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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

BT internet blocking some incoming emails



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 5th 14, 03:21 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 492
Default BT internet blocking some incoming emails

Has anyone experienced problems with BT Internet blocking some incoming
emails to btinternet.com addresses?

I've got a customer whose ISP is BT. He has several email addresses (one
master and several slave addresses) associated with this.

He's just taken out a domain with 123 and has a mailbox with them. So I've
set up an Outlook account to receive from 123's POP and to send via 123's
SMTP; in the latter case with SMTP authentication (same as POP) turned on
and using port 465 and SSL (on 123's advice).

Incoming emails to this address work fine. From this account he can send
emails to non-BT addresses and they get through fine. But emails to his BT
addresses disappear into a black hole with no error message. Emails sent
from an Outlook account that uses BT's SMTP server and quotes a BT "from"
address to any address (BT, or non BT, including the domain address) work
fine.

123's logging shows that they send to BT's servers and get a receipt
acknowledgement, so it looks as if the blockage is at BT's end.

Does anyone know of a problem with BT's servers accepting email from some
addresses?

One added complication is that so far as I've been testing it, I've been
connected over my own Plusnet connection (I've borrowed his laptop to
investigate) and the IP address quoted in the email is on a blocked IP list
(apparently), so I'm waiting to retry it from the customer's BT connection
and therefore with a BT-allocated IP. However it failed initially from his
line, even when initially sending via BT's SMTP server using a BT email
address and password as an authentication address - again, with no error
message. But it was on 123's advice that I switched to their SMTP - shame
because it meant the customer has to pay for a mailbox whereas mail
forwarding to a BT account (which is free) works fine for incoming mail but
fails in the same way for outgoing.


How good are BT at investigating this sort of thing: can the first-line
support escalate things to people who can investigate this? And do they have
a means of raising support calls from a web site rather than having to hang
on the phone for ages and then explain the problem to someone whose first
language isn't English?

  #2  
Old September 5th 14, 05:04 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Davey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 583
Default BT internet blocking some incoming emails

On Fri, 5 Sep 2014 15:21:00 +0100
"NY" wrote:

Has anyone experienced problems with BT Internet blocking some
incoming emails to btinternet.com addresses?

I've got a customer whose ISP is BT. He has several email addresses
(one master and several slave addresses) associated with this.

He's just taken out a domain with 123 and has a mailbox with them. So
I've set up an Outlook account to receive from 123's POP and to send
via 123's SMTP; in the latter case with SMTP authentication (same as
POP) turned on and using port 465 and SSL (on 123's advice).

Incoming emails to this address work fine. From this account he can
send emails to non-BT addresses and they get through fine. But emails
to his BT addresses disappear into a black hole with no error
message. Emails sent from an Outlook account that uses BT's SMTP
server and quotes a BT "from" address to any address (BT, or non BT,
including the domain address) work fine.

123's logging shows that they send to BT's servers and get a receipt
acknowledgement, so it looks as if the blockage is at BT's end.

Does anyone know of a problem with BT's servers accepting email from
some addresses?

One added complication is that so far as I've been testing it, I've
been connected over my own Plusnet connection (I've borrowed his
laptop to investigate) and the IP address quoted in the email is on a
blocked IP list (apparently), so I'm waiting to retry it from the
customer's BT connection and therefore with a BT-allocated IP.
However it failed initially from his line, even when initially
sending via BT's SMTP server using a BT email address and password as
an authentication address - again, with no error message. But it was
on 123's advice that I switched to their SMTP - shame because it
meant the customer has to pay for a mailbox whereas mail forwarding
to a BT account (which is free) works fine for incoming mail but
fails in the same way for outgoing.


How good are BT at investigating this sort of thing: can the
first-line support escalate things to people who can investigate
this? And do they have a means of raising support calls from a web
site rather than having to hang on the phone for ages and then
explain the problem to someone whose first language isn't English?


I had a similar problem in the US with AT&T, sorry, att&t. They would
block whole blocks of IP addresses because one was deemed by them to
be a spam source, but they wouldn't tell anybody.
Was I glad to get back to the UK, with a choice of ISP, not the one
that supplied the 'phone line. Land of the Free? Pah!

