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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Changing a router



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 9th 18, 05:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 656
Default Changing a router


"Martin Brown" wrote in message
news
On 09/03/2018 10:35, Graham J wrote:
Woody wrote:


I know a better router and/or a better ISP would be the answer but
he
is a business user with four circuits all with B/B and all with
BT. I
know he feels more comfortable staying with one provider that he
'knows' and for some reason seems to have faith in so I would not
dream of suggesting he move.


Draytek routers (e.g. Vigor V2830) can be programmed to reboot once
per day at a specific time.

But a 3km line should achieve about 7 Mbits/sec. Can you report the
sync speeds, SNR margin, and loop attenuation figures please? It
may be that the line takes a tortuous route and is actually nearer
5km in length. see:

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.c...ersus-distance


Mine is about 5km or 3+miles to the exchange and I get 5Mbps after
doing every trick I know to get a clean line. The median round here
is 2Mbps.

As I have said before, if he wants a reliable system, comfort with
his existing supplier should be the first thing to go. He should
approach Zen Internet to migrate all four lines to them for rental,
calls and broadband; then go back to BT and challenge them to fix
his line or he will take all his business elsewhere. You could
provide further encouragement by explaining that you will not
support him unless he makes this migration.


He may well not need all four lines if a couple of them were working
properly at a sensible sync rate. He should ask if the upload speed
could be traded to get a better download speed too.


He has four different lines for four different purposes.
Line 1 is B/B only for wi-fi for the small camp site he runs - this is
the line I am concerned with.
Line 2 is his business line which has B/B and speech.
Line 3 is his domestic line with B/B and speech
Line 4 is his son's business line used for B/B only.

Lines 1 and 3 are rated by BT to have a range of 1-4Mb with an
expectancy of 2Mb - both get about 1.6Mb and line 3 speech is
frighteningly but intermittently noisy.
Line 2 is rated a 1.5-2.5Mb and an expectancy of 2Mb which it only
just makes. Audio is good.
Line 4 is B/B only rated 2-6Mb and does a steady 5.8Mb.
Line 1-3 all have an upload around 760-800Kb solid.

Line data I found shows it to run as a single U/G cable from the
exchange to a pole DP (one of those black giant dildoes) then overhead
to a pole-top DP where it also feeds a local hamlet where it is known
users there also have speed problems. The final length is all O/H with
only one junction that I can see before it gets to the final pole-top
DP at the farm.
Overall line length is shown as 2908m.
SamKnows shows there to be no fibre at this exchange and no LLU, only
ADSL and ADSL Max. Fibre is shown as available in some areas but - if
there is any in the village where the exchange lives - it is coming by
FTTC to cabinets surrounding one side of the village that are fed from
the parent exchange. My friend is on the other side of the village.

The supplied router for all four lines is a BTHH4a and there are no
statistics available on board that I can find.

I have covered all these issues in earlier posts, I just want to know
if using a BBHH5a will be beneficial? I have had comms with Draytek
who say that once settled at what it thinks is the maximum speed
their router should retain that speed (although they do not indicate
if it with retrain up which is what I asked) and that all of their
current models have timed reset built in. They suggest a 2832 router
although from what I can see the 2830 does essentially the same as far
as the need here is concerned and I can probably get one of those on
fleabay for around 30.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #12  
Old March 9th 18, 08:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 352
Default Changing a router

"Woody" wrote in message
news
exchange to a pole DP (one of those black giant dildoes)


Ha ha ha! I will never be able to look at one of those things again now
without thinking of your brilliant description of them :-)

The supplied router for all four lines is a BTHH4a and there are no
statistics available on board that I can find.


I wonder if it might be worth borrowing a router that does show line stats
(eg Netgear, DLink, TP-Link) to see what the signal strength is on each of
the lines that has BB. You don't even need to configure it with the username
and password: a router doesn't need to have logged on and established a WAN
connection to be able to show noise margin, attenuation and sync speed. I
keep a spare Netgear for when I visit clients who have poor BB and I need to
check line stats.

Once you have line stats, you can see if there's anything you can so to
improve them - though you said that the router is in the master socket and
there's no extension wiring, so you're as good as you can get without help
from BT OR.

If you can manage to borrow the router for long enough and can set up the
username/password (and I think BT Internet don't validate username/password
so any non-blank values will suffice) then you can monitor the stats over a
period of time and see if they get worse as the sync and/or throughput
speeds drop. And make a not of weather (rain, wind) that happen to coincide.

