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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Mobile and wi-fi coverage on trains



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 15th 14, 09:22 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Scott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 141
Default Mobile and wi-fi coverage on trains

I hope the cross-posting is appropriate!

I notice some trains have enhanced mobile phone coverage and wi-fi. I
wonder how that works. Does the train have to be within reception for
mobile coverage and within a 3G (or 4G) area for wi-fi to work, or is
there a different way of getting the signal to the train?

Is there perhaps a 25kV version of the powerline adapter to allow
distrbution using the overhead line equipment?
  #2  
Old March 15th 14, 09:42 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Charles Ellson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Mobile and wi-fi coverage on trains

On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 21:22:00 +0000, Scott
wrote:

I hope the cross-posting is appropriate!

I notice some trains have enhanced mobile phone coverage and wi-fi. I
wonder how that works. Does the train have to be within reception for
mobile coverage and within a 3G (or 4G) area for wi-fi to work, or is
there a different way of getting the signal to the train?

Is there perhaps a 25kV version of the powerline adapter to allow
distrbution using the overhead line equipment?

No Powerline pollution is involved, the moving bit is done via "the
ether"[TM].
See e.g. :-
http://www.railway-technology.com/fe...ure1150-1.html
for WiFi.
The general method of working involves mostly land-based routes
(including GSM) for outgoing communication which is mainly low-speed
and satellite for incoming data which tends to require higher speeds
but less continuous communication.
  #3  
Old March 16th 14, 11:07 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
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Posts: 561
Default Mobile and wi-fi coverage on trains

On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 21:42:09 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:


I notice some trains have enhanced mobile phone coverage and wi-fi. I
wonder how that works. Does the train have to be within reception for
mobile coverage and within a 3G (or 4G) area for wi-fi to work, or is
there a different way of getting the signal to the train?

Is there perhaps a 25kV version of the powerline adapter to allow
distrbution using the overhead line equipment?

No Powerline pollution is involved, the moving bit is done via "the
ether"[TM].
See e.g. :-
http://www.railway-technology.com/fe...ure1150-1.html
for WiFi.
The general method of working involves mostly land-based routes
(including GSM) for outgoing communication which is mainly low-speed
and satellite for incoming data which tends to require higher speeds
but less continuous communication.


The other important thing to know about how it works, at least on the
only trains I've been on that had this feature, is that in order to
use it you have to create a login account and pay some money,
presumably requiring you to enter your credit card details. It was at
this point that I decided to give up and look out of the window
instead, realising as a result of many years experience that whilst on
a train in mainland Britain you don't suffer any hardship from being
incommunicado for a couple of hours.

Rod.
  #4  
Old March 16th 14, 01:32 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Graham.
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Posts: 216
Default Mobile and wi-fi coverage on trains

snip
Is there perhaps a 25kV version of the powerline adapter to allow
distrbution using the overhead line equipment?


No Powerline pollution is involved

snip

The Manchester Metrolink produces enough medium-wave radio
interference even without carrying data,

Or at least it used to when it first opened.

I can't recall hearing the distinctive whine for many years, that
might be because my radio listening habits have changed or some
countermeasures ie RF filtering have been added.

Anyone from uk.railway care to comment?


  #5  
Old March 16th 14, 02:31 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Stephen Furley[_2_]
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Posts: 1
Default Mobile and wi-fi coverage on trains



"Scott" wrote in message ...

I hope the cross-posting is appropriate!


I notice some trains have enhanced mobile phone coverage and wi-fi. I
wonder how that works. Does the train have to be within reception for
mobile coverage and within a 3G (or 4G) area for wi-fi to work, or is
there a different way of getting the signal to the train?


Is there perhaps a 25kV version of the powerline adapter to allow
distrbution using the overhead line equipment?


The 'backhaul' network is usually 3G, but it can be various things,
including Wi-Max and satellite. It works in a similar way to a smartphone
which can receive a 3G signal and act as a Wi-Fi hotspot for other devices.

The gateway devices for use on coaches and trains are mainly made by a
company called Icomera. Their products which I have seen have now been
replaced by newer models, but most of them can have multiple radios, for
example it would be possible to use a fast Wi-Fi connection to a train while
it was in a terminal station to download seat reservations, and possibly
entertainment content for distribution to passengers during the journey.
While the train was moving it could connect to various 3G networks, using
the best available signal wherever it happened to be at the time. In a
remote area, with no 3G signal available it could switch to satellite. I
think all systems in the uk at present use 3G, or possibly 4G, networks, but
satellite, and I think Wi-Max, have been used in the past. Whatever the
backhaul network in use the data are distributed to the passengers by Wi-Fi.

The gateway devices also usually contain GPS receivers. These can be used
on coaches for example for tracking the location of vehicles, and relaying
the information to base. I believe that in many cases this was the main
reason for installing the equipment, and the ability to provide Internet
service to passengers was a bonus.

