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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Old style telephone wiring....and BT infinity?



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 21st 14, 10:14 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 182
Default Old style telephone wiring....and BT infinity?

On 21/08/2014 09:57, NY wrote:
"David" wrote in message
...
It was a party line in those days or no phone at all. You could not
upgrade, only when exchanges expanded and more lines run out could you
choose to.


Ah, I hadn't realised that party lines were forced on people because of
shortage of pairs in the overhead/underground wiring or at the exchange.
I'd always thought that it was an option that people selected if they
wanted a cheaper line rental.

Odd that our street had normal phone lines and my friend's street, only
about 1/4 mile away and with houses built a decade or so later, had
party lines - certainly for my friend's house and maybe for other houses
in the street. Maybe the streets went to different exchanges or the
builder of the street economised on the number of pairs that he got GPO
to install.

Ah, looking on Samknows it seems that even now our old house is on
Seacroft exchange and his is on Moortown exchange. We were a hell of a
long way from our exchange - Samknows says normal ADSL is only 1 Mbps.

When were party lines abolished? I suppose the coming of internet was
the big driving factor, since you couldn't have ADSL and even with
dialup there was the risk that the other person would lift their
receiver and the click or their voice would cause the modem connection
to drop.


This was 1962 we had our phone installed in our new house previously we
had no home phone not many had phones back then, you used to go to a
call box there were plenty then and they all worked.

Doubt the internet thought of then, phone were just for talking.

Regards
David
  #22  
Old August 21st 14, 10:27 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Russell Hafter News[_2_]
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Posts: 2
Default Old style telephone wiring....and BT infinity?

In article
, NY
wrote:

Ah, I hadn't realised that party lines were forced on
people because of shortage of pairs in the
overhead/underground wiring or at the exchange.


That was the case in the UK, yes.

I'd always thought that it was an option that people
selected if they wanted a cheaper line rental.


But this was the case in the USA (see my other post).

--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter
E-mail to russell at russellhafter dot me dot uk
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  #23  
Old August 21st 14, 10:36 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
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Posts: 452
Default Old style telephone wiring....and BT infinity?

On 21/08/2014 09:57, NY wrote:

Ah, I hadn't realised that party lines were forced on people because of
shortage of pairs in the overhead/underground wiring or at the exchange.
I'd always thought that it was an option that people selected if they
wanted a cheaper line rental.


No, though IIRC there was a tiny discount if you had to have a party line ?

When were party lines abolished? I suppose the coming of internet was
the big driving factor, since you couldn't have ADSL and even with
dialup there was the risk that the other person would lift their
receiver and the click or their voice would cause the modem connection
to drop.


Party lines vanished in the early 80s I think, well before any domestic
internet activity. However, in many cases where no physical additional
line could be provided, they were replaced by a DACS unit, which
electronically split the feed between the two subscribers.

Further reading:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...Carrier_System

DACs units were still around during the dial up era, and were a PITA,
because they more of less reduced the max (theoretical) connection speed
of 56 kb/s, down to 28 (or less)

When ADSL appeared, DACs were forced to disappear !


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #24  
Old August 21st 14, 10:58 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Adrian C
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Posts: 440
Default Old style telephone wiring....and BT infinity?

On 20/08/14 19:34, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Adrian C
escribió:

That green wire
doesn't do anything, it's from the overhead drop wire unused pair.


Not the green wire, the bare twisted copper earth wire that seems to
come out the back of the box in one of your photos. That would
originally have gone to a lead water pipe, an earth rod, or sometimes
simply a sheet of lead buried in the ground.

Its purpose was to provide the common earth return of a pair of party
lines. Going back some time now :-)


Way before me time there compared to all you folk. My earliest
experience of shenanigans on the phone was dial-a-disc!

That bare wire travels back a short distance and then it must have
succumbed to a BT pair of wirecutters, as they upgraded the overhead
wiring some time ago. The remaining route for that earth wire further
back is hidden, covered up in plaster and paint, but I guess it must
somewhere meet the water main which is piped directly below.

Thanks Mike, an interesting read


--
Adrian C
  #25  
Old August 21st 14, 11:43 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
NY
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Posts: 470
Default Old style telephone wiring....and BT infinity?

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 21/08/2014 09:57, NY wrote:

Party lines vanished in the early 80s I think, well before any domestic
internet activity. However, in many cases where no physical additional
line could be provided, they were replaced by a DACS unit, which
electronically split the feed between the two subscribers.

Further reading:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...Carrier_System

DACs units were still around during the dial up era, and were a PITA,
because they more of less reduced the max (theoretical) connection speed
of 56 kb/s, down to 28 (or less)

When ADSL appeared, DACs were forced to disappear !


