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BT Openroach double blow jobs holding up UK productivity



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 1st 18, 11:02 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 392
Default BT Openroach double blow jobs holding up UK productivity

On Thursday, 28 December 2017 19:58:23 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 28/12/2017 17:58, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 11:46:33 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 27/12/2017 13:19, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
So what would a residential subscriber use FTTH/P for that they can't get / do with FTTC at 50 - 100Mbps? Do tell.
Live at the wrong end of a long thin village with only one cabinet.

50Mbit implies you are less than 300M from the cabinet.

400m as the crow flies and 500m by wire. 1.3km from exchange as the crow flies and used to get ~13Mbps before FTTC - you might get more now they put an FTTC node in the exchange as well.


I looked he
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide...roadband-guide

200m 65 Mbps
300m 45 Mbps

Though it is just an estimate...
Oh:"The distance estimates are designed so that we expect the vast
majority to exceed these guideline figures" - perhaps yours are typical
figures?

Andy


I would think so. We have some pretty crap underground aluminium cable and poor jointing*, but the speed seems pretty stable and reliable.



* we used to suffer frequent faults, mostly classed as 'underground' due to water ingress, although ham fisted engineers fixing other lines and knocking off ours was the more usual cause to the extent that I used to check for them working nearby before phoning in faults.
  #2  
Old January 1st 18, 11:26 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
7[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 420
Default BT Openroach double blow jobs holding up UK productivity

R. Mark Clayton wrote:

On Thursday, 28 December 2017 19:58:23 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 28/12/2017 17:58, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 11:46:33 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 27/12/2017 13:19, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
So what would a residential subscriber use FTTH/P for that they can't
get / do with FTTC at 50 - 100Mbps? Do tell.
Live at the wrong end of a long thin village with only one cabinet.

50Mbit implies you are less than 300M from the cabinet.
400m as the crow flies and 500m by wire. 1.3km from exchange as the
crow flies and used to get ~13Mbps before FTTC - you might get more now
they put an FTTC node in the exchange as well.


I looked he
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide...roadband-guide

200m 65 Mbps
300m 45 Mbps

Though it is just an estimate...
Oh:"The distance estimates are designed so that we expect the vast
majority to exceed these guideline figures" - perhaps yours are typical
figures?

Andy


I would think so. We have some pretty crap underground aluminium cable
and poor jointing*, but the speed seems pretty stable and reliable.


At 20x expense and 1/20th the speed compared to fibre.
Are you sure you are not better off using a wet string?


* we used to suffer frequent faults, mostly classed as 'underground' due
to water ingress, although ham fisted engineers fixing other lines and
knocking off ours was the more usual cause to the extent that I used to
check for them working nearby before phoning in faults.


Fibre optics - no problem with water ingress.
Cheaper to lay cables and more denser wiring.
  #3  
Old January 1st 18, 02:28 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 392
Default BT Openroach double blow jobs holding up UK productivity

On Monday, 1 January 2018 11:26:32 UTC, 7 wrote:
R. Mark Clayton wrote:

On Thursday, 28 December 2017 19:58:23 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 28/12/2017 17:58, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 11:46:33 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 27/12/2017 13:19, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
So what would a residential subscriber use FTTH/P for that they can't
get / do with FTTC at 50 - 100Mbps? Do tell.
Live at the wrong end of a long thin village with only one cabinet.

50Mbit implies you are less than 300M from the cabinet.
400m as the crow flies and 500m by wire. 1.3km from exchange as the
crow flies and used to get ~13Mbps before FTTC - you might get more now
they put an FTTC node in the exchange as well.


I looked he
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide...roadband-guide

200m 65 Mbps
300m 45 Mbps

Though it is just an estimate...
Oh:"The distance estimates are designed so that we expect the vast
majority to exceed these guideline figures" - perhaps yours are typical
figures?

Andy


I would think so. We have some pretty crap underground aluminium cable
and poor jointing*, but the speed seems pretty stable and reliable.


At 20x expense and 1/20th the speed compared to fibre.
Are you sure you are not better off using a wet string?


