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Offconn agrees to Bhtee's 5000 per install + 5000 per year 100mbit line fees



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 20th 15, 07:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.misc,uk.politics.misc
stephen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 381
Default Offconn agrees to Bhtee's 5000 per install + 5000 per year 100mbit line fees

On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 23:56:12 +0100, 7
[email protected] .com wrote:

Offconn agrees to Bhtee's 5000 per install + 5000 per year 100mbit line fees
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33107592

Offconn the regulators of Bhtee (manned mostly by Bhtee insiders)
agreed between themselves and Bhtee to maintain the sky high
5000 per install + 5000 per year 100mbit for another couple of years
while the rest of the world enjoy 100bit symetric ethernet for
anywhere between 30 to 50 per month and about the same for the install fee.


You can argue about whether BT makes too much money
- but you need to remember they are a business not a charity they
have to provide a return on their shares, otherwise someone else will
end up running it who will.
- they also have to pay for lots of overheads such as staff, dig up
the roads to bury all that fibre......
- there is plenty of fibre in the ground but not in all the right
places to support all those consumer locations, so new fibre is needed
for pretty much every home connection.

If you want 100m dedicated links, then depends which services you look
at and exactly what you want.
FTTP is a shared service so it can be cheap as many of the expensive
aspects are shared
- but it uses GPON (a passive glass mux) to share a connection back
to a router or switch.
- GPON has different "build" for traffic from the hub device to the
set of end points and back in the other direction
- because it uses sharing you either have an expensive GPON / system
design, or much less "upstream" bandwidth than downstream.

FWIW current FTTC can do 40m down and 10m up - so a reasonable
fraction of your 100m.

more than that on deployed kit needs the fibre end to end which is the
expensive bit.
BT gave some recent talks about deploying several 100m using g.fast
which would still use copper - which would need new electonics, but
limit how much new fibre is needed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWcb5TkftEU
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php...50-metres.html

the effect is that the fairly expensive "stuff" back in the BT
exchange in this case can be shared across a set of customer
connections, and that translates into relatively low cost per
connection.

If you want a dedicated link - which is needed for symmetric bandwidth
then BT Openreach is quite happy to rent you an "Ethernet Access
Direct".
- this doesnt give you an Internet service as it is only part of the
puzzle.
- ISPs would normally install some kit in the BT exchange to minimise
the cost of the BT EAD by using the "Local Access" version.

BT OR publish a pricing tool so given the postocdes for the exchange
and an end point you can see the numbers:
http://www.openreach.co.uk/pls/or_qq...ames.drawframe

when i put my own home and the local exchange in the pricing tool for
100m, it spits out
Main Link Distance Radial Distance Resilience Term
0m 1650 m None 1 Year
Annual Rental Connection
1,605.00 1,900.00
So - not 5k install and annual rent.......

if you rent an "end to end" EAD, esp where it plugs into 2 different
BT exchanges, then BT OR have to build more and will charge more for
it.

Back to a BT Exchange EAD LA "cheap" BT tail - the ISP then has to
have a presence at the BT site to make a working service
- which costs 1000s for install and annual rent for rack space, power
and aircon before you buy any hardware and a backhaul aggregate link.
- so the economics only make sense if they have multiple local
customers to share those parts of the build.

They then have to operate a service, pay for staff and so on.

FWIW the Ofcom split up and equivalence rules mean BT Wholesale or
Retail pays Openreach exactly the same as other ISPs - so BT have the
same rough cost base and with the same assumptions about scale, that
translates to comparable pricing.

snip the rest of the original stuff

Stephen Hope
Replace xyz with ntl to reply
  #2  
Old June 21st 15, 11:42 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Offconn agrees to Bhtee's �5000 per install + �5000 per year 100mbit line fees

On Saturday, 20 June 2015 19:52:57 UTC+1, Stephen wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 23:56:12 +0100, 7
[email protected] .com wrote:

Offconn agrees to Bhtee's 5000 per install + 5000 per year 100mbit line fees
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33107592

Offconn the regulators of Bhtee (manned mostly by Bhtee insiders)
agreed between themselves and Bhtee to maintain the sky high
5000 per install + 5000 per year 100mbit for another couple of years
while the rest of the world enjoy 100bit symetric ethernet for
anywhere between 30 to 50 per month and about the same for the install fee.