  #13  
Old March 9th 18, 08:24 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andrew[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Changing a router

On 09/03/2018 11:51, Martin Brown wrote:
On 09/03/2018 10:43, Woody wrote:

Another line that does have a phone on it is not used for speech as it
is so noisy. When I see him I'll push that he has a real go at BT on
the basis of an unusable speech line and get the other three lines
(one of which comfortably does 5.8Mb) checked at each junction en
route. However getting BT let alone OR to recognise that each circuit
in a four-pair O/H cable has similar problems I fear may not be so
easy. I have suggested he get his local MP involved.


My suggestion would be for him to make that his main complaint even if
it is for a voice line he never uses. In the process of checking that
line for faults the engineer will inevitably end up checking the joints
on the other lines into the property.

Tell him tea & biscuits and a quiet word with the engineer who turns up
about the slow unreliable internet with disconnects ought to do it.
If BT were any good they would have solved it by now.

The wet weather connection suggests to me somewhere there is a black
policemans helmet junction with water inside it. There was one* in front
of my house. When they dug it up and shook it sounded like maracas!

If a quiet line test (17070) is noisy, then dial 150 and report
it as a telephone fault, but do NOT mention broadband, else
you will be shunted off to India.

The BT mods on the BT broadband forum say you should phone the
number occasionally if supplied overhead on poles, because the
ringing pulse can clear deteriorating joints. it's a useful
forum to raise problems like this, because the BT experts who
read the postings can bypass the normal channels.
  #14  
Old March 9th 18, 09:20 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 656
Default Changing a router


"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Woody" wrote in message
news
exchange to a pole DP (one of those black giant dildoes)


Ha ha ha! I will never be able to look at one of those things again
now without thinking of your brilliant description of them :-)

The supplied router for all four lines is a BTHH4a and there are no
statistics available on board that I can find.


I wonder if it might be worth borrowing a router that does show line
stats (eg Netgear, DLink, TP-Link) to see what the signal strength
is on each of the lines that has BB. You don't even need to
configure it with the username and password: a router doesn't need
to have logged on and established a WAN connection to be able to
show noise margin, attenuation and sync speed. I keep a spare
Netgear for when I visit clients who have poor BB and I need to
check line stats.

Once you have line stats, you can see if there's anything you can so
to improve them - though you said that the router is in the master
socket and there's no extension wiring, so you're as good as you can
get without help from BT OR.

If you can manage to borrow the router for long enough and can set
up the username/password (and I think BT Internet don't validate
username/password so any non-blank values will suffice) then you can
monitor the stats over a period of time and see if they get worse as
the sync and/or throughput speeds drop. And make a not of weather
(rain, wind) that happen to coincide.


I have a Netgear DGND3700V2 which I believe will fit the bill. I'll
get the laptop out this weekend and see if I can find the statistics
page, or do I need to run software on the laptop? I found RouterStats
Lite but couldn't get it to run although it is supposed to work with
the 3700.

I do know that BT validate by CLI so username and password are not
required.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #15  
Old March 9th 18, 10:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 352
Default Changing a router

"Woody" wrote in message
news
I have a Netgear DGND3700V2 which I believe will fit the bill. I'll get
the laptop out this weekend and see if I can find the statistics page, or
do I need to run software on the laptop? I found RouterStats Lite but
couldn't get it to run although it is supposed to work with the 3700.


I'm doing this from memory but I think it's something like this:

- use an Ethernet cable - saves having to work out the router's wifi network
name and key

- browse to the router's config page which I think defaults to 192.168.1.1
for Netgear (*)

- log in at the prompt: admin / password by default unless you've changed
the admin password to something other than "password" (which I hope you
have!)

- I think by default you get a status page with a link to line stats. It's
one of those things that I do automatically but I'd have to get the router
out and connect to it to check the exact instructions.

It gives you sync speed, attenuation and noise margin for upstream and
downstream.

You don't need any special software on the laptop. There are various
packages (routerstats is one) which can log the details periodically, but
I'm not sure whether it works with Netgear - if it's supposed to work, I
never managed to get it to work...


When you're checking, also try changing the filter and the cable between the
filter and router - very occasionally that can affect the attenuation or
noise margin. Also, if there's a phone plugged into the filter (which there
isn't in your case) try unplugging it.

