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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Phone cable and networking



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 14th 14, 06:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Vir Campestris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 255
Default Phone cable and networking

Not _strictly_ telecom, but I'm sure people here will know...

I struggle with 'net our here in my shed, using wifi back to the house.
I get 5 megs on a good day, and dropouts on a bad one. Running an
Ethernet across is on my list... (along with re-roofing the house, so
you'll realise net is a little down the list) but I've just realised the
PO had 'phone out here, so there's an armoured phone cable connecting
back to the house. I didn't count, but I'd guess 16 pairs or so.

Would it carry Ethernet? I don't need much speed - 10 megs is fine. Or
do I need to bring the 'phone signal out here instead?

It's about 15-20 metres.

Andy
  #2  
Old June 14th 14, 06:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Dave Saville[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Phone cable and networking

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 17:22:50 UTC, Vir Campestris
wrote:

Not _strictly_ telecom, but I'm sure people here will know...

I struggle with 'net our here in my shed, using wifi back to the house.
I get 5 megs on a good day, and dropouts on a bad one. Running an
Ethernet across is on my list... (along with re-roofing the house, so
you'll realise net is a little down the list) but I've just realised the
PO had 'phone out here, so there's an armoured phone cable connecting
back to the house. I didn't count, but I'd guess 16 pairs or so.

Would it carry Ethernet? I don't need much speed - 10 megs is fine. Or
do I need to bring the 'phone signal out here instead?


Hmm I don't think there will be enough twists/metre in phone cable for
ethernet to work well

I assume the wifi router is in the house and you are just using a
laptop?

Get an AP that works as a *client* and then cable all connections in
the shed. ie use the AP as a switch. That way you can put the AP in
the best reception spot and put some sort of reflecter in place to
enhance the signal. You could also do that at the house end but that
will restrict coverage in the rest of the house.

HTH
--
Regards
Dave Saville
  #3  
Old June 14th 14, 07:08 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 723
Default Phone cable and networking

Vir Campestris wrote:
Not _strictly_ telecom, but I'm sure people here will know...

I struggle with 'net our here in my shed, using wifi back to the house.
I get 5 megs on a good day, and dropouts on a bad one. Running an
Ethernet across is on my list... (along with re-roofing the house, so
you'll realise net is a little down the list) but I've just realised the
PO had 'phone out here, so there's an armoured phone cable connecting
back to the house. I didn't count, but I'd guess 16 pairs or so.

Would it carry Ethernet? I don't need much speed - 10 megs is fine. Or
do I need to bring the 'phone signal out here instead?

It's about 15-20 metres.


Do you need internet in the house? If not then extend the unfiltered
phone service to the shed and put the router there.

Occasional internet requirement in the house could be met by WiFi.

Alternatively (but fairly expensive) terminate the best twisted 4 pairs
of the phone bundle in RJ45 connectors, and put a managed switch at each
end. You can then examine the performance of the link; it might be
acceptable.

You might be able to configure the switches to use 100BASE-T4 over this
link.

Managed 8-port switches start at a bit over 100

--
Graham J

  #4  
Old June 14th 14, 07:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tweed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Phone cable and networking

Vir Campestris wrote:
Not _strictly_ telecom, but I'm sure people here will know...

I struggle with 'net our here in my shed, using wifi back to the house. I
get 5 megs on a good day, and dropouts on a bad one. Running an Ethernet
across is on my list... (along with re-roofing the house, so you'll
realise net is a little down the list) but I've just realised the PO had
'phone out here, so there's an armoured phone cable connecting back to
the house. I didn't count, but I'd guess 16 pairs or so.

Would it carry Ethernet? I don't need much speed - 10 megs is fine. Or do
I need to bring the 'phone signal out here instead?

It's about 15-20 metres.