You can argue about whether BT makes too much money
- but you need to remember they are a business not a charity they
have to provide a return on their shares, otherwise someone else will
end up running it who will.
- they also have to pay for lots of overheads such as staff, dig up
the roads to bury all that fibre......
- there is plenty of fibre in the ground but not in all the right
places to support all those consumer locations, so new fibre is needed
for pretty much every home connection.

If you want 100m dedicated links, then depends which services you look
at and exactly what you want.
FTTP is a shared service so it can be cheap as many of the expensive
aspects are shared
- but it uses GPON (a passive glass mux) to share a connection back
to a router or switch.
- GPON has different "build" for traffic from the hub device to the
set of end points and back in the other direction
- because it uses sharing you either have an expensive GPON / system
design, or much less "upstream" bandwidth than downstream.

FWIW current FTTC can do 40m down and 10m up - so a reasonable
fraction of your 100m.


It can do 78M down and 19M up, IIRC Virgin offer 100M and 152M at sensible prices IF cable passes you.


more than that on deployed kit needs the fibre end to end which is the
expensive bit.
BT gave some recent talks about deploying several 100m using g.fast
which would still use copper - which would need new electonics, but
limit how much new fibre is needed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWcb5TkftEU
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php...50-metres.html

the effect is that the fairly expensive "stuff" back in the BT
exchange in this case can be shared across a set of customer
connections, and that translates into relatively low cost per
connection.

If you want a dedicated link - which is needed for symmetric bandwidth
then BT Openreach is quite happy to rent you an "Ethernet Access
Direct".
- this doesnt give you an Internet service as it is only part of the
puzzle.
- ISPs would normally install some kit in the BT exchange to minimise
the cost of the BT EAD by using the "Local Access" version.

BT OR publish a pricing tool so given the postocdes for the exchange
and an end point you can see the numbers:
http://www.openreach.co.uk/pls/or_qq...ames.drawframe

when i put my own home and the local exchange in the pricing tool for
100m, it spits out
Main Link Distance Radial Distance Resilience Term
0m 1650 m None 1 Year
Annual Rental Connection
1,605.00 1,900.00
So - not 5k install and annual rent.......

if you rent an "end to end" EAD, esp where it plugs into 2 different
BT exchanges, then BT OR have to build more and will charge more for
it.

Back to a BT Exchange EAD LA "cheap" BT tail - the ISP then has to
have a presence at the BT site to make a working service
- which costs 1000s for install and annual rent for rack space, power
and aircon before you buy any hardware and a backhaul aggregate link.
- so the economics only make sense if they have multiple local
customers to share those parts of the build.

They then have to operate a service, pay for staff and so on.

FWIW the Ofcom split up and equivalence rules mean BT Wholesale or
Retail pays Openreach exactly the same as other ISPs - so BT have the
same rough cost base and with the same assumptions about scale, that
translates to comparable pricing.

snip the rest of the original stuff


The weird thing is that about 2 years ago BT briefly offered 100Mbps FTTP. The install was 200 - 300 and the rental no more than 100 per month. There was even a promise that the speed would be upped to 300Mbps within a couple of years [for more rent].

BT's web site also explained installation, with BT running fibre to your house or 'single building' office, and installing a cigarette sized convertor box on the outside of the premises. IIRC the customer had to supply mains power.

I was seriously considering ordering it, when the promotion suddenly disappeared and they went back to the outrageous rip off above.

Stephen Hope
Replace xyz with ntl to reply


  #3  
Old June 21st 15, 12:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.misc,uk.politics.misc
7
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 139
Default Offconn agrees to Bhtee's 5000 per install + 5000 per year 100mbit line fees

Stephen wrote:


Offconn agrees to Bhtee's 5000 per install + 5000 per year 100mbit line
fees
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33107592

Offconn the regulators of Bhtee (manned mostly by Bhtee insiders)
agreed between themselves and Bhtee to maintain the sky high
5000 per install + 5000 per year 100mbit for another couple of years
while the rest of the world enjoy 100bit symetric ethernet for
anywhere between 30 to 50 per month and about the same for the install
fee.


You can argue about whether BT makes too much money


Not going there - this is about rip off merchants v robust and fair global
comparable business practices.


- but you need to remember they are a business not a charity they
have to provide a return on their shares, otherwise someone else will
end up running it who will.


The sooner the better. They are a charity on steroids funded through
rip off monopoly pricing that conform to international norms.


- they also have to pay for lots of overheads such as staff, dig up
the roads to bury all that fibre......


