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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

uk 31st in the world for broadband



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 8th 17, 12:33 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 457
Default uk 31st in the world for broadband


https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...pain-singapore

We're worse than most EU countries, but better than France and Italy.
  #2  
Old August 8th 17, 06:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
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Posts: 291
Default uk 31st in the world for broadband

"Chris" wrote in message
news

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...pain-singapore

We're worse than most EU countries, but better than France and Italy.


The best measure is the proportion of people who want broadband but who get
pathetic speeds or perpetual dropouts.

By all means measure the average speed across all people with broadband, but
also measure the number whose speed falls below some threshold (maybe about
2 Mbps) or whose broadband sync fails more than once every n days (for some
value of n). Now those really *would* be interesting figures.

I set an empirical threshold of 2 Mbps because that seems to be about the
speed beyond which you don't notice any improvement for simple web browsing,
even though you *would* notice a difference for more challenging things like
streaming or downloading large video files.

  #3  
Old August 8th 17, 06:54 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MB[_2_]
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Posts: 121
Default uk 31st in the world for broadband

On 08/08/2017 18:13, NY wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message
news

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...pain-singapore


We're worse than most EU countries, but better than France and Italy.


The best measure is the proportion of people who want broadband but who
get pathetic speeds or perpetual dropouts.

By all means measure the average speed across all people with broadband,
but also measure the number whose speed falls below some threshold
(maybe about 2 Mbps) or whose broadband sync fails more than once every
n days (for some value of n). Now those really *would* be interesting
figures.

I set an empirical threshold of 2 Mbps because that seems to be about
the speed beyond which you don't notice any improvement for simple web
browsing, even though you *would* notice a difference for more
challenging things like streaming or downloading large video files.





There seem a lot of doubts about the way this has been measured. Is
fast broadband available everywhere in Romania, Bulgaria etc at the same
cost as in the capital city?

I have mentioned before that when I got my BT connection in the mid-30
Mbps, I told a friend in the US and he said it was three times faster
than gets and he is just outside San Francisco.

  #4  
Old August 8th 17, 08:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andrew[_2_]
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Posts: 24
Default uk 31st in the world for broadband

On 08/08/2017 12:33, Chris wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...pain-singapore

We're worse than most EU countries, but better than France and Italy.


Its fine where most people actually live and need it (Farmers
excepted).
  #5  
Old August 9th 17, 11:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
7[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 275
Default uk 31st in the world for broadband

MB wrote:

On 08/08/2017 18:13, NY wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message
news

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...pain-singapore


We're worse than most EU countries, but better than France and Italy.


The best measure is the proportion of people who want broadband but who
get pathetic speeds or perpetual dropouts.

By all means measure the average speed across all people with broadband,
but also measure the number whose speed falls below some threshold
(maybe about 2 Mbps) or whose broadband sync fails more than once every
n days (for some value of n). Now those really *would* be interesting
figures.

I set an empirical threshold of 2 Mbps because that seems to be about
the speed beyond which you don't notice any improvement for simple web
browsing, even though you *would* notice a difference for more
challenging things like streaming or downloading large video files.





There seem a lot of doubts about the way this has been measured.


There will be no doubt if kids and the younger generation are
measuring it.

They can't use it for gaming. Its not gaming internet.
And can't use it for social media uploads of video and epic
adventure or use streaming services which more than
50% of the UK use full time.

Only 3% of UK can do with fibre cabled up in mainly
Rural areas by the likes of B4RN, Gigaclear and others
who managed to get foothold in cities like Cityfibre
and Hyperoptic with gigabit symmetric fibre for under 50

The price encumants like Bhtee and VM who charge
astronomically higher amount after all their charges are summed up
and derated for 1/20th the performance.



BT (British Telecum) VM Openroach Offconn sells uploads speeds no good for
internet gaming
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Internet gaming doesn't work with fake fibre copper services sold
by BT, VM, Openroach and the krone tool master baiting
wahahahankers who regulate them offconn.

