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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Up to 38Mb and up to 76 Mb



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 23rd 15, 06:35 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 182
Default Up to 38Mb and up to 76 Mb

The annual consideration of ISP as arrived.
A year ago ISPs were offer me 2 FTTC services at up to 38Mb and up to 76
Mb. My present searches are only locating services of up to 38Mb, is
this something others have noted?

I'm on up to 38Mb with estimates of 30Mb and wondering why now my line
will not support faster.
Plusnet quoted me both services but both estimated 30 Mb.
Regards
David
  #2  
Old February 23rd 15, 07:30 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 458
Default Up to 38Mb and up to 76 Mb

On 23/02/2015 18:35, David wrote:
The annual consideration of ISP as arrived.
A year ago ISPs were offer me 2 FTTC services at up to 38Mb and up to 76
Mb. My present searches are only locating services of up to 38Mb, is
this something others have noted?

I'm on up to 38Mb with estimates of 30Mb and wondering why now my line
will not support faster.
Plusnet quoted me both services but both estimated 30 Mb.


That's right, because your line will only sync at around 30 Mb/s.

ISPs offer two versions of FTTC, one that is capped at 38 Mb/s, and the
other that is capped at 76 Mb/s. However the 76 Mb/s version is only any
good for folk who live nearer to the cabinet, and can therefore attain a
speed of 39 Mb/s or higher.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #3  
Old February 24th 15, 02:36 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Brian Gregory
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 123
Default Up to 38Mb and up to 76 Mb

On 23/02/2015 19:30, Mark Carver wrote:
On 23/02/2015 18:35, David wrote:
The annual consideration of ISP as arrived.
A year ago ISPs were offer me 2 FTTC services at up to 38Mb and up to 76
Mb. My present searches are only locating services of up to 38Mb, is
this something others have noted?

I'm on up to 38Mb with estimates of 30Mb and wondering why now my line
will not support faster.
Plusnet quoted me both services but both estimated 30 Mb.


That's right, because your line will only sync at around 30 Mb/s.

ISPs offer two versions of FTTC, one that is capped at 38 Mb/s, and the
other that is capped at 76 Mb/s. However the 76 Mb/s version is only any
good for folk who live nearer to the cabinet, and can therefore attain a
speed of 39 Mb/s or higher.


Usually you have to have 76Mb/s down in order to get 19Mb/s up (rather
than 9.5Mb/s up).

But maybe a line that can't go over 38Mb/s down isn't going to be
capable of going faster than 9.5Mb/s up either?

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.
  #4  
Old February 24th 15, 06:47 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 458
Default Up to 38Mb and up to 76 Mb

On 24/02/2015 02:36, Brian Gregory wrote:

Usually you have to have 76Mb/s down in order to get 19Mb/s up (rather
than 9.5Mb/s up).

But maybe a line that can't go over 38Mb/s down isn't going to be
capable of going faster than 9.5Mb/s up either?


Probably not in most cases. I was on a 76/20 connection.
Actual speeds for me are 33 down, and 6.5 up. I recently
downgraded to a 38/10 connection, which of course made absolutely
no difference to my speeds, but has saved me 7 quid/mth



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #5  
Old February 24th 15, 07:49 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 182
Default Up to 38Mb and up to 76 Mb

On 24/02/2015 06:47, Mark Carver wrote:
On 24/02/2015 02:36, Brian Gregory wrote:

Usually you have to have 76Mb/s down in order to get 19Mb/s up (rather
than 9.5Mb/s up).

But maybe a line that can't go over 38Mb/s down isn't going to be
capable of going faster than 9.5Mb/s up either?


Probably not in most cases. I was on a 76/20 connection.
Actual speeds for me are 33 down, and 6.5 up. I recently
downgraded to a 38/10 connection, which of course made absolutely
no difference to my speeds, but has saved me 7 quid/mth



That's how I would have ended up if I had proceeded with my purchase of
Plusnet and BT "faster" services by paying more for same speed.
Seems a bit dishonest to me but of course as always when buying anything
buyer beware.
Present ISP Sky declined to offer me faster.

Do we know what the BT Network are doing about the problem of limit of
38Mb on lines?
Is it an area thing from a particular cabinet or just some lines from it
being in poor condition?
EG I can't but my neighbour next door might to able to because his
copper is better.
Regards
David

  #6  
Old February 24th 15, 10:14 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 562
Default Up to 38Mb and up to 76 Mb

On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 07:49:09 +0000, David wrote:

Usually you have to have 76Mb/s down in order to get 19Mb/s up (rather
than 9.5Mb/s up).

But maybe a line that can't go over 38Mb/s down isn't going to be
capable of going faster than 9.5Mb/s up either?


Probably not in most cases. I was on a 76/20 connection.
Actual speeds for me are 33 down, and 6.5 up. I recently
downgraded to a 38/10 connection, which of course made absolutely
no difference to my speeds, but has saved me 7 quid/mth



That's how I would have ended up if I had proceeded with my purchase of
Plusnet and BT "faster" services by paying more for same speed.
Seems a bit dishonest to me but of course as always when buying anything
buyer beware.


