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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

BT Engineer visits for intermittent line noise and broadband dropouts, now using the phone cuts broadband



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 11th 14, 07:40 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 378
Default BT Engineer visits for intermittent line noise and broadband dropouts, now using the phone cuts broadband

As per title ...

I live out in the wilds of Scotland.

Around a month or two back, a neighbour using a mower cut through all
the local lines in a cable which was never buried properly, and left
lying on the verge. For a week or so we used connections remade in a
plastic bag resting on the verge. This has now been fixed, and that
section of the line has been buried rather more effectively, but much
of the line is still running above ground along the verge, and
inspection boxes have broken covers and have water in the bottom of
them.

Until about then, I had solid broadband, albeit slow, but since have
had intermittent noise on phone line and broadband dropouts. A week
ago had a BT Voice Engineer call. He did some tests, declared the
line healthy, and left after about an hour of tests. Since then, I
have been unable to use the phone. Connecting the BT Cordless phone
base station brings down the broadband immediately, connecting an
old-fashioned phone is fine until one tries to dial or simply replace
the handset, when that too cuts the broadband.

Any ideas what the engineer may have done?
--
================================================== =======
UK Residents: If you feel can possibly support it
please sign the following ePetition
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  #2  
Old November 11th 14, 11:16 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 723
Default BT Engineer visits for intermittent line noise and broadbanddropouts, now using the phone cuts broadband

Java Jive wrote:
As per title ...

I live out in the wilds of Scotland.

Around a month or two back, a neighbour using a mower cut through all
the local lines in a cable which was never buried properly, and left
lying on the verge. For a week or so we used connections remade in a
plastic bag resting on the verge. This has now been fixed, and that
section of the line has been buried rather more effectively, but much
of the line is still running above ground along the verge, and
inspection boxes have broken covers and have water in the bottom of
them.

Until about then, I had solid broadband, albeit slow, but since have
had intermittent noise on phone line and broadband dropouts. A week
ago had a BT Voice Engineer call. He did some tests, declared the
line healthy, and left after about an hour of tests. Since then, I
have been unable to use the phone. Connecting the BT Cordless phone
base station brings down the broadband immediately, connecting an
old-fashioned phone is fine until one tries to dial or simply replace
the handset, when that too cuts the broadband.

Any ideas what the engineer may have done?


Almost anything.

However, if using a wired phone breaks your broadband, your ISP can call
out Openreach to fix the problem. Whether your ISP will, depends on the
ISP.

--
Graham J


  #3  
Old November 11th 14, 11:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 378
Default BT Engineer visits for intermittent line noise and broadband dropouts, now using the phone cuts broadband

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 22:16:51 +0000, Graham J
wrote:

Java Jive wrote:

Any ideas what the engineer may have done?


Almost anything.

However, if using a wired phone breaks your broadband, your ISP ...


Plusnet

... can call
out Openreach to fix the problem. Whether your ISP will, depends on the
ISP.


An engineer is due to visit on Thursday, but I've been warned if
nothing wrong is found, that a charge of 60 will be applied.
--
================================================== =======
UK Residents: If you feel can possibly support it
please sign the following ePetition
before closing time of 30/03/2015 23:59:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/71556
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
  #4  
Old November 12th 14, 12:05 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 210
Default BT Engineer visits for intermittent line noise and broadbanddropouts, now using the phone cuts broadband

Java Jive wrote:

An engineer is due to visit on Thursday, but I've been warned if
nothing wrong is found, that a charge of 60 will be applied.


Assuming you've eliminated your own wiring (by using a microfilter +
wired phone + router plugged into the test socket) it sounds like simply
lifting the receiver will demonstrate a fault ...


  #5  
Old November 12th 14, 10:11 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 686
Default BT Engineer visits for intermittent line noise and broadband dropouts, now using the phone cuts broadband

"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 22:16:51 +0000, Graham J

wrote:

Java Jive wrote:

Any ideas what the engineer may have done?


Almost anything.

However, if using a wired phone breaks your broadband,
your ISP ...


Plusnet

... can call
out Openreach to fix the problem. Whether your ISP will,
depends on the
ISP.


An engineer is due to visit on Thursday, but I've been
warned if
nothing wrong is found, that a charge of 60 will be
applied.
--


Eh? That's cheap. I've been dealing with a loss of sync
problem for an elderly neighbour with P.O. Boradband (i.e.
Talk Talk) who warned that the charge would be 130 if the
call was NFF. It turned out to be NFF but they never imposed
the charge. We are now on router 3 all of which have had
different problems, but an Echolink (Huawei) router that I
recovered from the local tip seems to work perfectly.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


  #6  
Old November 12th 14, 12:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
PlusNet Support Team
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 990
Default BT Engineer visits for intermittent line noise and broadbanddropouts, now using the phone cuts broadband

On 12/11/2014 09:11, Woody wrote:
"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 22:16:51 +0000, Graham J

wrote:

Java Jive wrote:

Any ideas what the engineer may have done?