Since most of the adults and young population is now gaming
culture, and not Teevee culture you would have thunked this problem was
top priority to the wahahahankers in offconn?

No they are still master baiting with revolving doors
that let in ex-bhtee management trolls to run the place
sold on fake out dated ideas such as copper, and delaying tactics to retain
market share when in fact their entire share valuation is some
20 time lower than what it should be because they are not
as competitive as pure fibre companies that have already
won 3% of UK market share.

The whole world is gone fibre optics with just a fraction cost
(some 1/20th) for provisioning compared to slow out dated copper.

And you need all that speed and upload bandwidth to play
computer games - or you may as well not participate because
you can't win anything with a slow internet connection.

The fibre users are always in with a chance to win
with their 1gbit per second upload speed.

And all these out date cumpanies like BT, VM, Openroach
and their out dated overseers can't supply what the public
wants even by 2020. They should all be sacked and
replaced with engineers and leaders from pure fibre optic
companies that have already delivered 3% of UK
so that they can make the rules to fibre up the entire UK.



BT (British Telecum) lies about rural broadband
-----------------------------------------------

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ural-broadband

It claims it wants about a 2000 per household to cable up rural
when we already know its less than 250 per household
because fibre doesn't require brick lined tunnels.

B4RN, CityFibre, Gigaclear, Hyperoptic etc have all done
it averaging out around 5K per km rural
instead of 100k per km BT / Openroach wants with the aid
of offconn liars.

Fibre does not require brick lined water sewage electric proofed
ducts which is why costs go from 100k per km to 5k per km.

Offconn should be dismissed and replaced with pure fibre
company executives from B4RN, Cityfibre, Gigaclear, Hyperoptic
etc for their plans to do up Rural Broadband, because
they already cabled up RURAL BROADBAND at a profit with
under 50 per 1 gigabit symmetric lines and under 300
installation charges.




Leased Line Market Predatory Pricing by BT DT VM Openroach Offconn ASA et al
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Europe needs to investigate.

The UK is mired in a multi-billion predatory pricing scandal
that involves BT (British Telecum) DT (Deutche Telecum)
VM Openroach Offconn ASA et al all conspired to inflate
leased line prices by x10 to x20 prices to British businesses
and have run off with loot amounting to billions of tax payer
money and UK business's money.

Offconn is supposed to be regulator but since it has a revolving
doors policy with BT, it is 100% infected and played
a major role in facilitating this scandal.

Same with ASA which through means unfsckingbelievable
have for more than a decade helped the incumbents
perpetrate massive Leased Line fraud and predatory pricing
by allowing copper cables to be called fibre to allow
fake companies to pretend customers are getting
fibre when they are getting copper at the expense
of pure fibre companies that sell x20 better service
for the same price.

London Stock Exchange also needs to investigate. The share
prices of these cumpanies are somewhere between 10x and
20x inflated through the use of predatory pricing to
gather revenue on a completely unsustainable rate
to inflate the value of their respective companies.
Something like BT is now worth about 1 billion while VM
is worth about 200 million conning investors
out of some serious amounts of money.

The root of the problem are the fibre companies that
between them have cabled up 3% of UK with under 50
1 gigabit symmetric fibre which is 20x faster,
particularly in the MOST (as sold by Offconn)
expensive areas to cable up - RURAL AREAS.

Not only have they companies cabled up all of 3% of UK
including RURAL AREAS, but they have done so at a profit and
at a cheaper price than incumbents like BT VM Openroach
that Offconn values as significant players.
BT and VM still charge 50 for the same service
by splitting it into line rental and internet
as if they are two separate things, while fibre
companies don't do any such thing.

By forcing an investigation into predatory pricing,
and levy of fines for past offences to give back
to customers what they have been robbed of,
we are probably looking at some x30 reduction
in stock value for BT VM and other companies that
are copper if pure fibre companies are given
full and proper access by Offconn, and full and proper
access to ALL government funding at the expense
of copper if only BT infected Offconn could be removed
and replaced with fibre advisers to government
who can relay the true costs of fibre and the full
benefits of fibre for UK industry to Government instead
of the distorted hallucinations sold by BT/VM/Offconn
revolving door fraud pitch.



