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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

BT HH4 speed issue



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 20th 18, 05:24 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 675
Default BT HH4 speed issue

A friend who is a farmer also runs a small caravan site and has provided
free wi-fi for his guests. He is at the end of almost 3000m of (mainly)
overhead line and so the download speed is slow.

When we arrived on site last month it was doing almost 1.6Mb. We then had
two nights of heavy rain and frighteningly high winds. When I checked again
the download was only 650K but the upload was unchanged at about 760K. The
farm is in East Somerset: Speedtest using Vodafone servers at Newbury gives
about 19mS ping.

When we revisited this month the speed was unchanged - 650K and 760K. Today
I power cycled the HH4 and within 10 minutes it was doing 1.53Mb: now, some
6 hours later it is doing just over 1.8Mb with upload still at 760K.

Two questions:

Should the HH4 have retrained to the higher speed without need for power
cycle intervention, should I try to get himself to use a better router, or
is this a BTOR issue? All lines incidentally are through BT Business.

The overhead carries four pairs all of which are active and carry their own
broadband. BT dslchecker indicates two lines (those used for the campers and
the domestic B/B) should be able to do 1-3Mb, the third line (used for the
farm business) should be able to do 2.5-3.5Mb, and the fourth line (used by
his son's business) should be able to handle 2-6Mb - and indeed this seems
to be the case, today the latter line was doing 5.86Mb. It baffles me that
four lines all running the same route and in the same cable (there are no
streetcabs on this exchange) can have such speed variation. They are all
direct exchange lines (fibre is not available on this exchange and there is
no LLU) and have a single U/G and O/H cable feed. About six houses in a
hamlet that also use the same feed (split at a pole-top DP) I am told also
suffer from slow speeds. For the record I have done quiet line tests on the
campers line and on the high-speed (!) line: the campers line is (a bit)
lower audio level than the other and has noticeably more hiss on it but
neither has any crackling and both ring without problem.

Anyone any suggestions on either or both questions?

Woody

  #2  
Old February 20th 18, 08:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 526
Default BT HH4 speed issue

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 17:24:55 UTC, Woody wrote:
A friend who is a farmer also runs a small caravan site and has provided
free wi-fi for his guests. He is at the end of almost 3000m of (mainly)
overhead line and so the download speed is slow.

When we arrived on site last month it was doing almost 1.6Mb. We then had
two nights of heavy rain and frighteningly high winds. When I checked again
the download was only 650K but the upload was unchanged at about 760K. The
farm is in East Somerset: Speedtest using Vodafone servers at Newbury gives
about 19mS ping.

When we revisited this month the speed was unchanged - 650K and 760K. Today
I power cycled the HH4 and within 10 minutes it was doing 1.53Mb: now, some
6 hours later it is doing just over 1.8Mb with upload still at 760K.

Two questions:

Should the HH4 have retrained to the higher speed without need for power
cycle intervention, should I try to get himself to use a better router, or
is this a BTOR issue? All lines incidentally are through BT Business.

The overhead carries four pairs all of which are active and carry their own
broadband. BT dslchecker indicates two lines (those used for the campers and
the domestic B/B) should be able to do 1-3Mb, the third line (used for the
farm business) should be able to do 2.5-3.5Mb, and the fourth line (used by
his son's business) should be able to handle 2-6Mb - and indeed this seems
to be the case, today the latter line was doing 5.86Mb. It baffles me that
four lines all running the same route and in the same cable (there are no
streetcabs on this exchange) can have such speed variation. They are all
direct exchange lines (fibre is not available on this exchange and there is
no LLU) and have a single U/G and O/H cable feed. About six houses in a
hamlet that also use the same feed (split at a pole-top DP) I am told also
suffer from slow speeds. For the record I have done quiet line tests on the
campers line and on the high-speed (!) line: the campers line is (a bit)
lower audio level than the other and has noticeably more hiss on it but
neither has any crackling and both ring without problem.

Anyone any suggestions on either or both questions?