If my att&t experience is any indication, BT will be of no help
whatsoever. Good Luck!

--
Davey.
  #3  
Old September 5th 14, 06:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 492
Default BT internet blocking some incoming emails

"Davey" wrote in message
...
If my att&t experience is any indication, BT will be of no help
whatsoever. Good Luck!


Oh thanks for those kind words ;-)

It takes a special kind of stupid to block IP addresses that they themselves
have issued, if that's what the cause turns out to be.

I'm glad it's turned out to be a BT problem and not a 123 problem since I
was the one that mentioned the name 123 (amongst others) to the customer. On
the other hand, 123's investigation of the problem so far, as I've been
trying to point the finger of guilt, has been superb, so if it had turned
out to be their problem at least it would probably have been fixed in a
similarly competent manner.

  #4  
Old September 5th 14, 07:20 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Davey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 583
Default BT internet blocking some incoming emails

On Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:17:19 +0100
"NY" wrote:

It takes a special kind of stupid to block IP addresses that they
themselves have issued, if that's what the cause turns out to be.


at&t also put one of its own Update messages into the Spam folder. So
stupid seems to come with the territory!

Again, Good Luck.

--
Davey.
  #5  
Old September 6th 14, 08:35 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
bert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default BT internet blocking some incoming emails

In message , NY
writes
"Davey" wrote in message
...
If my att&t experience is any indication, BT will be of no help
whatsoever. Good Luck!


Oh thanks for those kind words ;-)

It takes a special kind of stupid to block IP addresses that they
themselves have issued, if that's what the cause turns out to be.

I'm glad it's turned out to be a BT problem and not a 123 problem since
I was the one that mentioned the name 123 (amongst others) to the
customer. On the other hand, 123's investigation of the problem so far,
as I've been trying to point the finger of guilt, has been superb, so
if it had turned out to be their problem at least it would probably
have been fixed in a similarly competent manner.

I take it you've done the obvious and checked the account spam folder.
BT's filters area bit aggressive
--
bert
  #6  
Old September 6th 14, 10:08 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 492
Default BT internet blocking some incoming emails

"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , NY
writes
"Davey" wrote in message
...
If my att&t experience is any indication, BT will be of no help
whatsoever. Good Luck!


Oh thanks for those kind words ;-)

It takes a special kind of stupid to block IP addresses that they
themselves have issued, if that's what the cause turns out to be.

I'm glad it's turned out to be a BT problem and not a 123 problem since I
was the one that mentioned the name 123 (amongst others) to the customer.
On the other hand, 123's investigation of the problem so far, as I've been
trying to point the finger of guilt, has been superb, so if it had turned
out to be their problem at least it would probably have been fixed in a
similarly competent manner.

I take it you've done the obvious and checked the account spam folder.
BT's filters are a bit aggressive


The weird thing is that the email was not arriving in either the inbox *or*
the spam folder. I found a workaround: I defined the sender's email address
as a "safe sender" on the webmail "settings | mail | safe senders" page.
That worked.

But it's not the right solution: I imagine that the same problem could
affect *any* BT address that the sender sends to. I've emailed BT support to
ask them to fix their spam filter properly so it's not necessary to add it
as a safe sender for each of the customer's BT addresses. Let's see what
their reply is... I've also asked why the email disappeared completely
instead of being received at least in the spam folder if not the inbox - it
should have gone to one or the other.

  #7  
Old September 7th 14, 10:02 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Flop
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default BT internet blocking some incoming emails

On 06/09/2014 22:08, NY wrote:

I've emailed BT support to ask them to fix their spam filter properly.


What makes you think they will get it?

--

Flop

Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children
  #8  
Old September 8th 14, 03:04 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
PlusNet Support Team
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 995
Default BT internet blocking some incoming emails

On 06/09/2014 22:08, NY wrote:
--8--SNIP--8--
But it's not the right solution: I imagine that the same problem could
affect *any* BT address that the sender sends to. I've emailed BT
support to ask them to fix their spam filter properly so it's not
necessary to add it as a safe sender for each of the customer's BT
addresses. Let's see what their reply is... I've also asked why the
email disappeared completely instead of being received at least in the
spam folder if not the inbox - it should have gone to one or the other.