BT and Openroach Lies about leased line?
----------------------------------------

BT (British Telecum) with biggest thieving
of public purse Deutch Telecum owner of BT following
the same corrupt practices as they do in
Germany with the least best telecum network
in EU, have for years been milking UK plc with
fake leased line invoicing.

Whenever they sell you a lease line, they claim
to be blowing a fibre all the way from
the exchange to you.

Is this anywhere near true?

Highly unlikely - almost all the infrastructure
network is fibre. So they just add a splitter
or splice a cable from nearest fibre to your
premises.

They most certainly have not blown a fibre
from exchange to your premises, so they are not
entitled to invoice you for the short distance
that they are cabling you up with.

It needs to be crystal clear in the invoice what
exactly a site survey has found and what exactly
you are being invoiced for otherwise
it is fake and fraud, and the management that
promotes this as well as all the Offconn trolls
that allow this need to all face a judge and
explain what it is they do that is different
from defrauding the public with bold green lies.

The second part of the fraud is that in a pure
fibre network, there is nothing to distinguish
a broadband connection from a leased line.
It is all merely router settings.

The bulk of the entire UK infrastructure is fibre
and so there is no way to claim that you are being
supplied a dedicated leased line. It is mis-selling
on a massive fraudulent scale.

You are not being sold a dedicated line. What you
are being sold is a dedicated bandwidth on a shared
fibre optic line.

This needs to be clear in the invoicing.

Even if you stuck copper equipment at the end of it,
(which does not make sense - it is intentionally
designed to pull wool over everyone's eyes), you are
still duty bound to explain that what you are being
sold is not copper, but a fibre modem with
a copper service at the other end of it.

So you should be able to opt out of not receiving
the copper and just stick with the fibre connection
directly - which is infinitely cheaper.

Again the invoicing needs to make clear exactly
what you are paying for, for accounting purposes,
and as a customer, you
should have the right to refuse the copper equipment
and only purchase the fibre modem.

In which case, looking through the BT accounts,
anyone will be be able to determine a fee of
6000 for installation and 6000 per annum
for 100mbits symmetric line is complete
rip off - and needs to be paid back to customers.

1. No dedicated line has been run for you
2. No dedicated equipment exists for your line
3. They are all just router settings on a fibre modem network
4. What you paid for was copper at the end of fibre network.

Your total install costs should not exceed 250.
Your total fibre 'dedicated' 'leased' 'line' is
a fcking lie and worth less than 20 a month.

If it a 1 gigabit line, the provisioning costs are
still 250 per line, and less than 50 a month rental.



BT (British Telecum) No Fibre Availability - To The Premises 2020
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Some 2 million people in Paris has FTTP.

Sacra Blearghh!!!

Only about 800,000 home in entire UK has FTTP
and the all been supplied by the likes of Hyperoptic, Gigaclear,
B4RN pure fibre companies. They can't keep up with demand.
In London alone some 8 million people in a concentrated
spot for FTTP and offconn will deny them all this?!
The fscking retards should be outed.

These fibre connections are symmetric 1 gigabit
(equal upload and download speed) internet good
for uploading big videos and photo albums to friends
and winder internet as well as many people use it at the same
time watching streaming TV and esports.

The majority of youf just use streaming and esports only.

They have no care of old formats like ad filled teevee
that spends 20 minutes on adverts and 40 minutes programming per hour
or stupid ball dribbling spurts like football.
Nowadays I press mute on all ads across every media.
It ain't gonna work ever no matter what marketing trolls
are comforting themselves with because they have exceeded all
bounds of tolerance.
Its all an annoying grand dad tech
dying and dead market with zero interest.

In esports you can participate in sport which means high upload
speed, or no participation / less effective participation.
In streaming TV you got tens of
thousands of channels in all languages. While grand dad tech teevee
just has looped video with 1 month recycle loops. Wow. You must
be brain dead to watch these loops.