Woody


1. Get a HH6 or Draytek 2960 (better).
2. Ring the number the router is on and let it ring out for a couple of minutes.
  #3  
Old February 20th 18, 08:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 675
Default BT HH4 speed issue


"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 17:24:55 UTC, Woody wrote:
A friend who is a farmer also runs a small caravan site and has
provided
free wi-fi for his guests. He is at the end of almost 3000m of
(mainly)
overhead line and so the download speed is slow.

When we arrived on site last month it was doing almost 1.6Mb. We
then had
two nights of heavy rain and frighteningly high winds. When I
checked again
the download was only 650K but the upload was unchanged at about
760K. The
farm is in East Somerset: Speedtest using Vodafone servers at
Newbury gives
about 19mS ping.

When we revisited this month the speed was unchanged - 650K and
760K. Today
I power cycled the HH4 and within 10 minutes it was doing 1.53Mb:
now, some
6 hours later it is doing just over 1.8Mb with upload still at
760K.

Two questions:

Should the HH4 have retrained to the higher speed without need for
power
cycle intervention, should I try to get himself to use a better
router, or
is this a BTOR issue? All lines incidentally are through BT
Business.

The overhead carries four pairs all of which are active and carry
their own
broadband. BT dslchecker indicates two lines (those used for the
campers and
the domestic B/B) should be able to do 1-3Mb, the third line (used
for the
farm business) should be able to do 2.5-3.5Mb, and the fourth line
(used by
his son's business) should be able to handle 2-6Mb - and indeed
this seems
to be the case, today the latter line was doing 5.86Mb. It baffles
me that
four lines all running the same route and in the same cable (there
are no
streetcabs on this exchange) can have such speed variation. They
are all
direct exchange lines (fibre is not available on this exchange and
there is
no LLU) and have a single U/G and O/H cable feed. About six houses
in a
hamlet that also use the same feed (split at a pole-top DP) I am
told also
suffer from slow speeds. For the record I have done quiet line
tests on the
campers line and on the high-speed (!) line: the campers line is (a
bit)
lower audio level than the other and has noticeably more hiss on it
but
neither has any crackling and both ring without problem.

Anyone any suggestions on either or both questions?

Woody


1. Get a HH6 or Draytek 2960 (better).
2. Ring the number the router is on and let it ring out for a couple
of minutes.



This may sound daft but I assume the ringing test is with a phone
plugged in - this line is used for B/B only so normally has no phone.

Being a farm I will ask if they have any of the old external bells
left as they have a REN of 4 so will pull rather more current,
otherwise I'll get a 470R or 390R 10W resistor and put it across the
line in series with a 2u2F cap.

That do it do you think?


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #4  
Old February 20th 18, 08:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 526
Default BT HH4 speed issue

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 20:26:17 UTC, Woody wrote:
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 17:24:55 UTC, Woody wrote:
A friend who is a farmer also runs a small caravan site and has
provided
free wi-fi for his guests. He is at the end of almost 3000m of
(mainly)
overhead line and so the download speed is slow.

When we arrived on site last month it was doing almost 1.6Mb. We
then had
two nights of heavy rain and frighteningly high winds. When I
checked again
the download was only 650K but the upload was unchanged at about
760K. The
farm is in East Somerset: Speedtest using Vodafone servers at
Newbury gives
about 19mS ping.

When we revisited this month the speed was unchanged - 650K and
760K. Today
I power cycled the HH4 and within 10 minutes it was doing 1.53Mb:
now, some
6 hours later it is doing just over 1.8Mb with upload still at
760K.

Two questions:

Should the HH4 have retrained to the higher speed without need for
power
cycle intervention, should I try to get himself to use a better
router, or
is this a BTOR issue? All lines incidentally are through BT
Business.

