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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Swapping DSL routers



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 15th 17, 03:07 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Theo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Swapping DSL routers

Graham J wrote:
Theo wrote:
a) knowing what the heck the login credentials are, since typically the ISP
doesn't tell you
b) knowing how to configure them in the router


I think you're confusing several different login credentials.

Your item (a) - if this means the login credentials for the broadband
service every reputable ISP will tell you them. Some (Plusnet) will let
you choose a password when you place the order. Others (Zen) will tell
you what they have configured when they send an email confirming the order.


What I'm concerned about is people switching ISP without any help.
They don't have a clue they need to ask this stuff, and someone who isn't
them can't phone up the ISP and ask for the credentials.

Are the modem credentials /always/ the same as used by the ISP's online
account system (that the user will know), or any they different? Given they
send out routers to new customers, I'd assumed what was programmed into the
router was some kind of random password like the default wifi keys usually
are.

Your item (b) requires two things: and Ethernet cabled connection
between a computer and the router; and knowledge of the username and
password for the router. The latter is available by Googling if you
know the make and model of the router; it should also be provided by
whoever supplied the router. Whatever, the user should always change it
to something known only to himself (herself) and make a note of it, so
knowledge of the login details and how to change them is mandatory for a
secure system.


The problem is not knowing the router admin password, the problem is this is
beyond a lot of people.

Phone call:
Caller: So grandpa, what I'd like you to do is go to http://192.168.1.1/
Grandpa: Wut?
C: OK, turn on your computer and wait for the Windows
....
C: Now click on the big blue E
[continues at length]

Given this, there is no reason to change the router just because you
change ISP. Clearly if you are changing from ADSL to VDSL the old
router may not support VDSL so you will have to change the router.


Show me a router the average user can configure and definitely not get
themselves into a pickle? Because nobody is able to help them out remotely
if they do.

None of this should be beyond the capabilities of anybody who can follow
simple written instructions. There's no need for the user to hve any
specialist knowledge. Sadly this probably means that only 20% of the
population will ever be able to configure a router for themselves.


I think you overestimate the quality of instructions nowadays. Most gadgets
only come with a tiny slip of paper which is mostly full of disclaimers.
Even the iPhone no longer has printable instructions (it's web or iBooks
only).

So there's always a market for a local support service that can help the
80% of the population that can't do it for themselves. This also helps
resolve other problems such as lack of microfilters, multiple telephone
connections implemented incorrectly, unreasonable expectations for the
area that the WiFi signal will cover, and maintaining proper documentation.


Such services aren't always available, or affordable. And people shouldn't
need help for simple things like this.

Theo
  #12  
Old July 15th 17, 03:29 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 151
Default Swapping DSL routers

Theo wrote:

What I'm concerned about is people switching ISP without any help.
They don't have a clue they need to ask this stuff, and someone who isn't
them can't phone up the ISP and ask for the credentials.


Doesn't even need to be switching ... Dad phoned up a couple of weeks
ago, his broadband had been a bit unreliable, so he needed to speak to
the ISP.

Instead of phoning them he went to use their "online chat" except the
didn't remember his password for the ISP, so chose the "reset password"
facility, when the router next rebooted it then had the wrong password
for the ISP, so he lost his connection altogether.

He had a bit of difficulty as I talked him through reading the serial
number from the sticker on the router which doubles as the admin
password, so he couldn't fix the ADSL logon probem ... a 100 mile round
trip later he was up and running again.

  #13  
Old July 15th 17, 06:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 470
Default Swapping DSL routers

On 15 Jul 2017 15:07:08 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote:

The problem is not knowing the router admin password, the problem is this is
beyond a lot of people.

Phone call:
Caller: So grandpa, what I'd like you to do is go to http://192.168.1.1/
Grandpa: Wut?
C: OK, turn on your computer and wait for the Windows
...
C: Now click on the big blue E
[continues at length]


This can happen, but in my family I *am* the grandpa, and I'm the one
who has to explain things like this to everybody else.

Ignorance is not necessarily a sign of age. In this case it's a sign
of not having made any effort to understand the everyday technology
that surrounds all of us and on which most of us are dependent. Much
of it isn't very difficult to find out about either. Nobody taught me
how to build computers and set up network connections, but a long time
ago my parents taught me to read...

