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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Persuading BT OPenreach to investigate broadband problem

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Old August 28th 17, 05:08 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
[email protected]
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Posts: 4
Default Persuading BT OPenreach to investigate broadband problem

On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 19:11:32 +0100, Graham J

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:13:20 +0100, Graham J

Also see:


... which says:

"If you are migrating your service to us, even though you know you have
a problem with your broadband line, we'll take on the fault. We'll
tackle the problem and get it fixed within one month. If we don't then
you can migrate away and owe us nothing for your migration to us and
your service charges for that month."


That may simply be because there is already a broadband service from
another supplier on the line. Maybe you should try the "migrate" option
rather than the "new service" option?

If that fails ring them and ask why.

Good advice, thanks. I will try that next time our BB falls over. I
shouldn't have long to wait
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Old August 29th 17, 03:18 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 99
Default Persuading BT Openreach to investigate broadband problem

On 27/08/2017 17:45, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 22:52:44 +0100, Graham J

The attending Openreach engineer will have a map showing the route of
the line and will be prepared to re-make every join on that line if
necessary. Alternatively he (never known a she) will find an unused
pair that may be of better quality (i.e. copper all the way rather than
sections of aluminium).

The most diligent one we ever had visit was a she.
I've had 2 OR engineer visits in the last 3 weeks. Both had the map
but they didn't agree on which line we were actually on! One insisted
we came along the 'Exchange only' line to the east of the B1363, the
other that we were connected to a cabinet on the West of B1363. This
is highly relevant with regard to Superfast BB provision. I'm
currently awaiting a response from OR management!

If it is rural then you are likely to be on an EO line.
Doesn't the BT line checker tell you?


If you are allocated to a cabinet it will show the number after the name
of the exchange otherwise it is a direct line. The guy who lives
opposite the FTTC cabinet in our village is an EO line victim. His line
runs down the wrong side of the road so BT quoted him 3k to upgrade!

I have known reliable ADSL on a line of 8km length, at about 512k sync
speed. A friend has a 12km line and only after many engineer visits
have they told him that "ADSL is not available at his address" so not
even A&A can ask for it.

For the record. ADSL here on about 6km line length usually syncs at
around 3 to 3.5meg.

Is that before or after applying the bell wire hack (or using the
functionally equivalent approved combined socket and filter)?

I went from about 3Mbps to 5Mbps after applying the bellwire fix.

Martin Brown
Old August 29th 17, 03:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 99
Default Persuading BT Openreach to investigate broadband problem

On 24/08/2017 21:04, NY wrote:
"Woody" wrote in message

Beware. If the drop cable does not go to the BT line box they could have
grounds for saying you have done this extra bit of wiring and as a
consequence charge you for a callout.

What is the approved BT method of getting drop cable to the master socket
when the route that it must take within the house involves tight curves
are too severe for drop cable to manage? I've seen these little junction
boxes between drop and white cable quite often in phone installations and
I've not thought anything of it other than that it provides a transition
between thick, stiff cable and thinner, flexible cable.

The solution BT took in my house was install the master socket in the
loft close to where the drop cable enters the property

How does one convince BT OR that what they see it what they, BT OR,
installed a few years earlier?

How diligent are BT OR at attending to investigate poor broadband on long
lines? Are they known for sometimes deciding not to attend a callout that
has been made at the ISP's request if they know that the line is long and
the cables in the area are poor quality or involve lots of joints on pole
boxes or underground boxes. The distance from the house to the exchange is
about 6 km as the crow flies but I don't know what route the
overhead/underground cables may follow.

They generally do a TDR test before sending out an engineer which on a
good day will find any partial breaks or dry joints to within about 3m
either way. On a bad day it will temporarily heal the fault.

Looking at their maps gives them a sporting chance of guessing which
junction box or coupling is at fault. Sometimes it erroneously gives "on
customer premises" when the fault is in the drop line to the master
socket. Otherwise it seems to be fairly accurate.

They dug a failed joint up in front of my house recently. It was old and
leaking when he shook it you could hear the water sloshing around
inside. No wonder half the village had lost broadband - even POTS was
borderline sounding like it was live from the battle of the Somme.

If there are any aluminium to copper cable joints in the neighbourhood
then they know they are on a hiding to nothing. At 6 km range you are
doing well to get a stable 1Mbps I presume you rounded up 448k uplink
speed which is a common maximum in rural areas.

Martin Brown
Old August 29th 17, 03:20 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 99
Default Persuading BT OPenreach to investigate broadband problem

On 24/08/2017 18:00, NY wrote:
"Dick" wrote in message
Unfortunately the HomeHub 5 doesn't list any line stats like noise
margin and attenuation, and I didn't have my Netgear router with me
that gives those stats.

The Homehub 5 does list all the line stats. Go to Troubleshooting

Ah, thanks. I'll remember that for next time. I wish all routers would
have consistent (or at least intuitive) menus for line stats/speed - the
Technicolour routers that Plusnet use are particicularly hard to fathom.

Some of them hide the details screen behind a "Here be dragons" warning
notice to put people off looking.

If it wasn't so far to drive and the customer wasn't so hard of hearing,
I'd check whether the stats vary between the times when ping and web
access work and when they don't, even though the line speed is the same
in both cases.

If it is a bad/intermittent fault you will get quadratically increasing
delays if the same packet goes missing several times.

I wonder whether part of the problem is that the router is being
over-ambitious: trying (and failing) to talk at a higher speed, when it
could work reliably at a slightly slower speed.

Usually it settles on a noise margin of 6dB by default but if it is
struggling with a bad rural line the margin gets increased by a multiple
of 3dB upto about 15dB is the worst I have ever seen. At that you are
down to truly poxy sync speeds and a fault that they can find reliably.

The snag is that line tests can sometimes heal a temporary fault.

Mine usually sits around 5Mbps and 9dB.

You can force an optimistic speed connection by reconnecting just after
midday or a pessimistic slower one by reconnecting after sunset when
there is more interference from distant MW radio stations.

Round here Clannet point to point over microwave is rapidly gaining
customers in the various not spots with dreadful fixed lines.

Martin Brown

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