The overhead carries four pairs all of which are active and carry
their own
broadband. BT dslchecker indicates two lines (those used for the
campers and
the domestic B/B) should be able to do 1-3Mb, the third line (used
for the
farm business) should be able to do 2.5-3.5Mb, and the fourth line
(used by
his son's business) should be able to handle 2-6Mb - and indeed
this seems
to be the case, today the latter line was doing 5.86Mb. It baffles
me that
four lines all running the same route and in the same cable (there
are no
streetcabs on this exchange) can have such speed variation. They
are all
direct exchange lines (fibre is not available on this exchange and
there is
no LLU) and have a single U/G and O/H cable feed. About six houses
in a
hamlet that also use the same feed (split at a pole-top DP) I am
told also
suffer from slow speeds. For the record I have done quiet line
tests on the
campers line and on the high-speed (!) line: the campers line is (a
bit)
lower audio level than the other and has noticeably more hiss on it
but
neither has any crackling and both ring without problem.

Anyone any suggestions on either or both questions?

Woody


1. Get a HH6 or Draytek 2960 (better).
2. Ring the number the router is on and let it ring out for a couple
of minutes.



This may sound daft but I assume the ringing test is with a phone
plugged in - this line is used for B/B only so normally has no phone.

Being a farm I will ask if they have any of the old external bells
left as they have a REN of 4 so will pull rather more current,


Indeed.

otherwise I'll get a 470R or 390R 10W resistor and put it across the
line in series with a 2u2F cap.


Can't comment on the components required.


That do it do you think?


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #5  
Old February 20th 18, 08:40 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
7[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 508
Default BT HH4 speed issue

Woody wrote:

A friend who is a farmer also runs a small caravan site and has provided
free wi-fi for his guests. He is at the end of almost 3000m of (mainly)
overhead line and so the download speed is slow.

When we arrived on site last month it was doing almost 1.6Mb. We then had
two nights of heavy rain and frighteningly high winds. When I checked
again the download was only 650K but the upload was unchanged at about
760K. The farm is in East Somerset: Speedtest using Vodafone servers at
Newbury gives about 19mS ping.

When we revisited this month the speed was unchanged - 650K and 760K.
Today I power cycled the HH4 and within 10 minutes it was doing 1.53Mb:
now, some 6 hours later it is doing just over 1.8Mb with upload still at
760K.

Two questions:

Should the HH4 have retrained to the higher speed without need for power
cycle intervention, should I try to get himself to use a better router, or
is this a BTOR issue? All lines incidentally are through BT Business.

The overhead carries four pairs all of which are active and carry their
own broadband. BT dslchecker indicates two lines (those used for the
campers and the domestic B/B) should be able to do 1-3Mb, the third line
(used for the farm business) should be able to do 2.5-3.5Mb, and the
fourth line (used by his son's business) should be able to handle 2-6Mb -
and indeed this seems to be the case, today the latter line was doing
5.86Mb. It baffles me that four lines all running the same route and in
the same cable (there are no streetcabs on this exchange) can have such
speed variation. They are all direct exchange lines (fibre is not
available on this exchange and there is no LLU) and have a single U/G and
O/H cable feed. About six houses in a
hamlet that also use the same feed (split at a pole-top DP) I am told
also suffer from slow speeds. For the record I have done quiet line tests
on the campers line and on the high-speed (!) line: the campers line is (a
bit) lower audio level than the other and has noticeably more hiss on it
but neither has any crackling and both ring without problem.

Anyone any suggestions on either or both questions?

Woody


Never ask for copper broadband instead ask for cheapest
symmetric fibre internet provisioning costs. If they
lie about the cost, take them to court.

Insist that fibre be unbundled and ask Openroach to connect
you with cheap symmetric fibre from their 10gbit
cabinet down the 3km trek.

Obviously they are going to fish out their krone tools
and master bait in bewilderment so be sure to post the photos.


  #6  
Old February 20th 18, 11:08 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 689
Default BT HH4 speed issue

Woody wrote:
A friend who is a farmer also runs a small caravan site and has provided
free wi-fi for his guests. He is at the end of almost 3000m of (mainly)
overhead line and so the download speed is slow.