I believe BT use these folk for email filtering/edge protection -
http://owmessaging.com/

Could possibly be due to how they have this configured? Failing that
Openwave might not like 123's SMTP servers for one reason or another.
It's odd to accept the message though, rather than reject it at the SMTP
layer.

Having said that, I'm a tad confused, you say the email gets lost in an
abyss, yet you then go on to say:

One added complication is that so far as I've been testing it, I've been connected over my own Plusnet connection (I've borrowed his laptop to investigate) and the IP address quoted in the email is on a blocked IP list (apparently), so I'm waiting to retry it from the customer's BT connection and therefore with a BT-allocated IP.


IP address quoted in /what/ email? This reads to me that you're
receiving some sort of NDR or failure reason?

Note that the IP of your Plusnet connection or otherwise should be
largely irrelevant here.

Broadband connection - Local SMTP server - Remote MTA - Recipient

Any IP checking should be done by the Remote MTA and the IP it should be
checking is that of the local SMTP server and *not* that of your
broadband connection (which I would expect to be on various blacklists
because it's probably dynamic and shouldn't be used to sent mail directly).

--
|Bob Pullen Broadband Solutions for
|Support Home & Business @
|Plusnet Plc. www.plus.net
+--------------- twitter.com/plusnet ----------------
  #9  
Old September 8th 14, 04:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 492
Default BT internet blocking some incoming emails

"Plusnet Support Team" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 06/09/2014 22:08, NY wrote:
--8--SNIP--8--
Having said that, I'm a tad confused, you say the email gets lost in an
abyss, yet you then go on to say:

One added complication is that so far as I've been testing it, I've been
connected over my own Plusnet connection (I've borrowed his laptop to
investigate) and the IP address quoted in the email is on a blocked IP
list (apparently), so I'm waiting to retry it from the customer's BT
connection and therefore with a BT-allocated IP.


IP address quoted in /what/ email? This reads to me that you're receiving
some sort of NDR or failure reason?

Note that the IP of your Plusnet connection or otherwise should be largely
irrelevant here.

Broadband connection - Local SMTP server - Remote MTA - Recipient

Any IP checking should be done by the Remote MTA and the IP it should be
checking is that of the local SMTP server and *not* that of your broadband
connection (which I would expect to be on various blacklists because it's
probably dynamic and shouldn't be used to sent mail directly).


123 seemed to imply that my IP address was the one that was being passed to
the remote MTA and then perhaps being rejected because it's blacklisted.
This is based on the test emails that I sent from PC via (in this case) my
Plusnet connection to 123's SMTP server (where it appeared on 123's
diagnostic log) for onward delivery to BT's remote MTA and the recipient.
This is why they wondered whether results would be any different if I
repeated the test with exactly the same PC config but connected to the
customer's BT connection - but it didn't make any difference.

I've not heard back from the customer as to how/whether BT have responded to
the support request that I made.

The fact that BT block the email until I add the sender's address to a "safe
sender's" list suggests that their spam blocking is seeing the newly created
domain referred to in the sender's email address (which is of the form
) and rejecting it until proved to be safe by being in the
safe sender's list. Surely the better strategy is to accept email from any
address unless proved to be bad, rather than reject from any address unless
proved to be good.

  #10  
Old September 9th 14, 02:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 492
Default BT internet blocking some incoming emails

"Anthony R. Gold" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 16:27:04 +0100, "NY" wrote:

Surely the better strategy is to accept email from any
address unless proved to be bad, rather than reject from any address
unless
proved to be good.


Any "strategy" that results in mail being rejected without notification to
either the sender or the addressee is one that is unfit for service.


Agreed. And what a surprise. My customer has just reported that BT Internet
*still* haven't responded to the support call - indeed it seems to have
disappeared altogether. What a crap ISP :-(

 




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