It has been there forty years and long since amortised (and paid for by the first owners NOT BT). It still works to 50+Mbps.

To put in fibre would involve a dig up [no duct] and cost all over again.



* we used to suffer frequent faults, mostly classed as 'underground' due
to water ingress, although ham fisted engineers fixing other lines and
knocking off ours was the more usual cause to the extent that I used to
check for them working nearby before phoning in faults.


Fibre optics - no problem with water ingress.
Cheaper to lay cables and more denser wiring.


Not much cheaper to lay, and higher skilled labour needed to joint.
  #4  
Old January 1st 18, 03:04 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
7[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 420
Default BT Openroach double blow jobs holding up UK productivity

R. Mark Clayton wrote:

On Monday, 1 January 2018 11:26:32 UTC, 7 wrote:
R. Mark Clayton wrote:

On Thursday, 28 December 2017 19:58:23 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 28/12/2017 17:58, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 11:46:33 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 27/12/2017 13:19, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
So what would a residential subscriber use FTTH/P for that they
can't
get / do with FTTC at 50 - 100Mbps? Do tell.
Live at the wrong end of a long thin village with only one cabinet.

50Mbit implies you are less than 300M from the cabinet.
400m as the crow flies and 500m by wire. 1.3km from exchange as the
crow flies and used to get ~13Mbps before FTTC - you might get more
now they put an FTTC node in the exchange as well.


I looked he
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide...roadband-guide

200m 65 Mbps
300m 45 Mbps

Though it is just an estimate...
Oh:"The distance estimates are designed so that we expect the vast
majority to exceed these guideline figures" - perhaps yours are
typical figures?

Andy

I would think so. We have some pretty crap underground aluminium cable
and poor jointing*, but the speed seems pretty stable and reliable.


At 20x expense and 1/20th the speed compared to fibre.
Are you sure you are not better off using a wet string?


It has been there forty years and long since amortised (and paid for by
the first owners NOT BT). It still works to 50+Mbps.

To put in fibre would involve a dig up [no duct] and cost all over
again.



At 20x expense of fibre.

It costs under 150 per household to install new fibre.

It is paid for in under 2 years at 30 per internet connection.

If using offcum doing double blow job empty fibre tube install
followed by blowing fibre, then it costs 500 per household.
If they re-train to install fibre in one sitting directly instead
of a double blow job, it costs under 150 per household average.

Fibre doesn't require brick line tunnels and water ingress
protection and isn't affected by lightening and costs under 2 per
meter for several hundred cores. It takes 3 minutes with fully
automated 6 axis fusion splicer costing $1000 to join with under
0.01db loss today. And you can wear sandals while installing
as they do all over 3rd world countries.

Even 3rd world Azerbaijan has double mobile internet
speeds than UK, and well above its average speed on out date
copper network average speed because all the masts get fibre.



* we used to suffer frequent faults, mostly classed as 'underground'
due to water ingress, although ham fisted engineers fixing other lines
and knocking off ours was the more usual cause to the extent that I
used to check for them working nearby before phoning in faults.


Fibre optics - no problem with water ingress.
Cheaper to lay cables and more denser wiring.


Not much cheaper to lay, and higher skilled labour needed to joint.


It costs under 150 per household to install new fibre.

It is paid for in under 2 years at 30 per internet connection.

If using offcum doing double blow job empty fibre tube install
followed by blowing fibre, then it costs 500 per household.
If they re-train to install fibre in one sitting directly instead
of a double blow job, it costs under 150 per household average.

Fibre doesn't require brick line tunnels and water ingress
protection and isn't affected by lightening and costs under 2 per
meter for several hundred cores. It takes 3 minutes with fully
automated 6 axis fusion splicer costing $1000 to join with under
0.01db loss today. And you can wear sandals while installing
as they do all over 3rd world countries.

Even 3rd world Azerbaijan has double mobile internet
speeds than UK, and well above UK average speed on out date
copper network because all their masts get fibre.

So you see troll, there is no winning for BT shiite investors here.
Move along, and find something else to do for the rest of the year
while shiite's investors and shiite investor values and
their supporters are pooped upon from high.

