http://help.sky.com/broadband/set-up...!black-sky-hub

Notice how no mention is made of the multiple extension sockets that
might be connected to that faceplate.

Are extra VDSL filters provided for the other POTS devices?
Even if the answer is yes it's still a poor way of doing it, I
personally would never wire ADSL up with multiple filters, let alone
VDSL.

The whole point of the engineer visit is to ensure all the extensions
are wired back to the single filter in the VDSL NTE that he installs.
VDSL performance is much more likely to suffer than ADSL if this is
not attended to.

Disappointing, but I suppose it was inevitable really.


--
Graham.


%Profound_observation%
  #8  
Old January 31st 14, 11:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 20:14:09 -0000, "David" wrote:

Soon I will be getting transferred from my Be copper BB to Sky Fibre BB, I
will receive a Sky hub in advance for a self install.
Someone as told me this is a bad practice as BT OR should do it so that I do
not need to use the separate VSDL filters that come with the Sky Hub.
At present I do not use any separate filters as I fitted a filter to the
bottom half of the master socket think it called NTES socket.
Will this master socket filter be OK for Fibre or is VDSL filter different
please?

Regards
David



Ok.
Assuming no Openreach engineer installation

Option "A"
Buy this
http://www.clarity.it/vdsl_nte5_adaptor_faceplate.htm

Use it to replace your existing filtered faceplate.

Option "B"
Replace the existing ADSL faceplate with the origanal non filtered
one. Wire it to the extension(s) but don't fit it to the master
socket, let it dangle.

Plug the VDSL dongle filter that Sky supply into the internal socket
on the master, now, wire length permitting, bodily plug the faceplate
into the POTS socket on the filter.

OK, it looks a total abortion but it achieves the goal of a central
filter, and electrically it's equivalent to option "A"

I suspect you might want to use "B" temporarily until you can
implement "A"

If they supply more than one filter (for extensions) please don't use
them. See my comments in my earlier post.




--
Graham.


%Profound_observation%
  #9  
Old February 1st 14, 08:01 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 182
Default Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.

Mine is AdslNation and looks like this one,
http://www.domesday1986.com/products/xte2005.php
Regards
David





"Graham." wrote in message
...

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 20:14:09 -0000, "David" wrote:

Soon I will be getting transferred from my Be copper BB to Sky Fibre BB, I
will receive a Sky hub in advance for a self install.
Someone as told me this is a bad practice as BT OR should do it so that I
do
not need to use the separate VSDL filters that come with the Sky Hub.
At present I do not use any separate filters as I fitted a filter to the
bottom half of the master socket think it called NTES socket.
Will this master socket filter be OK for Fibre or is VDSL filter different
please?

Regards
David



Ok.
Assuming no Openreach engineer installation

Option "A"
Buy this
http://www.clarity.it/vdsl_nte5_adaptor_faceplate.htm

Use it to replace your existing filtered faceplate.

Option "B"
Replace the existing ADSL faceplate with the origanal non filtered
one. Wire it to the extension(s) but don't fit it to the master
socket, let it dangle.

Plug the VDSL dongle filter that Sky supply into the internal socket
on the master, now, wire length permitting, bodily plug the faceplate
into the POTS socket on the filter.

OK, it looks a total abortion but it achieves the goal of a central
filter, and electrically it's equivalent to option "A"

I suspect you might want to use "B" temporarily until you can
implement "A"

If they supply more than one filter (for extensions) please don't use
them. See my comments in my earlier post.




--
Graham.


%Profound_observation%

  #10  
Old February 1st 14, 09:11 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 561
Default Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 22:11:36 +0000, MikeJ wrote:

You (or your provider) will supply a separate router/Wireless box with
all the necessary interconnection and safety setup software. Your old
hub will NOT work for this.


That's what I thought, but apparently some can. The TG582n wireless
router provided by my ISP arrived about a week before my fibre
installation date, so I had a play with it, and found I could set it
up to work on the ADSL2+ service I already had. On the day, the
Openreach engineer installed one of their modems and plugged the
TG582n into that instead of the wall socket. There's a simple
configuration change in its setup pages to tell it what sort of
broadband to use, fibre or ADSL, so this one can do both.

So now I have two little boxes, a VDSL modem supplied by Openreach,
and a wireless router supplied by my ISP. If I decided it was
important for the sake of neatness to have the whole lot done by one
little box, I understand they are available but are only made by a few
companies and cost an arm and a leg, but in my case both little boxes
are on a high shelf out of the way so for the time being I'm happy.

Rod.
 




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