Andy


Is the shed on the same meter and mains phase as the house? If yes, power
line aka home plug might be a way forwards. Might be worth trying to borrow
a pair of plugs before investing.
  #5  
Old June 14th 14, 07:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 492
Default Phone cable and networking

"Graham J" wrote in message
...
Vir Campestris wrote:
Not _strictly_ telecom, but I'm sure people here will know...

I struggle with 'net our here in my shed, using wifi back to the house.
I get 5 megs on a good day, and dropouts on a bad one. Running an
Ethernet across is on my list... (along with re-roofing the house, so
you'll realise net is a little down the list) but I've just realised the
PO had 'phone out here, so there's an armoured phone cable connecting
back to the house. I didn't count, but I'd guess 16 pairs or so.


Just a thought: is it the outside of the phone cable that's armoured or is
it in an armoured conduit? If the latter, could you pull out the phone cable
and poke Cat5 cable down there instead?

You say that you get 5 Mbps on a good day? I presume that's wifi back to the
router and that the ADSL is faster - eg for computers within the house
connected by Ethernet? Do you need fast comms between the shed and other
computers (eg to access shares on the house computers from the laptop) or is
most of the laptop use for accessing the internet? In other words, how
important is it to get the shed comms faster than 5 Mbps - as long as that
speed is consistent and not just "on a good day".

  #6  
Old June 14th 14, 07:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 561
Default Phone cable and networking

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:22:50 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

I struggle with 'net our here in my shed, using wifi back to the house.
I get 5 megs on a good day, and dropouts on a bad one. Running an
Ethernet across is on my list... (along with re-roofing the house, so
you'll realise net is a little down the list) but I've just realised the
PO had 'phone out here, so there's an armoured phone cable connecting
back to the house. I didn't count, but I'd guess 16 pairs or so.

Would it carry Ethernet? I don't need much speed - 10 megs is fine. Or
do I need to bring the 'phone signal out here instead?

It's about 15-20 metres.


It might work for ethernet; you've got nothing to lose by trying if
the cable is already there, but I would definitely *not* recommend
using it as an unfiltered phone extension and putting the modem/router
in the shed, as this may reduce the data rate. You should seek to
minimise the length of cable which is carrying ADSL.

Pending running proper ethernet cable to the shed (which is the right
way of course), you could try to improve the wi-fi link by running
ethernet within the house to another access point which has a better
line-of-sight view of the shed, perhaps on a windowledge, and you
might also put a bridge in the window of the shed if there's one
facing the house. The Edimax 7228, for example, can be configured both
as an access point and a bridge, so a pair of those would do it. I've
also seen designs for homebrew cardboard and foil reflectors which can
apparently help quite a lot, though I haven't needed them in my setup
so can't speak from experience here.

Rod.
  #7  
Old June 14th 14, 08:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 492
Default Phone cable and networking

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:22:50 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

I struggle with 'net our here in my shed, using wifi back to the house.
I get 5 megs on a good day, and dropouts on a bad one. Running an
Ethernet across is on my list... (along with re-roofing the house, so
you'll realise net is a little down the list) but I've just realised the
PO had 'phone out here, so there's an armoured phone cable connecting
back to the house. I didn't count, but I'd guess 16 pairs or so.

Would it carry Ethernet? I don't need much speed - 10 megs is fine. Or
do I need to bring the 'phone signal out here instead?

It's about 15-20 metres.


It might work for ethernet; you've got nothing to lose by trying if
the cable is already there, but I would definitely *not* recommend
using it as an unfiltered phone extension and putting the modem/router
in the shed, as this may reduce the data rate. You should seek to
minimise the length of cable which is carrying ADSL.

Pending running proper ethernet cable to the shed (which is the right
way of course), you could try to improve the wi-fi link by running
ethernet within the house to another access point which has a better
line-of-sight view of the shed, perhaps on a windowledge, and you
might also put a bridge in the window of the shed if there's one
facing the house. The Edimax 7228, for example, can be configured both
as an access point and a bridge, so a pair of those would do it. I've
also seen designs for homebrew cardboard and foil reflectors which can
apparently help quite a lot, though I haven't needed them in my setup
so can't speak from experience here.