Despite all these changes none of the incumbents are ready
to roll out 1 gbit FTTP by 2020 for under 50 a month
because none of them can use even 1% of the infrastructure
they commission with their crap ideas about content.



Did BT (British Telecum) to VM abuse Connected Voucher Scheme?
--------------------------------------------------------------

Up to 3000 per connection was given away by government
to the big telecum companies to install their expensive
internet data line claiming 100,000 per km fake copper price
when it was less than 5k per km actual price with fibre.

Firstly, is British Telecum full of British Engineers
and British Salesmen? This isn't cricket. Definitely not
their cricket pitch. Inflate something by 5% not
a bad way to earn a quick buck, but inflate it x20
is corruption, graft, greed and not British.
It has to rely on externally supplied push from trolls
who don't stand to be prosecuted.

At an average cost of 250 per connection with fibre
(really it should be less - if including splitters
use to connect up blocks of houses), the benefit
should have gone to 400,000 businesses.
Instead it went to 40,000 businesses - a clear
rip off with an average price of 2500 per install.

This money needs to be returned and people
prosecuted for theft from public purse.

Alternatively, they can atone for their sins
by installing next 800,000 premises at
a discounted connection fee of 100 per
premises with 1 gbit symmetric internet,
waiting several years to get the full
cost refund (if there is need for such a thing)
by charging under 50 per month
for the service as punishment.


Fscking Openroach plans more copper krone tool master bation nation
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Waat the fsck is going on inside Bhtee Openroach now???

It has long been decided by telecum industry that
everything will now be fibre with no electric cables in
the ground and no repeaters.

Instead of 100,000 per km, the cost is now 5k per km.

Instead of taking months and years to lay down ducts,
a small team can lay down a km every two to 3 days.

And instead of laying down a few cables, you can
lay down 192 core at $1 per meter, to thousands
between villages and towns without repeaters.

Small 5G modems are coming in and they are going
to be inserted into every other lamp post
and connected directly by fibre to the main
building where all the fibres arrive.

No more telecum masts, no more telecum poles,
no more loss of coverage in villages to underground.

All the routers are custom made with FPGA
on 100Gbit back bone.

But Bhtee Offconn Openroach plan is to continue
installing more copper and muck it all up
and continue to charge 6k per 1Gbit line while
3% of the UK is already on 1gbit fibre for
under 50 a month.

At this rate, no one from Bhtee, Offconn, VM, Openroach
will be offering 1gbit symmetric (equal
upload and download speed) internet service as standard
by 2020.

So waat the fsck did they do with all that public
money given to them? Did they all collectively
lie to government and to the tax payers?




Gigabit fibreoptic routers easy to make with FPGA boards
--------------------------------------------------------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Yw4sa8Re8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddJKA0SBQxs


You can make your own routers for fibre optics with
open source designs and software or pay 30,000 per router.

If you make own routers, then you just hire an FPGA
engineer and 6 months later you got your own designs
and own networks to scale rapidly.

Scaling the fibre optic business is the most important
thing because it costs less than 250 per household to install
fibre optics so if you are charging around 50 per
month for gigabit symmetric fibre link, then its paid for
within 6 months and you can move on to pure profit in
no time.

Even a micro trench 100mm wide can push thousands of fibres
through a route and so its no longer necessary
to worry about how to connect up villages and towns because
the repeaters can be between 20km to 50km away. And if you
bring it into a building, the optical splitters can
split a beam into 64 separate beams for $80.

192 core cables about $1 per meter:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...83937.html?s=p

So easily cover a large estate in no time.

It makes you wonder how Bhtee VM and Offconn all lied
to government to get far more funding than they
need for the few services they installed
to service a 180 Billion pound market
comprised of traders and companies in the UK that
rely on the Internet to be working every day
to earn a day's work and pay wages.

The whole bhtee, offconn, openroach, VM, etc infrastructure
needs to be dismantled and sold off and replaced with pure fibre
companies. They already cable up 3% of UK, and only they
need the real funding to get the real work done.


