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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Million Britons miss out on 'decent' broadband speeds



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 20th 17, 06:21 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 197
Default Million Britons miss out on 'decent' broadband speeds

Martin Brown wrote:

Hell will freeze over before BT installs any new cable here


It will be interesting to see whether today's announcement means all
customers will have the "right to get" 10Mbps speeds by 2020, or merely
the right to "ask for it" and be given a ****-off price.
  #22  
Old December 20th 17, 08:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 626
Default Million Britons miss out on 'decent' broadband speeds

Andy Burns wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

Hell will freeze over before BT installs any new cable here


It will be interesting to see whether today's announcement means all
customers will have the "right to get" 10Mbps speeds by 2020, or
merely the right to "ask for it" and be given a ****-off price.


I suspect it will be a right-to-ask.

There is a presentation at:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultatio.../broadband-uso

.... and a document you can download.

All it does is move the goalposts a little. If supplying you with
decent broadband costs up to 3,400 (the same figure as for a telephone
line) then this would exclude about 1% of premises.

So one might suppose that 1% of premises would be asked for a financial
contribution, which may be equivalent to "being given a ****-off price".

The highest costs are estimated at about 45,000 - for which one could
probably buy FTTP from any one of a number of commercial suppliers.

Technology will help in some areas: those with long Exchange Only lines
may get Fibre-to-the-Remote-Node (FTTrN) see:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.ph...ogy-works.html

.... and availability of this may improve with "right-to-ask".

So expect a small improvement in availability.

Which if it were a road, water supply, or sewerage system might be
acceptable. If you want to live "off-grid" you can provide these
facilities yourself - there's nothing to stop you.

But increasingly every member of the population requires a reasonably
fast internet connection in order to deal with government: to pay taxes,
claim benefits, and the like. So it should become more like the NHS,
police, or the armed forces - made available to everybody in the country
(although health services and policing do increasingly require the
citizen to fund his/her own needs).

--
Graham J









  #23  
Old December 21st 17, 10:25 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
stephen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 359
Default Million Britons miss out on 'decent' broadband speeds

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 20:45:43 +0000, Graham J
wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

Hell will freeze over before BT installs any new cable here


It will be interesting to see whether today's announcement means all
customers will have the "right to get" 10Mbps speeds by 2020, or
merely the right to "ask for it" and be given a ****-off price.


I suspect it will be a right-to-ask.

There is a presentation at:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultatio.../broadband-uso

... and a document you can download.

All it does is move the goalposts a little. If supplying you with
decent broadband costs up to 3,400 (the same figure as for a telephone
line) then this would exclude about 1% of premises.

So one might suppose that 1% of premises would be asked for a financial
contribution, which may be equivalent to "being given a ****-off price".

The highest costs are estimated at about 45,000 - for which one could
probably buy FTTP from any one of a number of commercial suppliers.

I suspect there are some worse edge cases - off shore islands where
the subsea cables dont go for example.

Technology will help in some areas: those with long Exchange Only lines
may get Fibre-to-the-Remote-Node (FTTrN) see:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.ph...ogy-works.html

... and availability of this may improve with "right-to-ask".

So expect a small improvement in availability.

Which if it were a road, water supply, or sewerage system might be
acceptable. If you want to live "off-grid" you can provide these
facilities yourself - there's nothing to stop you.

But increasingly every member of the population requires a reasonably
fast internet connection in order to deal with government: to pay taxes,
claim benefits, and the like. So it should become more like the NHS,
police, or the armed forces - made available to everybody in the country
(although health services and policing do increasingly require the
citizen to fund his/her own needs).


You are ignoring radio - 10M and up is doable on a point to multipoint
shared system, which seems to be the solution used by some of the
WISPs.

If you are a long way "off grid" then point to point radio at 100m and
30 Km with line of sight has been around for a long time - but might
need mast space and 10k to 20k of equipment.....

--
Stephen
  #24  
Old December 21st 17, 10:56 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 634
Default Million Britons miss out on 'decent' broadband speeds


"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 20:45:43 +0000, Graham J
wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

Hell will freeze over before BT installs any new cable here

It will be interesting to see whether today's announcement means
all
customers will have the "right to get" 10Mbps speeds by 2020, or
merely the right to "ask for it" and be given a ****-off price.


I suspect it will be a right-to-ask.

There is a presentation at:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultatio.../broadband-uso

... and a document you can download.

All it does is move the goalposts a little. If supplying you with
decent broadband costs up to 3,400 (the same figure as for a
telephone
line) then this would exclude about 1% of premises.

So one might suppose that 1% of premises would be asked for a
financial
contribution, which may be equivalent to "being given a ****-off
price".

The highest costs are estimated at about 45,000 - for which one
could
probably buy FTTP from any one of a number of commercial suppliers.

I suspect there are some worse edge cases - off shore islands where
the subsea cables dont go for example.

Technology will help in some areas: those with long Exchange Only
lines
may get Fibre-to-the-Remote-Node (FTTrN) see:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.ph...ogy-works.html

... and availability of this may improve with "right-to-ask".

So expect a small improvement in availability.

Which if it were a road, water supply, or sewerage system might be
acceptable. If you want to live "off-grid" you can provide these
facilities yourself - there's nothing to stop you.

But increasingly every member of the population requires a
reasonably
fast internet connection in order to deal with government: to pay
taxes,
claim benefits, and the like. So it should become more like the
NHS,
police, or the armed forces - made available to everybody in the
country
(although health services and policing do increasingly require the
citizen to fund his/her own needs).