Almost anything.

However, if using a wired phone breaks your broadband,
your ISP ...


Plusnet

... can call
out Openreach to fix the problem. Whether your ISP will,
depends on the
ISP.


An engineer is due to visit on Thursday, but I've been
warned if
nothing wrong is found, that a charge of 60 will be
applied.
--


Eh? That's cheap. I've been dealing with a loss of sync
problem for an elderly neighbour with P.O. Boradband (i.e.
Talk Talk) who warned that the charge would be 130 if the
call was NFF. It turned out to be NFF but they never imposed
the charge. We are now on router 3 all of which have had
different problems, but an Echolink (Huawei) router that I
recovered from the local tip seems to work perfectly.


We don't always pass on the full charge.

Regardless, and as Andy has mentioned, as long as the OP has carried out
all the tests we've asked of them then there's little to worry about.

--
|Bob Pullen Broadband Solutions for
|Support Home & Business @
|Plusnet Plc. www.plus.net
+--------------- twitter.com/plusnet ----------------
  #7  
Old November 14th 14, 10:53 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Robert[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default BT Engineer visits for intermittent line noise and broadbanddropouts, now using the phone cuts broadband

On 11/11/2014 18:40, Java Jive wrote:
As per title ...

I live out in the wilds of Scotland.

Around a month or two back, a neighbour using a mower cut through all
the local lines in a cable which was never buried properly, and left
lying on the verge. For a week or so we used connections remade in a
plastic bag resting on the verge. This has now been fixed, and that
section of the line has been buried rather more effectively, but much
of the line is still running above ground along the verge, and
inspection boxes have broken covers and have water in the bottom of
them.

Until about then, I had solid broadband, albeit slow, but since have
had intermittent noise on phone line and broadband dropouts. A week
ago had a BT Voice Engineer call. He did some tests, declared the
line healthy, and left after about an hour of tests. Since then, I
have been unable to use the phone. Connecting the BT Cordless phone
base station brings down the broadband immediately, connecting an
old-fashioned phone is fine until one tries to dial or simply replace
the handset, when that too cuts the broadband.

Any ideas what the engineer may have done?
--
================================================== =======
UK Residents: If you feel can possibly support it
please sign the following ePetition
before closing time of 30/03/2015 23:59:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/71556
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html


Sounds almost as if he has removed your ADSL filtering.

Did you have a standard master socket voice faceplate to which you
attach external filters, or an ADSL faceplate with internal filters and
an ADSL and a voice socket on the front?

If you had external filters (the sort that dangle from the voice socket,
with your phone cable plugged into the open end) - has he replaced them
and do they work? If you have spares you can try (even borrow a
neighbours?) that might diagnose it.

If the filters are internal inside an ADSL faceplate then maybe he has
disconnected something inside the faceplate and "broken" the filtering.
You are allowed to remove the faceplate and fiddle with wiring attached
to it - but you are NOT allowed to fiddle with wiring inside the master
socket box itself.
  #8  
Old November 14th 14, 11:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 378
Default BT Engineer visits for intermittent line noise and broadband dropouts, now using the phone cuts broadband

The plot has moved on and the waters muddied considerably, but,
however obscure the reasons for the previous problems described above,
at least I now have both a working phone and ADSL.

I'd tried two routers, two phones, and three filters, with broadly
similar results. Connecting and/or using a phone dropped the ADSL.
Accordingly, I left neither phone connected, as, having a mobile, the
broadband connection was much more important to me.

I waited in all yesterday morning, but the BT Engineer didn't show, so
I suggested to Plusnet that it would be appropriate for me to charge
them at their standard rate under such circumstances, 60.

An engineer rang my mobile this morning, said he was testing my
landline connection at the exchange, and would be along to my home
shortly. Needless to say, by the time he arrived and began checking,
the phone problem had somehow disappeared! He couldn't get the
cordless phone to work at all, but claimed that using the
old-fashioned phone, he rang his mobile in the van three times,
without dropping the broadband, and demonstrated to me that this was
so.

So I don't know what he did to fix it, which is worrying, in case it
happens again, but at least the problem is fixed.

Next we turned our attention to the cordless handset. I tried the
second phone, which I hadn't thought to try before, and it worked. So
I simply tried removing the batteries of the faulty one, and
re-inserting them, which also I hadn't thought to try before, and that
fixed that, except that it seemed the batteries had almost lost their
ability to hold charge. So I changed them for new ones, and that
fixed that.

Next we looked at the line between the socket and outside, as he'd
noticed that the line apparently coming in from outside was internal
wiring, and when he checked the external terminal box the incoming
line leaving that was external, so we concluded that the pillocks who
had put in the wall lining and/or the double-glazing had hidden the
original master-socket behind the wall-lining! Jeez, if only I could
get my hands warmly grasped around a DIY-botching neck or three!

So I have no idea what type of master socket I actually have, it could
be almost anything from the entire history of BT sockets ...