DACSs were definitely a PITA. My parents have a holiday cottage in the
Yorkshire Dales, in a remote village of 2 farms and 10 houses, several miles
from the nearest town (and the exchange). Until about 5 years ago, their
phone was provided via a shared line and a DACS, and the call quality was
appalling - fuzzy, crackly and with echo as if the phone were at the other
end of a drainpipe. Very often the line would fail completely, with no
dialling tone and a permanent ringing tone for incoming calls. BT kept
"fixing" it and the fault kept coming back. Dial-up was not too bad - I
think I got about 33 kbps rather the 45 or so that I got at home.

Then BT did some work in a building (not an exchange - it was shared with a
high voltage electricity station) a few hundred yards away and notified
everyone in the village that they would need to do "some work" (removal of
DACS?) at each house which would enable broadband. Once they'd done it, I
ordered broadband there and we get about 4 Mbps which is bloody incredible
considering that the line length is about 5 km *as the crow flies* and
probably about 7 km if the lines follow the roads by the shortest route.

  #26  
Old August 21st 14, 12:16 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
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Posts: 2,728
Default Old style telephone wiring....and BT infinity?

On 21/08/14 10:36, Mark Carver wrote:
On 21/08/2014 09:57, NY wrote:

Ah, I hadn't realised that party lines were forced on people because of
shortage of pairs in the overhead/underground wiring or at the exchange.
I'd always thought that it was an option that people selected if they
wanted a cheaper line rental.


No, though IIRC there was a tiny discount if you had to have a party line ?

When were party lines abolished? I suppose the coming of internet was
the big driving factor, since you couldn't have ADSL and even with
dialup there was the risk that the other person would lift their
receiver and the click or their voice would cause the modem connection
to drop.


Party lines vanished in the early 80s I think, well before any domestic
internet activity. However, in many cases where no physical additional
line could be provided, they were replaced by a DACS unit, which
electronically split the feed between the two subscribers.

Further reading:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...Carrier_System

DACs units were still around during the dial up era, and were a PITA,
because they more of less reduced the max (theoretical) connection speed
of 56 kb/s, down to 28 (or less)

When ADSL appeared, DACs were forced to disappear !


Acquaintance in the village wanted broadband and was on DACS and that
was two years ago.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. - Erwin Knoll
  #27  
Old August 21st 14, 12:17 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
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Posts: 723
Default Old style telephone wiring....and BT infinity?

Mark Carver wrote:
On 21/08/2014 09:57, NY wrote:

Ah, I hadn't realised that party lines were forced on people because of
shortage of pairs in the overhead/underground wiring or at the exchange.
I'd always thought that it was an option that people selected if they
wanted a cheaper line rental.


No, though IIRC there was a tiny discount if you had to have a party line ?

When were party lines abolished? I suppose the coming of internet was
the big driving factor, since you couldn't have ADSL and even with
dialup there was the risk that the other person would lift their
receiver and the click or their voice would cause the modem connection
to drop.


Party lines vanished in the early 80s I think, well before any domestic
internet activity. However, in many cases where no physical additional
line could be provided, they were replaced by a DACS unit, which
electronically split the feed between the two subscribers.

Further reading:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...Carrier_System

DACs units were still around during the dial up era, and were a PITA,
because they more of less reduced the max (theoretical) connection speed
of 56 kb/s, down to 28 (or less)

When ADSL appeared, DACs were forced to disappear !


Your link suggests DACS was not introducted until 1990, so I suspect
some party lines remained until then - probably in rural areas where
there wer few new subscribers. I suspect in towns BT found it
worthwhile to install more cables.

--
Graham J

  #28  
Old August 21st 14, 05:47 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 452
Default Old style telephone wiring....and BT infinity?

On 21/08/2014 12:17, Graham J wrote:

Your link suggests DACS was not introducted until 1990, so I suspect
some party lines remained until then - probably in rural areas where
there wer few new subscribers. I suspect in towns BT found it
worthwhile to install more cables.


It also says WB900 analogue splitters were used from 1980 (until 1990),
I was using the term 'DACS' in a colloquial manner ;-)

So it seems the Party Line's days were numbered from 1980 ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #29  
Old August 21st 14, 11:38 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
bert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default Old style telephone wiring....and BT infinity?

In message , NY
writes
When were party lines abolished?

When the telephone service was privatised and no longer ripped off to
support the postal service.
--
bert
  #30  
Old August 21st 14, 11:48 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Mike Tomlinson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 285
Default Old style telephone wiring....and BT infinity?

En el artículo , bert ]
escribió:
In message , NY
writes
When were party lines abolished?


When the telephone service was privatised and no longer ripped off to
support the postal service.


When exchanges were migrated from Strowger/crossbar (electromechanical)
to System X, actually.

--
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(='.'=)
(")_(")
 




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