Others have no trouble. In particular, they have no trouble
after having intalled fiber, light them all up with $15 16gbit fiber
optic transcievers unlike Bhtee who choose
not to light up their installed fibers and sell it at international
prices, and instead choose to charge 5000 per 100mbit line per yea and
5000 for each install.


- there is plenty of fibre in the ground but not in all the right
places to support all those consumer locations, so new fibre is needed
for pretty much every home connection.


That is bad management of resources no doubt passed on by
benefits of being educated by MBA management trolls.

If there is fiber (which there is), then light them up and give
everyone for 50 their 100mbit lines.
When the demand goes ballistic, you go roll up your sleeve
and start upgrading infrastructure for everyone else.


If you want 100m dedicated links, then depends which services you look
at and exactly what you want.
FTTP is a shared service so it can be cheap as many of the expensive
aspects are shared
- but it uses GPON (a passive glass mux) to share a connection back
to a router or switch.
- GPON has different "build" for traffic from the hub device to the
set of end points and back in the other direction
- because it uses sharing you either have an expensive GPON / system
design, or much less "upstream" bandwidth than downstream.

FWIW current FTTC can do 40m down and 10m up - so a reasonable
fraction of your 100m.


Its all down to MBA management trolls in charge and their failure to
understand technology. They want to meter every byte so
they install extremely expensive metering.
Instead it costs $10 to install symetric DSL without metering.
Then FPGA banks to route traffic.
Cheaper than any existing equipment with fraction of the energy
and space consumed and more througput than anything they ever built to date.


more than that on deployed kit needs the fibre end to end which is the
expensive bit.


Sez who?
I'm fiber optic trained. It takes me a few minutes to splice a fiber
and connect. The vast majority of the time and cost is spend just into a
place. Which when averaged is about 50 per install.



BT gave some recent talks about deploying several 100m using g.fast
which would still use copper - which would need new electonics, but
limit how much new fibre is needed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWcb5TkftEU
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php...future-g-fast-

broadband-delivers-300mbps-speeds-at-350-metres.html

That just shows BHTees management trolls no idea how to run
a technology business.

What they doing with copper I can't begin to imagine.
With $15 16gbit transcievers, unmetered routers, and FPGA arrays,
they can install gigabit ethernet to each home for under $100 per home.
If they don't know how that works, they know nothing.


the effect is that the fairly expensive "stuff" back in the BT
exchange in this case can be shared across a set of customer
connections, and that translates into relatively low cost per
connection.

If you want a dedicated link - which is needed for symmetric bandwidth
then BT Openreach is quite happy to rent you an "Ethernet Access
Direct".
- this doesnt give you an Internet service as it is only part of the
puzzle.
- ISPs would normally install some kit in the BT exchange to minimise
the cost of the BT EAD by using the "Local Access" version.

BT OR publish a pricing tool so given the postocdes for the exchange
and an end point you can see the numbers:
http://www.openreach.co.uk/pls/or_qq...ames.drawframe

when i put my own home and the local exchange in the pricing tool for
100m, it spits out
Main Link Distance Radial Distance Resilience Term
0m 1650 m None

1 Year
Annual Rental Connection
1,605.00 1,900.00
So - not 5k install and annual rent.......



This is a BHTee centric management troll driven idea how
to pay through the nose.

Why not check up other countries like Sweden and how they do it?
$50 for install, $50 for 100 bit.


if you rent an "end to end" EAD, esp where it plugs into 2 different
BT exchanges, then BT OR have to build more and will charge more for
it.


No they have no need to do any of it.

They just need to use FPGA banks to route all their bit and bytes,
ban metering as something that doesn't work, and install $15
16gbit transcievers for all their connections.

So lets say you hire 30 FPGA and board developers, they can sit all
day and program up FPGAs to route signals, and in a couple of months
you got may be a million people on fiber.


Back to a BT Exchange EAD LA "cheap" BT tail - the ISP then has to
have a presence at the BT site to make a working service
- which costs 1000s for install and annual rent for rack space, power
and aircon before you buy any hardware and a backhaul aggregate link.
- so the economics only make sense if they have multiple local
customers to share those parts of the build.

They then have to operate a service, pay for staff and so on.

FWIW the Ofcom split up and equivalence rules mean BT Wholesale or
Retail pays Openreach exactly the same as other ISPs - so BT have the
same rough cost base and with the same assumptions about scale, that
translates to comparable pricing.

snip the rest of the original stuff

Stephen Hope
Replace xyz with ntl to reply



I admire your knowlege, but there are ways to think outside
of the box and more important, know how others already do it
and merely copy if nothing else.

 




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