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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Changing a router



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 10th 18, 03:46 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Dick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 97
Default Changing a router

On 09-Mar-18 9:20 PM, Woody wrote:
"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Woody" wrote in message
news
exchange to a pole DP (one of those black giant dildoes)


Ha ha ha! I will never be able to look at one of those things again
now without thinking of your brilliant description of them :-)

The supplied router for all four lines is a BTHH4a and there are no
statistics available on board that I can find.


I wonder if it might be worth borrowing a router that does show line
stats (eg Netgear, DLink, TP-Link) to see what the signal strength
is on each of the lines that has BB. You don't even need to
configure it with the username and password: a router doesn't need
to have logged on and established a WAN connection to be able to
show noise margin, attenuation and sync speed. I keep a spare
Netgear for when I visit clients who have poor BB and I need to
check line stats.

Once you have line stats, you can see if there's anything you can so
to improve them - though you said that the router is in the master
socket and there's no extension wiring, so you're as good as you can
get without help from BT OR.

If you can manage to borrow the router for long enough and can set
up the username/password (and I think BT Internet don't validate
username/password so any non-blank values will suffice) then you can
monitor the stats over a period of time and see if they get worse as
the sync and/or throughput speeds drop. And make a not of weather
(rain, wind) that happen to coincide.


I have a Netgear DGND3700V2 which I believe will fit the bill. I'll
get the laptop out this weekend and see if I can find the statistics
page, or do I need to run software on the laptop? I found RouterStats
Lite but couldn't get it to run although it is supposed to work with
the 3700.

I do know that BT validate by CLI so username and password are not
required.


Sigh!! Yes they validate by CLI but you still need to enter
as the user name. Some routers require a
password to be entered even if the ISP doesn't, in this case just enter BT.
  #22  
Old March 10th 18, 03:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Dick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 97
Default Changing a router

On 09-Mar-18 8:01 PM, NY wrote:
"Woody" wrote in message
news
If you can manage to borrow the router for long enough and can set up
the username/password (and I think BT Internet don't validate
username/password so any non-blank values will suffice)


Any non-blank values will not suffice. It needs to be the generic
as user name (in fact anything before the
@btbroadband.com will suffice), anything will suffice for password.

  #23  
Old March 10th 18, 05:05 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 139
Default Changing a router

NY wrote:
"Woody" wrote in message
news
Or get your internet service and phone service from Zen, and in the
event of a fault with either of them just tell Zen. They'll sort it.

They're not the cheapest, but reliability has a value, has it not?


I've told him that twice already, to no effect!


With respect Graham, you obviously don't deal with out-in-the-sticks
farmers very often. They do not like change - period.


One of the big disincentives to changing ISP is the fact that you also lose
access to the email address(es) that go with it, and have to notify everyone
of a new email address and to change all the login IDs for web sites where
you've used an old address.

Do most people really use the E-Mail address that comes with their ISP?

Just about everyone I send E-Mails to has a Google mail address or an
msn one or a hotmail one. Or the more enlightened ones have their own
domain and use that.

--
Chris Green

  #24  
Old March 10th 18, 05:57 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 339
Default Changing a router

"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
NY wrote:
"Woody" wrote in message
news
Or get your internet service and phone service from Zen, and in the
event of a fault with either of them just tell Zen. They'll sort it.

They're not the cheapest, but reliability has a value, has it not?


I've told him that twice already, to no effect!

With respect Graham, you obviously don't deal with out-in-the-sticks
farmers very often. They do not like change - period.


One of the big disincentives to changing ISP is the fact that you also
lose
access to the email address(es) that go with it, and have to notify
everyone
of a new email address and to change all the login IDs for web sites
where
you've used an old address.

Do most people really use the E-Mail address that comes with their ISP?

Just about everyone I send E-Mails to has a Google mail address or an
msn one or a hotmail one. Or the more enlightened ones have their own
domain and use that.