Did Bhtee and Offconn lie to government about fibre prices?
-----------------------------------------------------------

The beelllions earmarked for broadband, particularly rural
broadband doesn't make sense.

Did Bhtee and Offconn and the big telco's collude
and lie to UK Government?

It costs average less than 250 per household to wire
it with symmetric 1 gigabit fibre and if you make your
own FPGA routers as big telecom companies must, then
the entire infrastructure costs for providing
the data transport are pennies.

So for 26 million households, the entire bill
for cabling it up is 6.5 billion pounds.
At 50 per household, the entire thing is paid
for in 6 months.

But the government has earmarked billions for telecom
and have gotten nothing out of it so far!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fibre ducts are typically 100mm wide a laid may
be 200mm below the surface in minimal dig and install
operation and a small team can cover several kilometers
in a week because fibre does not carry electricity
and repeaters can be 20km to 50km away.
Easily less than 5000 per km and averaging out
to around 100 to 250 per household.

This is nothing like laying a copper
cable, where a duct needs to be erected to protect
the electric cable, and repeaters are needed
every few hundred meters costing 100,000 per km.

So did Bhtee and Offconn and the big telco's collude
and lie to UK Government about laying the fibre
network by using copper costs??@????????????????

Obviously the fscking retards at offconn to Bhtee
and encumbants like VM have all colluded and lied
systematically to government
and to rural communities about the true costs of cabling up
everyone with gigabit symmetric fibre.

Particularly in rural communities where they are sticking
up poles illegally to hold them up from getting fibre
which doesn't need poles, and doesn't need repeaters
and kilometers of it can be laid in a week by small teams
digging 100mm wide trenches 200mm deep.


Paris gets FTTH to all its 2 million inhabitants - Nothing for London
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Sacra bleau!

Paris now has over 2 million FTTH 1 gigabit symmetric DSL (equal upload
and download speed) but London has NOTHING.

A big thank you goes out to *FSCKTARDS* at offconn for being
the vehicle for this.

We need names in front of TV instead fcktards going into hiding and
get out there explaining why Londoners (all 7 million of them, more than
10%
of
UK population concentrated into one place) cannot have their
FTTH 1 gigabit symmetric DSL connection with equal upload and
download speeds starting at 30 per month to 50 per month
while 3% of the country already has it from the likes of
B4RN, Hyperoptic, Gigaclear, FibreCity etc., and other countries
and big cities like Paris that are competitors have fully cabled up FTTH.
In Sweden you got 30 providers per city while there are zero
providers in London.

So why can't these fsktards at offconn resign and let some
other authority be set up to that are pro-fibre and let Londoners
have fibre to the home?

It pushes up the value of London by at leas 2 billion pounds.
And each and every city can add the same value now that
we are brex****ting and have to have this technology to be
competitive.

All it requires is some trolls to be spanked and sacked in
Offconn, and replaced with pro-fibre interest commercial
managers and bob is your uncle - value of UK goes up by
at least 50 billion when 25 cities and towns get cabled up
with fibre.

Bhtee VM accidentally leak their FTTP equipment prices
------------------------------------------------------

Not.

So I'm setting up BhteeVM_Leeks_Web****e.com web with retail price
list for these items (wholesale cheaper):

64 way splitter $85 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SC-1...476975506.html

fibre - --$375/km https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fibe...793795646.html

cleaver -$62- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/9-In...647289225.html

sleeves - 5 cents - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000...732857639.html

gigabit transceiver: 20km/1000BASE-LX - $17
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SFP-...710717277.html

The best way to build routers is to hire FPGA engineers and build the
routers
yourself from FPGA
and scale up rapidly
by building copies of own boards.

Otherwise have to purchase say a Cisco router upward 30,000.
Instead pay FPGA engineer 60,000 for 6 months to create as many FPGA boards
as you need for routers.