When we arrived on site last month it was doing almost 1.6Mb. We then had
two nights of heavy rain and frighteningly high winds. When I checked again
the download was only 650K but the upload was unchanged at about 760K. The
farm is in East Somerset: Speedtest using Vodafone servers at Newbury gives
about 19mS ping.

When we revisited this month the speed was unchanged - 650K and 760K. Today
I power cycled the HH4 and within 10 minutes it was doing 1.53Mb: now, some
6 hours later it is doing just over 1.8Mb with upload still at 760K.

Two questions:

Should the HH4 have retrained to the higher speed without need for power
cycle intervention, should I try to get himself to use a better router, or
is this a BTOR issue? All lines incidentally are through BT Business.


My experience is that many routers do need a power cycle or an
interruption in ADSL sync to force a retrain. A better router may
improve things. The Vigor range can be programmed to reboot themselves
on a schedule, so that might allow for automatic recovery from such
problems.


The overhead carries four pairs all of which are active and carry their own
broadband. BT dslchecker indicates two lines (those used for the campers
and
the domestic B/B) should be able to do 1-3Mb, the third line (used for the
farm business) should be able to do 2.5-3.5Mb, and the fourth line (used by
his son's business) should be able to handle 2-6Mb - and indeed this seems
to be the case, today the latter line was doing 5.86Mb. It baffles me that
four lines all running the same route and in the same cable (there are no
streetcabs on this exchange) can have such speed variation. They are all
direct exchange lines (fibre is not available on this exchange and there is
no LLU) and have a single U/G and O/H cable feed. About six houses in a
hamlet that also use the same feed (split at a pole-top DP) I am told also
suffer from slow speeds. For the record I have done quiet line tests on the
campers line and on the high-speed (!) line: the campers line is (a bit)
lower audio level than the other and has noticeably more hiss on it but
neither has any crackling and both ring without problem.

Anyone any suggestions on either or both questions?



1. Get all the internal wiring up to scratch: faceplate filter in
proper master socket, no legacy extension wiring connected anywhere
between master socket and exchange (such unterminated stubs can be quite
common on farm installations); all necessary extensions wired correctly
to the faceplate filter.

2. If a line is ever audibly noisy report it to the voice service
provider (exaggerate if necessary, say it so bad you can't hear the
other party). Don't mention broadband - it only confuses them.

3. For diagnostics use a router that supports RouterStats,
see: http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm
.... and monitor the line performance.

4. Change ISP to one that will provide proper technical support. This
means (given that it is a business) either Zen Internet or Andrews &
Arnold. If the performance is anything less than expected report it and
follow the faultfinding procedures requested by their technical support.

It may be worth finding a local support business familiar with resolving
broadband issues - if you can be more specific about the location
perhaps this ng can make a recommendation.

--
Graham J






  #7  
Old February 21st 18, 08:26 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 675
Default BT HH4 speed issue


"Graham J" wrote in message
news
Woody wrote:
A friend who is a farmer also runs a small caravan site and has
provided
free wi-fi for his guests. He is at the end of almost 3000m of
(mainly)
overhead line and so the download speed is slow.

When we arrived on site last month it was doing almost 1.6Mb. We
then had
two nights of heavy rain and frighteningly high winds. When I
checked again
the download was only 650K but the upload was unchanged at about
760K. The
farm is in East Somerset: Speedtest using Vodafone servers at
Newbury gives
about 19mS ping.

When we revisited this month the speed was unchanged - 650K and
760K. Today
I power cycled the HH4 and within 10 minutes it was doing 1.53Mb:
now, some
6 hours later it is doing just over 1.8Mb with upload still at
760K.

Two questions:

Should the HH4 have retrained to the higher speed without need for
power
cycle intervention, should I try to get himself to use a better
router, or
is this a BTOR issue? All lines incidentally are through BT
Business.


My experience is that many routers do need a power cycle or an
interruption in ADSL sync to force a retrain. A better router may
improve things. The Vigor range can be programmed to reboot
themselves on a schedule, so that might allow for automatic recovery
from such problems.