Rod.
  #14  
Old July 15th 17, 07:32 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 585
Default Swapping DSL routers


"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
...
On 15 Jul 2017 15:07:08 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote:

The problem is not knowing the router admin password, the problem is
this is
beyond a lot of people.

Phone call:
Caller: So grandpa, what I'd like you to do is go to
http://192.168.1.1/
Grandpa: Wut?
C: OK, turn on your computer and wait for the Windows
...
C: Now click on the big blue E
[continues at length]


This can happen, but in my family I *am* the grandpa, and I'm the
one
who has to explain things like this to everybody else.

Ignorance is not necessarily a sign of age. In this case it's a sign
of not having made any effort to understand the everyday technology
that surrounds all of us and on which most of us are dependent. Much
of it isn't very difficult to find out about either. Nobody taught
me
how to build computers and set up network connections, but a long
time
ago my parents taught me to read...



+1 - with bells on.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #15  
Old July 15th 17, 09:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Theo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Swapping DSL routers

Roderick Stewart wrote:
This can happen, but in my family I *am* the grandpa, and I'm the one
who has to explain things like this to everybody else.

Ignorance is not necessarily a sign of age. In this case it's a sign
of not having made any effort to understand the everyday technology
that surrounds all of us and on which most of us are dependent. Much
of it isn't very difficult to find out about either. Nobody taught me
how to build computers and set up network connections, but a long time
ago my parents taught me to read...


Completely agreed. Also, 'grandpa' might be 40 so it isn't exactly an age
thing anyway. Also older people may be /more/ familiar with some aspects of
technology (eg the inner workings of cars) than younger people.

The point of my riffing on the stereotype is that some people
have an interest in technology and keeping themselves well informed, and
others don't. For those that don't, a lack of exposure can mean they get
left behind (might understand a landline but never got to grips with a
mobile, so a smartphone is now too much of a leap).

For those that haven't kept up, where do you start with a statement about
'just login to the router and change the ISP password'?
Mostly, that's the answer to the wrong question.

The right answer might be 'get a separate wireless access point and set up
all the devices on that. Then just switch routers when one is sent by a new
ISP'. But that's not an answer commonly offered in the places such people
will go for help.

Theo
  #16  
Old July 15th 17, 09:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 291
Default Swapping DSL routers

"Woody" wrote in message
news

Ignorance is not necessarily a sign of age. In this case it's a sign
of not having made any effort to understand the everyday technology
that surrounds all of us and on which most of us are dependent. Much
of it isn't very difficult to find out about either. Nobody taught me
how to build computers and set up network connections, but a long time
ago my parents taught me to read...



+1 - with bells on.


And brass knobs as well!


I repair PCs and diagnose/fix network problems for local customers, and
people often ask "how did you learn all this?" to which the honest answer is
"by trying things, reading books and newsgroup postings, asking other people
etc".

The other thing that comes in useful is having a reasonably logical,
scientific mind - faced with a problem, find out what (if anything) *does*
still work, to help diagnose where the fault lies. And also, be prepared for
the inexplicable bizarre symptoms that are fixed by a reboot - but if I get
one of those, I try my hardest to make it go wrong again, in case there is
some set of circumstances that provoked it last time.


A lot of people cannot distinguish between inherent slowness of a computer
(eg to boot or to open Word) and slowness due to a slow internet connection;
the latter only affects how long it takes to open a web page or to download
POP email, whereas the former affects how long it takes the browser window
to open or the email client window to open and display previous email, even
before accessing the web page or getting new mail.


Ignorance may be caused by not *needing* to know. I know how to drive a car
but there's a lot of non-trivial faults that I haven't bothered to learn to
fix because the mechanic at the garage will have the training and tools to
do a better job than me. But at least I have the vocabulary to describe the
symptoms and the circumstances when the fault does and doesn't occur,
whereas a lot of computer problems that people describe to me are difficult
to diagnose over the phone because people can't describe the symptoms very
well.