Check also that the glass in the windows doesn't have a heat-reflective
coating, as this can attenuate a wifi signal. And check that the walls of
the shed (eg internal plasterboard lining) don't have a foil coating - this
really does attenuate the signal. I encountered both these factors when
trying to get wifi to a shed that was being used as an office from a new
house with fancy energy-efficient (coated) glass. With direct line of sight
over about 10 m, the signal strength reported by one of the computers was
pathetic, and it was due to coated glass, foil plasterboard and rubber-duck
aerial on PCI card being in the shadow of the PC's case.

The other enemy of wifi is water tanks - firstly because they are metal
(certainly true for copper hot-water cylinders) and secondly because the
wifi signal is absorbed by water - I believe it is only available for
short-range wifi because its frequency matches a resonant frequency of the
water molecule, rendering it useless for long distance broadcasts if there
is falling rain, clouds or mist in the way. This might affect reception
within the house once you've got the router in the best position for
communicating with the shed.

  #8  
Old June 14th 14, 08:51 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 750
Default Phone cable and networking

Why not use a shrouded yagi such as
http://www.profilant.net/pdf/11100800/$File/R%20700-2700!10%20GB.pdf!Open
or
http://www.rapidonline.com/electrica...i-2-4gs-124511
or
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/wifi-antennas/7032988/
at the shed end and either move the router to somewhere that
will give a better path, or, as someone else suggested, use
an access point - which many routers have the capability of
doing if you have an old one around.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


  #9  
Old June 14th 14, 09:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Phone cable and networking

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:22:50 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

Not _strictly_ telecom, but I'm sure people here will know...

I struggle with 'net our here in my shed, using wifi back to the house.
I get 5 megs on a good day, and dropouts on a bad one. Running an
Ethernet across is on my list... (along with re-roofing the house, so
you'll realise net is a little down the list) but I've just realised the
PO had 'phone out here, so there's an armoured phone cable connecting
back to the house. I didn't count, but I'd guess 16 pairs or so.

Would it carry Ethernet? I don't need much speed - 10 megs is fine. Or
do I need to bring the 'phone signal out here instead?

It's about 15-20 metres.

Andy



Well worth a try, I have successfully done this on several occasions.

You only need two pairs, pins 1&2 and pins 3&6 corresponding to the
orange and green pairs on the RJ45 connectors.



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%
  #10  
Old June 14th 14, 10:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Phone cable and networking

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:36:37 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:22:50 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

I struggle with 'net our here in my shed, using wifi back to the house.
I get 5 megs on a good day, and dropouts on a bad one. Running an
Ethernet across is on my list... (along with re-roofing the house, so
you'll realise net is a little down the list) but I've just realised the
PO had 'phone out here, so there's an armoured phone cable connecting
back to the house. I didn't count, but I'd guess 16 pairs or so.

Would it carry Ethernet? I don't need much speed - 10 megs is fine. Or
do I need to bring the 'phone signal out here instead?

It's about 15-20 metres.


It might work for ethernet; you've got nothing to lose by trying if
the cable is already there, but I would definitely *not* recommend
using it as an unfiltered phone extension and putting the modem/router
in the shed, as this may reduce the data rate. You should seek to
minimise the length of cable which is carrying ADSL.


The way I look at it, the ADSL has probably come several thousand
meters underground in a bundle of pairs intended for audio, with
adjacent pairs carrying various flavours of DSL, ISDN, pair gain
digital protocols, and the occasional line ringing an old inductive
bell, or phone still using spiky DP dialling.

Add to this the fact that the cable may run close to ducts carrying
3ph electricity cables not to mention sodium vapour street lights and
a host of other electrical street furniture.

Is a further 20m of bad practice likely to make a measurable
difference?

--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%
 




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