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 21:53:16 +0000, Robert
wrote:

Sounds almost as if he has removed your ADSL filtering.

Did you have a standard master socket voice faceplate to which you
attach external filters, or an ADSL faceplate with internal filters and
an ADSL and a voice socket on the front?

--
================================================== =======
UK Residents: If you feel can possibly support it
please sign the following ePetition
before closing time of 30/03/2015 23:59:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/71556
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
  #9  
Old November 15th 14, 10:47 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 723
Default BT Engineer visits for intermittent line noise and broadbanddropouts, now using the phone cuts broadband

Java Jive wrote:
The plot has moved on and the waters muddied considerably, but,
however obscure the reasons for the previous problems described above,
at least I now have both a working phone and ADSL.

I'd tried two routers, two phones, and three filters, with broadly
similar results. Connecting and/or using a phone dropped the ADSL.
Accordingly, I left neither phone connected, as, having a mobile, the
broadband connection was much more important to me.

I waited in all yesterday morning, but the BT Engineer didn't show, so
I suggested to Plusnet that it would be appropriate for me to charge
them at their standard rate under such circumstances, 60.


Do let us know whether Plusnet pay you any money.

Under similar circumstances Zen have refunded mondy to me.


An engineer rang my mobile this morning, said he was testing my
landline connection at the exchange, and would be along to my home
shortly. Needless to say, by the time he arrived and began checking,
the phone problem had somehow disappeared! He couldn't get the
cordless phone to work at all, but claimed that using the
old-fashioned phone, he rang his mobile in the van three times,
without dropping the broadband, and demonstrated to me that this was
so.


The moral of this is to always test with the most basic wired phone you
can find. You can get one for about 7 from Curry's.

So I don't know what he did to fix it, which is worrying, in case it
happens again, but at least the problem is fixed.


Always ask the engineer what the thinks he did to fix it. If he can't
explain clearly, then he has not in fact fixed it, perhaps only made a
temporary cure.

In your case I would suggest that he avoided using your cordless phone.
Did you in fact confirm that the fault previously existed with the
old-fashioned phone? You are not explicitly clear on this point. If it
did exist, and later the engineer found it worked OK, then he must have
done something else.

In general, if your internal wiring is all kosher, and you have a
correctly-installed BT master socket, the problem of incoming and/or
outgoing calls causing the ADSL to drop is well known.

It is caused by a diode-like joint (poorly crimped, and corroded,
possibly between dissimmilar metals - aluminium & copper) somewhere
between your master socket and the exchange. When the phone is off-hook
some dc flows (nominally 25mA) and this change in current can
dramatically alter the AC performance of the diode-like joint -
injecting noise into the ADSL spectrum. This forces the router to
re-sync. So you often get a re-sync event as a call starts, and another
one as a call ends.

The problem further aggravated by the ringing current announcing an
incoming call. This is 17Hz at up to about 75v rms so depending on the
impedance of the bell circuit the peak current could be well over 25mA -
again, this can inject noise via the diode-like joint. So sometimes it
is only incoming calls that break the ADSL.

You can sometimes hear the effect of the diode-like joint. Power off
your router, and dial 17070 option 2 for the "quiet line test". The
line should be completely quiet - if you can hear any noise report it to
your voice provider, and don't mention broadband (it only confuses
them!). Now power up the router. Ideally there should be no increase
in noise. If there is, but it is at the threshold of detectability, you
can tolerate it. Anything more needs attention - first try a known good
microfilter.

In theory the visiting Openreach engineer knows about this and will hunt
down the diode-like joint. In practise you might have to explain it ...

You may also find that the line tests the engineeer has to run, together
with making and receiving several calls, will cause the diode-like joint
to heal - temporarily! So the problem may come back.

--
Graham J






  #10  
Old November 15th 14, 11:49 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ted
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default BT Engineer visits for intermittent line noise and broadbanddropouts, now using the phone cuts broadband


You may also find that the line tests the engineeer has to run, together
with making and receiving several calls, will cause the diode-like joint
to heal - temporarily! So the problem may come back.


Yup. I had this problem for years at my previous house.

Each time the line was tested or someone rang the line the crackling
noise immediately disappeared, sometimes for a few hours and sometimes
for several days, but it always came back, causing the ADSL to re-sync
at lower and lower speeds.

Now... Apparently no-one at BT had ever heard of, or had any
understanding of, such a fault ever existing (or that's the way they
presented). Each time they would just say "we have tested the line and
it is ok. If we send an engineer and he can't find a fault you will be
charged 90" (or whatever). They did charge me on two occasions but I
vigorously disputed it and got it refunded.

As ringing the line would stop the noise for a while, I developed the
habit of regularly calling my line each morning from a mobile and just
letting it ring (ringer on phone off) for as long as it would.

Despite numerous letters with a detailed history included, and phone
conversations with "senior managers" and "technical troubleshooters" the
problem was never resolved.

When I moved house, I was so pleased to find my new house had a
perfectly quiet line and ADSL synced solidly at full speed!!!

 




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