If they could be dismantled this year with a leafletting
campain, that would be a result.



  #5  
Old January 1st 18, 09:51 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Vir Campestris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 192
Default BT Openroach double blow jobs holding up UK productivity

On 01/01/2018 14:28, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
Not much cheaper to lay, and higher skilled labour needed to joint.


The guys who installed the duct across to our house weren't very
skilled. When I asked them the minimum bend radius they looked at each
other, and one said "We did that on the course didn't we?". Neither knew.

I think the guy with the jointer had a brain though.

Andy
  #6  
Old January 1st 18, 11:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
7[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 420
Default BT Openroach double blow jobs holding up UK productivity

Vir Campestris wrote:

On 01/01/2018 14:28, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
Not much cheaper to lay, and higher skilled labour needed to joint.


The guys who installed the duct across to our house weren't very
skilled. When I asked them the minimum bend radius they looked at each
other, and one said "We did that on the course didn't we?". Neither knew.

I think the guy with the jointer had a brain though.


You can wear sandals and join fibre today with 6 axis
motorized joiners costing $1000 that line up
and fuse the fibre in under 3 minutes with
better than 0.01db loss.
Thats what they do all around the globe all day.

Who cares about bend radius - it isn't something
you would need to worry about.
The machine tells you if the loss is bad to pass and that can
come about from bend radius to bad joins.
  #7  
Old January 2nd 18, 11:16 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 392
Default BT Openroach double blow jobs holding up UK productivity

On Monday, 1 January 2018 23:53:03 UTC, 7 wrote:
Vir Campestris wrote:

On 01/01/2018 14:28, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
Not much cheaper to lay, and higher skilled labour needed to joint.


The guys who installed the duct across to our house weren't very
skilled. When I asked them the minimum bend radius they looked at each
other, and one said "We did that on the course didn't we?". Neither knew.

I think the guy with the jointer had a brain though.


You can wear sandals and join fibre today with 6 axis
motorized joiners costing $1000 that line up
and fuse the fibre in under 3 minutes with
better than 0.01db loss.
Thats what they do all around the globe all day.


I did look that up they cost around 10k


Who cares about bend radius - it isn't something
you would need to worry about.
The machine tells you if the loss is bad to pass and that can
come about from bend radius to bad joins.


Just pull it out and reinstall - no cost then?
  #8  
Old January 2nd 18, 03:39 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
7[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 420
Default BT Openroach double blow jobs holding up UK productivity

R. Mark Clayton wrote:

On Monday, 1 January 2018 23:53:03 UTC, 7 wrote:
Vir Campestris wrote:

On 01/01/2018 14:28, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
Not much cheaper to lay, and higher skilled labour needed to joint.

The guys who installed the duct across to our house weren't very
skilled. When I asked them the minimum bend radius they looked at each
other, and one said "We did that on the course didn't we?". Neither
knew.

I think the guy with the jointer had a brain though.


You can wear sandals and join fibre today with 6 axis
motorized joiners costing $1000 that line up
and fuse the fibre in under 3 minutes with
better than 0.01db loss.
Thats what they do all around the globe all day.


I did look that up they cost around 10k


Troll!!

6 axis fully automatic fusion splicer like this?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DHL-...734790096.html

$1,038 including shipping.


Who cares about bend radius - it isn't something
you would need to worry about.
The machine tells you if the loss is bad to pass and that can
come about from bend radius to bad joins.


Just pull it out and reinstall - no cost then?


You got around a hundred fibres at $2 a meter,
just break the fscker off, and do another one
in under 3 minutes. It is part of the job description.

  #9  
Old January 2nd 18, 10:57 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Vir Campestris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 192
Default BT Openroach double blow jobs holding up UK productivity

On 02/01/2018 11:16, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Monday, 1 January 2018 23:53:03 UTC, 7 wrote:


Who cares about bend radius - it isn't something
you would need to worry about.
The machine tells you if the loss is bad to pass and that can
come about from bend radius to bad joins.


Just pull it out and reinstall - no cost then?


I care about bend radius. I might want to move it a little.

Andy
 




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