Examples of what can be done:
https://www.xes-inc.com/products/fpgas/xpedite2402/
https://www.broadcom.com/optical_fpga

  #6  
Old August 12th 17, 12:50 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Brian Gregory
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default uk 31st in the world for broadband

On 08/08/2017 18:54, MB wrote:
I have mentioned before that when I got my BT connection in the mid-30
Mbps, I told a friend in the US and he said it was three times faster
than gets and he is just outside San Francisco.


But now he probably has gigabit fibre from
https://www.sonic.com/home-products

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.
  #7  
Old August 12th 17, 10:48 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 457
Default uk 31st in the world for broadband

Andrew wrote:
On 08/08/2017 12:33, Chris wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...pain-singapore

We're worse than most EU countries, but better than France and Italy.


Its fine where most people actually live and need it (Farmers
excepted).


That's true of most countries, right? If you're in rural Lincolnshire
you'll struggle, but in Leeds you're fine. That comment doesn't help those
who don't have it.

  #8  
Old August 12th 17, 12:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 228
Default uk 31st in the world for broadband

On Saturday, 12 August 2017 10:52:48 UTC+1, chris wrote:
Andrew wrote:
On 08/08/2017 12:33, Chris wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...pain-singapore

We're worse than most EU countries, but better than France and Italy.


Its fine where most people actually live and need it (Farmers
excepted).


That's true of most countries, right? If you're in rural Lincolnshire
you'll struggle, but in Leeds you're fine. That comment doesn't help those
who don't have it.


My sister lived in a tiny hamlet (four street lights) in Lincolnshire until a year or two back. Still got 8Mbps then, which was OK for email and surfing, but not enough for live video.
  #9  
Old August 12th 17, 01:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andrew[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default uk 31st in the world for broadband

On 12/08/2017 12:41, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Saturday, 12 August 2017 10:52:48 UTC+1, chris wrote:
Andrew wrote:
On 08/08/2017 12:33, Chris wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...pain-singapore

We're worse than most EU countries, but better than France and Italy.


Its fine where most people actually live and need it (Farmers
excepted).


That's true of most countries, right? If you're in rural Lincolnshire
you'll struggle, but in Leeds you're fine. That comment doesn't help those
who don't have it.


My sister lived in a tiny hamlet (four street lights) in Lincolnshire until a year or two back. Still got 8Mbps then, which was OK for email and surfing, but not enough for live video.


I had 2 meg, then 4 and finally 8 for quite a few years until BT
scrapped tha ADSL max kit and moved everyone onto ADSL2+.

I Managed just fine. Even with 2 meg I was able to support my
employers end-user phone systems all round the old empire by
connecting from home using a Nortel VPN.
  #10  
Old August 12th 17, 02:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 228
Default uk 31st in the world for broadband

On Saturday, 12 August 2017 13:17:22 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 12/08/2017 12:41, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Saturday, 12 August 2017 10:52:48 UTC+1, chris wrote:
Andrew wrote:
On 08/08/2017 12:33, Chris wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...pain-singapore

We're worse than most EU countries, but better than France and Italy.


Its fine where most people actually live and need it (Farmers
excepted).


That's true of most countries, right? If you're in rural Lincolnshire
you'll struggle, but in Leeds you're fine. That comment doesn't help those
who don't have it.


My sister lived in a tiny hamlet (four street lights) in Lincolnshire until a year or two back. Still got 8Mbps then, which was OK for email and surfing, but not enough for live video.


I had 2 meg, then 4 and finally 8 for quite a few years until BT
scrapped tha ADSL max kit and moved everyone onto ADSL2+.

I Managed just fine. Even with 2 meg I was able to support my
employers end-user phone systems all round the old empire by
connecting from home using a Nortel VPN.


Even ISDN was just bearable unless someone sent you large scanned documents.
 




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thinking of getting ADSL? 2MB ADSL offer finishes Sunday 31st Aug RCE Defiant uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 0 August 30th 03 07:14 PM
thinking of getting ADSL? 2MB ADSL offer finishes Sunday 31st Aug MagicUK uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 0 August 30th 03 07:04 PM


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