You are ignoring radio - 10M and up is doable on a point to
multipoint
shared system, which seems to be the solution used by some of the
WISPs.

If you are a long way "off grid" then point to point radio at 100m
and
30 Km with line of sight has been around for a long time - but might
need mast space and 10k to 20k of equipment.....



You can get licence-free microwave links with a range of 5Km LoS for
not a lot of money.

You can also get short range links that work in the wi-fi band(s) to
extend wi-fi coverage for even less!




  #25  
Old December 21st 17, 12:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 84
Default Million Britons miss out on 'decent' broadband speeds

On 20/12/2017 18:21, Andy Burns wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

Hell will freeze over before BT installs any new cable here


It will be interesting to see whether today's announcement means all
customers will have the "right to get" 10Mbps speeds by 2020, or merely
the right to "ask for it" and be given a ****-off price.


I strongly suspect the latter.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #26  
Old December 21st 17, 12:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 84
Default Million Britons miss out on 'decent' broadband speeds

On 20/12/2017 20:45, Graham J wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

Hell will freeze over before BT installs any new cable here


It will be interesting to see whether today's announcement means all
customers will have the "right to get" 10Mbps speeds by 2020, or
merely the right to "ask for it" and be given a ****-off price.


I suspect it will be a right-to-ask.

There is a presentation at:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultatio.../broadband-uso


... and a document you can download.

All it does is move the goalposts a little.* If supplying you with
decent broadband costs up to 3,400 (the same figure as for a telephone
line) then this would exclude about 1% of premises.

So one might suppose that 1% of premises would be asked for a financial
contribution, which may be equivalent to "being given a ****-off price".

The highest costs are estimated at about 45,000 - for which one could
probably buy FTTP from any one of a number of commercial suppliers.

Technology will help in some areas: those with long Exchange Only lines
may get Fibre-to-the-Remote-Node (FTTrN) see:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.ph...ogy-works.html


... and availability of this may improve with "right-to-ask".


I somehow doubt it. They have as far as I know stopped rolling it out in
the trial areas. It was a victim of its own (limited) success and insane
overhead costs per line since power fixed charges dominated operations.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fib...ned-to-it.html

It has all gone very quiet. A lucky few perhaps still have it since I
can't see that they would dare take it away again after installing it!

So expect a small improvement in availability.

Which if it were a road, water supply, or sewerage system might be
acceptable.* If you want to live "off-grid" you can provide these
facilities yourself - there's nothing to stop you.


A decent Yagi antenna and a 3G dongle will work in some places but the
data charges sting a bit. You wouldn't be streaming video that way.

But increasingly every member of the population requires a reasonably
fast internet connection in order to deal with government: to pay taxes,
claim benefits, and the like.* So it should become more like the NHS,
police, or the armed forces - made available to everybody in the country
(although health services and policing do increasingly require the
citizen to fund his/her own needs).


It is very hard for farmers on unstable 1Mbps internet connections. And
such dodgy hardware isn't all that uncommon in the Dales.

Microwave based links going back to schools is the least bad option if
you have line of sight on a node like Clannet and others offer. Our VH
is in the process of becoming a link node for their network.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #27  
Old December 21st 17, 12:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 626
Default Million Britons miss out on 'decent' broadband speeds

Woody wrote:

[snip]


If you are a long way "off grid" then point to point radio at 100m
and
30 Km with line of sight has been around for a long time - but might
need mast space and 10k to 20k of equipment.....



You can get licence-free microwave links with a range of 5Km LoS for
not a lot of money.

You can also get short range links that work in the wi-fi band(s) to
extend wi-fi coverage for even less!


In the fenland area I've set up a few LoS links over distances up to
about 3km - they work well. But the civil engineering challenges where
the landscape is not dead flat are quite significant, so you would need
a specialist supplier.

--
Graham J


  #28  
Old December 22nd 17, 05:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MB[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 169
Default Million Britons miss out on 'decent' broadband speeds

On 20/12/2017 18:21, Andy Burns wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

Hell will freeze over before BT installs any new cable here


It will be interesting to see whether today's announcement means all
customers will have the "right to get" 10Mbps speeds by 2020, or merely
the right to "ask for it" and be given a ****-off price.


Despite all the headlines, there is a "get out" clause to cover places
where it would be very expensive. So the person buying a cottage in the
middle of the Highlands and expecting to run a web based business can
expect to not be subsidised by the rest of us.

  #29  
Old December 22nd 17, 05:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MB[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 169
Default Million Britons miss out on 'decent' broadband speeds

On 20/12/2017 20:45, Graham J wrote:
Which if it were a road, water supply, or sewerage system might be
acceptable.* If you want to live "off-grid" you can provide these
facilities yourself - there's nothing to stop you.

But increasingly every member of the population requires a reasonably
fast internet connection in order to deal with government: to pay taxes,
claim benefits, and the like.* So it should become more like the NHS,
police, or the armed forces - made available to everybody in the country
(although health services and policing do increasingly require the
citizen to fund his/her own needs).




The newspapers should run a few stories on tex avoiding expats buying
nice cottages in remote parts of the Highlands or even their own island
then expecting the rest of us to heavily subsidise their phone and
broadband.

  #30  
Old December 22nd 17, 07:53 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Million Britons miss out on 'decent' broadband speeds

On 22/12/2017 17:22, MB wrote:

The newspapers should run a few stories on tex avoiding expats buying
nice cottages in remote parts of the Highlands or even their own island
then expecting the rest of us to heavily subsidise their phone and
broadband.


What other deluded fantasies from your fevered brain should they be running?
 




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