The agents who sell the services probably just don't understand. I was
offered the 76Mb/s service even though the BT availability check
website indicated that the line wasn't capable of giving me more than
about 30, so it would be more sensible for me to opt for the 38Mb/s
service. I actually get about 26 down, 5.5 up, with which I am quite
happy, but if I hadn't reasoned the figures out for myself I'd
probably have ended up with a performance that was no better on a more
expensive service. As you say, buyer beware.

Rod.
  #7  
Old February 24th 15, 10:32 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown
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Posts: 343
Default Up to 38Mb and up to 76 Mb

On 24/02/2015 10:14, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 07:49:09 +0000, David wrote:

Usually you have to have 76Mb/s down in order to get 19Mb/s up (rather
than 9.5Mb/s up).

But maybe a line that can't go over 38Mb/s down isn't going to be
capable of going faster than 9.5Mb/s up either?

Probably not in most cases. I was on a 76/20 connection.
Actual speeds for me are 33 down, and 6.5 up. I recently
downgraded to a 38/10 connection, which of course made absolutely
no difference to my speeds, but has saved me 7 quid/mth

That's how I would have ended up if I had proceeded with my purchase of
Plusnet and BT "faster" services by paying more for same speed.
Seems a bit dishonest to me but of course as always when buying anything
buyer beware.


The agents who sell the services probably just don't understand. I was


What they understand is that their bonus is bigger if they sign you up
to the fastest service irrespective of whether the line will take it!

offered the 76Mb/s service even though the BT availability check
website indicated that the line wasn't capable of giving me more than
about 30, so it would be more sensible for me to opt for the 38Mb/s
service. I actually get about 26 down, 5.5 up, with which I am quite
happy, but if I hadn't reasoned the figures out for myself I'd
probably have ended up with a performance that was no better on a more
expensive service. As you say, buyer beware.

Rod.


The BT availability service sometimes underestimates what the line is
capable of - mine says upto 2Mbps but I sync at 5320 Mbps and the BRAS
is now back up to 4500. Anything stable above 3500 will stream HD video.

There should perhaps be a heuristic anecdotal guide as to what sync
speed you need to get on the 38M service to stand a sporting chance of
getting a noticeably faster connection on the 76M one. Can anyone
provide data points for sync rates @ 38 and 76 on the same line?

This is all fine for geeks, but it perhaps should be publicised on one
of the consumer affairs programmes. It is sharp practice to sell a
headline "faster" speed service that is no better than the 38M one.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #8  
Old February 24th 15, 11:08 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 492
Default Up to 38Mb and up to 76 Mb

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
...
The agents who sell the services probably just don't understand. I was
offered the 76Mb/s service even though the BT availability check
website indicated that the line wasn't capable of giving me more than
about 30, so it would be more sensible for me to opt for the 38Mb/s
service. I actually get about 26 down, 5.5 up, with which I am quite
happy, but if I hadn't reasoned the figures out for myself I'd
probably have ended up with a performance that was no better on a more
expensive service. As you say, buyer beware.


Do ISPs tend to let you change from one speed package to another based on
the actual speed that your router achieves, which usually isn't known until
FTTC/VDSL has actually been turned on and the router has been installed in
the place in the house where you want it.

Or do you have to research the likely speed at your house in advance of
placing the order, and then stay with that speed forever?

I imagine some ISPs are more flexible than others about letting you change
to a package that best suits the speed that you actually achieve.

26/5.5 would be luxury when you're used to about 6/0.5 of a standard ADSL
line like me. The increased upload speed is the real benefit of VDSL for me:
I probably wouldn't notice the increased download speeds in most situations
(apart from when downloading a large video or EXE) but it's painful to have
to wait for ages for a couple of MB of email or file to be sent.

  #9  
Old February 24th 15, 11:41 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Brian Mc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 140
Default Up to 38Mb and up to 76 Mb

NY wrote:
: Do ISPs tend to let you change from one speed package to another based on
: the actual speed that your router achieves, which usually isn't known until
: FTTC/VDSL has actually been turned on and the router has been installed in
: the place in the house where you want it.

For VDSL the Openreach speed predictor isn't bad - as it "knows" the cable
length to the FTTC cabinet quite accurately.

  #10  
Old February 24th 15, 01:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 182
Default Up to 38Mb and up to 76 Mb

On 24/02/2015 11:41, Brian Mc wrote:
NY wrote:
: Do ISPs tend to let you change from one speed package to another based on
: the actual speed that your router achieves, which usually isn't known until
: FTTC/VDSL has actually been turned on and the router has been installed in
: the place in the house where you want it.

For VDSL the Openreach speed predictor isn't bad - as it "knows" the cable
length to the FTTC cabinet quite accurately.

I find that reply very interesting as I've just finished talking to the
OR engineer on that subject.

He told me the OR speed predictor works on postcode to the cabinet and
thus is a straight line and not actual cable length. This results in
the higher Estimate of 30Mb than my actual 27Mb. He did have an App to
measure from my home to the cabinet showing the cable route with its
connections on the way. It goes a very varied way too, starting by going
in completely wrong direction and has a length just short of 1Km.

I was also told this distance was the reason why I would not gain any
more speed by upgrading to up to 76MB service, surprising to me he said
in his experience it could well be less speed, I got lost on that.

His visit was to reset my line and now I'm getting 37Mb with 6dB noise
Margin, so a few days will tell what the OR DLM thinks of my use and
interference on the line and adjustment it makes.

Regards
David
 




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