  #6  
Old March 16th 14, 06:11 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Mobile and wi-fi coverage on trains

On 2014-03-15 21:22:00 +0000, Scott said:

I hope the cross-posting is appropriate!

I notice some trains have enhanced mobile phone coverage and wi-fi. I
wonder how that works. Does the train have to be within reception for
mobile coverage and within a 3G (or 4G) area for wi-fi to work, or is
there a different way of getting the signal to the train?

Is there perhaps a 25kV version of the powerline adapter to allow
distrbution using the overhead line equipment?


When power electronics were introduced for railway traction (inverters
produce variable voltage variable frequency 3 phase AC for the traction
motors), a big concern has been frequency harmonics escaping from the
inverters and getting into the track (traction current return is
through the running rails), interfering with track circuits used for
train detection for the signalling system. I imagine if the traction
supply were used for this kind of data transmission, there would need
to be all kinds of careful testing to make sure it didn't interfere
with safety critical signalling systems in the same way.

Robin

  #7  
Old March 16th 14, 10:01 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
R. Mark Clayton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 699
Default Mobile and wi-fi coverage on trains


"Scott" wrote in message
...
I hope the cross-posting is appropriate!

I notice some trains have enhanced mobile phone coverage and wi-fi. I
wonder how that works. Does the train have to be within reception for
mobile coverage and within a 3G (or 4G) area for wi-fi to work, or is
there a different way of getting the signal to the train?


Dunno exactly, does it work in tunnels?


Is there perhaps a 25kV version of the powerline adapter to allow
distrbution using the overhead line equipment?


I doubt it - imagine how much you would need to pay the test engineers and
the need for constant replacements...


  #8  
Old March 16th 14, 10:33 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Brian Robertson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Mobile and wi-fi coverage on trains

On 16/03/2014 13:32, Graham. wrote:
snip
Is there perhaps a 25kV version of the powerline adapter to allow
distrbution using the overhead line equipment?


No Powerline pollution is involved

snip

The Manchester Metrolink produces enough medium-wave radio
interference even without carrying data,

Or at least it used to when it first opened.

I can't recall hearing the distinctive whine for many years, that
might be because my radio listening habits have changed or some
countermeasures ie RF filtering have been added.

Anyone from uk.railway care to comment?



Well, I can only add this: I read that Jodrell Bank only ended up where
it is, when it did, because of interference from the tram lines in
Manchester. Maybe that is apocryphal.
  #9  
Old March 16th 14, 10:35 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Brian Robertson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Mobile and wi-fi coverage on trains

On 16/03/2014 13:32, Graham. wrote:
snip
Is there perhaps a 25kV version of the powerline adapter to allow
distrbution using the overhead line equipment?


No Powerline pollution is involved

snip

The Manchester Metrolink produces enough medium-wave radio
interference even without carrying data,

Or at least it used to when it first opened.

I can't recall hearing the distinctive whine for many years, that
might be because my radio listening habits have changed or some
countermeasures ie RF filtering have been added.

Anyone from uk.railway care to comment?



Well, I can only add this: I read that Jodrell Bank only ended up where
it is, when it did, because of interference from the tram lines in
Manchester. Maybe that is apocryphal.
  #10  
Old March 16th 14, 11:02 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Charles Ellson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Mobile and wi-fi coverage on trains

On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 22:33:56 +0000, Brian Robertson
wrote:

On 16/03/2014 13:32, Graham. wrote:
snip
Is there perhaps a 25kV version of the powerline adapter to allow
distrbution using the overhead line equipment?


No Powerline pollution is involved

snip

The Manchester Metrolink produces enough medium-wave radio
interference even without carrying data,

Or at least it used to when it first opened.

I can't recall hearing the distinctive whine for many years, that
might be because my radio listening habits have changed or some
countermeasures ie RF filtering have been added.

Anyone from uk.railway care to comment?



Well, I can only add this: I read that Jodrell Bank only ended up where
it is, when it did, because of interference from the tram lines in
Manchester. Maybe that is apocryphal.

Or a mixup with the Greenwich observatory which did have bother with
tramlines while in Greenwich, the reason that some nearby routes had
two-wire overhead with no earth return (and an appropriate switch on
the tram to operate when entering/leaving the affected section). It
wasn't the stargazing that was being interfered with but experiments
involving electrical measurements.
Wonkypaedia mentions trams WRT Jodrell Bank but by that time (1945)
they were likely to be just one of several sources of interference to
be expected near a large conurbation whether or not there were trams
available. The Greenwich circumstances were experienced rather earlier
at the beginning of the 20th century, with similar interference
causing the removal of geomagnetic observation from Kew to
Eskdalemuir:-
http://www.geomag.bgs.ac.uk/operations/kew.html
http://www.geomag.bgs.ac.uk/operations/greenwich.html
 




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