It's probably a good idea to reboot the router (power off/on) after making a
change to the cabling etc - sometimes I find that a router's line stats page
doesn't update when the cabling is changed and needs to be forced to re-read
the state.



(*) For any router, if you don't know the router's address, open up a CMD
prompt and run "ipconfig". The router's address is listed as "default
gateway". This assumes you already have an Ethernet or wifi connection to
the router.

  #16  
Old March 10th 18, 07:34 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 656
Default Changing a router

I got the laptop out last night, downloaded RouterStatsLite and
connected up to the Netgear 3700. Bingo it worked straight off.

I also downloaded RouterStatsHub5 which works with a BTHH5a of which I
just happen to have one here, and that too worked without problem.

Obviously being a cable user I have no ADSL available to me to do real
time tests but the graphs on both did plot the downstream as zero
which I would expect so I am hopeful that it will work on site. A
friend down the road who is an ADSL user has just gone away for a
couple of weeks but I think they come back a few days before we go
away whence I will see our farmer friend so I may have chance to check
it live before we go.



--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #17  
Old March 10th 18, 10:33 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 495
Default Changing a router

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 20:24:01 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

If a quiet line test (17070) is noisy, then dial 150 and report
it as a telephone fault, but do NOT mention broadband, else
you will be shunted off to India.


Or get your internet service and phone service from Zen, and in the
event of a fault with either of them just tell Zen. They'll sort it.

They're not the cheapest, but reliability has a value, has it not?

Rod.
  #18  
Old March 10th 18, 10:56 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 661
Default Changing a router

Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 20:24:01 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

If a quiet line test (17070) is noisy, then dial 150 and report
it as a telephone fault, but do NOT mention broadband, else
you will be shunted off to India.


Or get your internet service and phone service from Zen, and in the
event of a fault with either of them just tell Zen. They'll sort it.

They're not the cheapest, but reliability has a value, has it not?



I've told him that twice already, to no effect!

--
Graham J


  #19  
Old March 10th 18, 01:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 656
Default Changing a router


"Graham J" wrote in message
news
Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 20:24:01 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

If a quiet line test (17070) is noisy, then dial 150 and report
it as a telephone fault, but do NOT mention broadband, else
you will be shunted off to India.


Or get your internet service and phone service from Zen, and in the
event of a fault with either of them just tell Zen. They'll sort
it.

They're not the cheapest, but reliability has a value, has it not?



I've told him that twice already, to no effect!

--



With respect Graham, you obviously don't deal with out-in-the-sticks
farmers very often. They do not like change - period.



--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #20  
Old March 10th 18, 02:51 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 352
Default Changing a router

"Woody" wrote in message
news
Or get your internet service and phone service from Zen, and in the
event of a fault with either of them just tell Zen. They'll sort it.

They're not the cheapest, but reliability has a value, has it not?



I've told him that twice already, to no effect!


With respect Graham, you obviously don't deal with out-in-the-sticks
farmers very often. They do not like change - period.


One of the big disincentives to changing ISP is the fact that you also lose
access to the email address(es) that go with it, and have to notify everyone
of a new email address and to change all the login IDs for web sites where
you've used an old address.

I use my present ISP's addresses for day to day communications, but until
recently I used a virgin.net address from the days when I had dial-up -
Virgin never cancelled it so I just kept using it as a throwaway address and
website login ID. That was fine until the day last year when Virgin suddenly
pulled the plug without any advance warning. If I'd had warning I'd have
gone round to all the sites and done a "Change login ID" which typically
requires sending an email to the *old* address. In most cases I managed to
change to a gmail address that I hastily created, but I was utterly stuffed
with Dropbox and had to ditch that account (leaving all the files on their
server) and create a brand new one.

Moral of the story: never use an ISP-specific email address for website
login ID :-)

My present ISP also has the problem that they can't "park" a broadband
account and then resurrect it in the future. My wife created an account (and
therefore lots of email addresses) before we got married. We've now sold our
house and had to move into temporary accommodation which already has an
internet connection (otherwise we'd just have migrated my wife's). We can
pay a nominal amount to keep the email accounts live, but they say that they
is no way of bringing that account back to life when we eventually buy a new
house - we'd have to create a new account and still carry on paying for the
old account's addresses if we still want access to them. Grrrr.

So often, there is more at stake than just the broadband connection itself.

 




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