Still, it makes it interesting because I may find that the fault is
completely different to what I'd anticipated from the description over the
phone. It's like "my car won't start" could be various things, whereas "the
engine won't turn over" means flat battery, and "the engine turns but the
engine doesn't fire" is lack of fuel (either empty tank or a blockage) or,
for petrol, a lack of spark.

  #17  
Old July 15th 17, 09:53 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 585
Default Swapping DSL routers


"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Woody" wrote in message
news

Ignorance is not necessarily a sign of age. In this case it's a
sign
of not having made any effort to understand the everyday
technology
that surrounds all of us and on which most of us are dependent.
Much
of it isn't very difficult to find out about either. Nobody taught
me
how to build computers and set up network connections, but a long
time
ago my parents taught me to read...



+1 - with bells on.


And brass knobs as well!


I repair PCs and diagnose/fix network problems for local customers,
and people often ask "how did you learn all this?" to which the
honest answer is "by trying things, reading books and newsgroup
postings, asking other people etc".

The other thing that comes in useful is having a reasonably logical,
scientific mind - faced with a problem, find out what (if anything)
*does* still work, to help diagnose where the fault lies. And also,
be prepared for the inexplicable bizarre symptoms that are fixed by
a reboot - but if I get one of those, I try my hardest to make it go
wrong again, in case there is some set of circumstances that
provoked it last time.


A lot of people cannot distinguish between inherent slowness of a
computer (eg to boot or to open Word) and slowness due to a slow
internet connection; the latter only affects how long it takes to
open a web page or to download POP email, whereas the former affects
how long it takes the browser window to open or the email client
window to open and display previous email, even before accessing the
web page or getting new mail.


Ignorance may be caused by not *needing* to know. I know how to
drive a car but there's a lot of non-trivial faults that I haven't
bothered to learn to fix because the mechanic at the garage will
have the training and tools to do a better job than me. But at least
I have the vocabulary to describe the symptoms and the circumstances
when the fault does and doesn't occur, whereas a lot of computer
problems that people describe to me are difficult to diagnose over
the phone because people can't describe the symptoms very well.

Still, it makes it interesting because I may find that the fault is
completely different to what I'd anticipated from the description
over the phone. It's like "my car won't start" could be various
things, whereas "the engine won't turn over" means flat battery, and
"the engine turns but the engine doesn't fire" is lack of fuel
(either empty tank or a blockage) or, for petrol, a lack of spark.



+1 for the first part.

Cars today are really computers that think they are cars, hence if
anything goes wrong the 'tech' plugs in his computer and changes the
part that the machine says is at fault. They NEVER use any common
sense and apply thought before diving in the deep end. Of course when
it doesn't cure the fault they are stuck.

I got to the stage with company cars that I took a typed, printed
sheet with a detailed description of every problem and instructed (not
asked - note) that it be attached to the job card (at least they still
use those!) My car came back fully fixed every time.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #18  
Old July 16th 17, 03:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
DrTeeth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 302
Default Swapping DSL routers

On 14 Jul 2017 19:46:02 +0100 (BST), just as I was about to take a
herb, Theo disturbed my reverie
and wrote:

For FTTC, do you still get given an Openreach VDSL modem, or is it
integrated now?


BT no longer supply their own modems. I bought a new Modem/router
which I use as a modem in bridge mode.
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter." - Winston Churchill
  #19  
Old July 16th 17, 11:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 585
Default Swapping DSL routers


"DrTeeth" wrote in message
...
On 14 Jul 2017 19:46:02 +0100 (BST), just as I was about to take a
herb, Theo disturbed my reverie
and wrote:

For FTTC, do you still get given an Openreach VDSL modem, or is it
integrated now?


BT no longer supply their own modems. I bought a new Modem/router
which I use as a modem in bridge mode.
--


I thought BT now supply a HH5 which has ADSL and vDSK built in?


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #20  
Old July 17th 17, 07:26 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 151
Default Swapping DSL routers

Woody wrote:

I thought BT now supply a HH5 which has ADSL and vDSK built in?


If you're a BT Broadband customer ypu should get a Smart Hub with
'Infinity', if you use a different ISP they might offer to supply a
router, or it might be "wires only" and you're expected to buy your own.
 




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