The overhead carries four pairs all of which are active and carry
their own
broadband. BT dslchecker indicates two lines (those used for the
campers
and
the domestic B/B) should be able to do 1-3Mb, the third line (used
for the
farm business) should be able to do 2.5-3.5Mb, and the fourth line
(used by
his son's business) should be able to handle 2-6Mb - and indeed
this seems
to be the case, today the latter line was doing 5.86Mb. It baffles
me that
four lines all running the same route and in the same cable (there
are no
streetcabs on this exchange) can have such speed variation. They
are all
direct exchange lines (fibre is not available on this exchange and
there is
no LLU) and have a single U/G and O/H cable feed. About six houses
in a
hamlet that also use the same feed (split at a pole-top DP) I am
told also
suffer from slow speeds. For the record I have done quiet line
tests on the
campers line and on the high-speed (!) line: the campers line is (a
bit)
lower audio level than the other and has noticeably more hiss on it
but
neither has any crackling and both ring without problem.

Anyone any suggestions on either or both questions?



1. Get all the internal wiring up to scratch: faceplate filter in
proper master socket, no legacy extension wiring connected anywhere
between master socket and exchange (such unterminated stubs can be
quite common on farm installations); all necessary extensions wired
correctly to the faceplate filter.


The line comes in direct from the overhead (new BT install) to the
NTE5, there are no other line connections to it and no phone either.
It is fitted with an iPlate3 filter.


2. If a line is ever audibly noisy report it to the voice service
provider (exaggerate if necessary, say it so bad you can't hear the
other party). Don't mention broadband - it only confuses them.


Audio IMO is slightly low and there is quite noticable hiss but no
crackle on a quiet line test. The second line (house) has such bad
crackle that they don't use it preferring to stick to mobiles. I have
suggested reporting it as audio noise as I know BT do not guarantee
anything else.

3. For diagnostics use a router that supports RouterStats,
see: http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm
... and monitor the line performance.


The router is as supplied by BT and for the sake of mental comfort I
think our friend would prefer to stay with that so that it is all in
BT's hands.

4. Change ISP to one that will provide proper technical support.
This means (given that it is a business) either Zen Internet or
Andrews & Arnold. If the performance is anything less than expected
report it and follow the faultfinding procedures requested by their
technical support.


He does not want to change ISP as he is on quite a good deal. There is
no LLU on the exchange - indeed broadband to the exchange is on co-ax,
there is no fibre.

It may be worth finding a local support business familiar with
resolving broadband issues - if you can be more specific about the
location perhaps this ng can make a recommendation.


The exchange is Nunney, near Frome in E. Somerset.


SuperfastDevonandSomerset (Gigaclear) are installing fibre for BT in
the area and our friend has been told by BT that fibre will be passing
the end of his lane later this year - which of course means nothing -
but I think he wants to hang on. The Gigaclear web site indicates it
could be up to 3 years before fibre gets to his area.

He could of course go 4G: there is a 3 tower within about 900m LoS
that carries EE4G but only 3G on 3; there is Vodafone 4G on an
electricity pylon about 600m away, and O2 4G which I suspect is from a
hilltop site about 1.5Km away, all of which would work.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #8  
Old February 21st 18, 08:45 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Rodney Pont[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default BT HH4 speed issue

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 08:26:17 -0000, Woody wrote:

Audio IMO is slightly low and there is quite noticable hiss but no
crackle on a quiet line test. The second line (house) has such bad
crackle that they don't use it preferring to stick to mobiles. I have
suggested reporting it as audio noise as I know BT do not guarantee
anything else.


I'd report the hiss to the voice people and if the second line is so
bad that it can't be used it wants reporting or cancelling.

--
Faster, cheaper, quieter than HS2
and built in 5 years;
UKUltraspeed http://www.500kmh.com/


  #9  
Old February 21st 18, 09:15 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 111
Default BT HH4 speed issue

On 20/02/2018 17:24, Woody wrote:
A friend who is a farmer also runs a small caravan site and has provided
free wi-fi for his guests. He is at the end of almost 3000m of (mainly)
overhead line and so the download speed is slow.


My exchage only line is slightly longer than that and about 20% above
ground. I am on the wrong side of the beck and the underground line is
in water. I get 5.5Mbps sync provided there are no gremlins or spiders
in the works. (many people do not get 2Mbps off the same exchange)

When we arrived on site last month it was doing almost 1.6Mb. We then had
two nights of heavy rain and frighteningly high winds. When I checked again
the download was only 650K but the upload was unchanged at about 760K. The
farm is in East Somerset: Speedtest using Vodafone servers at Newbury gives
about 19mS ping.


That is a bit of an odd combination. If the SNR is so bad as to only
support a 1.6Mb sync rate why is the upload speed not pegged at 448k?
And more than that why is it still on FASTPATH with sub 20ms pings?

It would almost certainly benefit from interleaving error correction on
and the upload speed dropping. Resynching at a time of day where radio
interference is strongest will force a slightly more robust connection.
My ping is about 40ms due to interleaving being on.

It would be worth trying the bellwire hack on the slower lines to see if
it will help improve rejection of RF noise. It gained me +50%. YMMV

When we revisited this month the speed was unchanged - 650K and 760K. Today
I power cycled the HH4 and within 10 minutes it was doing 1.53Mb: now, some
6 hours later it is doing just over 1.8Mb with upload still at 760K.


Sounds a bit like spiral of death problems while you are not there.
Every time the line drops for SNR issues it will retrain to a probably
slower speed. Running a better router that supports routerstats might
shed some light on what is going on. Likewise for error stats.

FWIW I get an insane number of Interleave FEC corrections on my uplink
(but then I do upload a fair amount of stuff).

Putting the thing on a timer to cycle the power at 1am might improve
things from the perspective of daytime users.

Two questions:

Should the HH4 have retrained to the higher speed without need for power
cycle intervention, should I try to get himself to use a better router, or
is this a BTOR issue? All lines incidentally are through BT Business.


Yes but rather slowly for modest speed improvements (and any glitches
will cause an immediate loss of sync speed). What features is the
exchange capable of - I'm guessing it is ADSL Max enabled?

The overhead carries four pairs all of which are active and carry their own
broadband. BT dslchecker indicates two lines (those used for the campers
and
the domestic B/B) should be able to do 1-3Mb, the third line (used for the
farm business) should be able to do 2.5-3.5Mb, and the fourth line (used by
his son's business) should be able to handle 2-6Mb - and indeed this seems
to be the case, today the latter line was doing 5.86Mb. It baffles me that
four lines all running the same route and in the same cable (there are no
streetcabs on this exchange) can have such speed variation. They are all


It may well depend on the routes they take and the state of connections.
It puzzles me a bit too that you could have three speeds quite so
different at the same geographic location.

direct exchange lines (fibre is not available on this exchange and there is
no LLU) and have a single U/G and O/H cable feed. About six houses in a
hamlet that also use the same feed (split at a* pole-top DP) I am told also
suffer from slow speeds. For the record I have done quiet line tests on the
campers line and on the high-speed (!) line: the campers line is (a bit)
lower audio level than the other and has noticeably more hiss on it but
neither has any crackling and both ring without problem.

Anyone any suggestions on either or both questions?


Low signal and more hiss doesn't sound ideal. Can you measure the
properties of each line with a modem capable of real diagnostics?

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #10  
Old February 21st 18, 09:46 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 379
Default BT HH4 speed issue

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
Anyone any suggestions on either or both questions?

Woody


1. Get a HH6 or Draytek 2960 (better).
2. Ring the number the router is on and let it ring out for a couple of
minutes.


Does a burst of ringing current (let the phone ring for a couple of minutes)
really tend to improve bad joints in the overhead/underground wire-pair,
causing better broadband stats and sync speed - or is this apocryphal?

 




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