Most lay people do use their ISP email address. They wouldn't have a clue
how to set up a gmail account, never mind their own domain with rented email
accounts. Even though I know the benefits of having an email address that is
not ISP-dependent, and know how to do it, it took the no-warning cessation
of my Virgin address to jolt me into setting up a gmail account and some
rented webspace and email accounts. That was down to sheer laziness on my
part :-(

If you get "free" email included with your broadband subscription, there's
no incentive to set up another address, especially if it's one you have to
pay extra for - until you have to change ISP and wish you'd already got your
friends etc using a portable gmail account.

I have been with my ISP for about 15 years. They are still good, though
their support is less head-and-shoulders ahead of the big names like BT,
TalkTalk, Sky etc than it used to be; at least their support staff speaks
English as a first language. One thing that keeps me loyal is a sizable
loyalty discount for the number of people I've introduced.

  #25  
Old March 10th 18, 06:16 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 639
Default Changing a router


"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Woody" wrote in message
news
Or get your internet service and phone service from Zen, and in
the
event of a fault with either of them just tell Zen. They'll sort
it.

They're not the cheapest, but reliability has a value, has it
not?


I've told him that twice already, to no effect!


With respect Graham, you obviously don't deal with
out-in-the-sticks farmers very often. They do not like change -
period.


One of the big disincentives to changing ISP is the fact that you
also lose access to the email address(es) that go with it, and have
to notify everyone of a new email address and to change all the
login IDs for web sites where you've used an old address.

I use my present ISP's addresses for day to day communications, but
until recently I used a virgin.net address from the days when I had
dial-up - Virgin never cancelled it so I just kept using it as a
throwaway address and website login ID. That was fine until the day
last year when Virgin suddenly pulled the plug without any advance
warning. If I'd had warning I'd have gone round to all the sites and
done a "Change login ID" which typically requires sending an email
to the *old* address. In most cases I managed to change to a gmail
address that I hastily created, but I was utterly stuffed with
Dropbox and had to ditch that account (leaving all the files on
their server) and create a brand new one.

Moral of the story: never use an ISP-specific email address for
website login ID :-)

My present ISP also has the problem that they can't "park" a
broadband account and then resurrect it in the future. My wife
created an account (and therefore lots of email addresses) before we
got married. We've now sold our house and had to move into temporary
accommodation which already has an internet connection (otherwise
we'd just have migrated my wife's). We can pay a nominal amount to
keep the email accounts live, but they say that they is no way of
bringing that account back to life when we eventually buy a new
house - we'd have to create a new account and still carry on paying
for the old account's addresses if we still want access to them.
Grrrr.

So often, there is more at stake than just the broadband connection
itself.


I got around that one years ago - I got a domain with free mail
forwarding. If I ever change my ISP all I need to do is amend the
delivery addresses.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #26  
Old March 10th 18, 07:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 448
Default Changing a router

On 10/03/2018 17:57, NY wrote:

Most lay people do use their ISP email address. They wouldn't have a clue
how to set up a gmail account,


I disagree. A lot of people have a gmail account, because it's ****-easy
to set up. Go to Google, and Google 'Gmail', and away you go. Of course
they don't use an email client for it, they just log on via the
webserver; at home, at work, on their phone, at their cousins........

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #27  
Old March 10th 18, 10:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 633
Default Changing a router

Woody wrote:
"Graham J" wrote in message
news
Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 20:24:01 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

If a quiet line test (17070) is noisy, then dial 150 and report
it as a telephone fault, but do NOT mention broadband, else
you will be shunted off to India.

Or get your internet service and phone service from Zen, and in the
event of a fault with either of them just tell Zen. They'll sort
it.

They're not the cheapest, but reliability has a value, has it not?



I've told him that twice already, to no effect!

--



With respect Graham, you obviously don't deal with out-in-the-sticks
farmers very often. They do not like change - period.


Then I'm quite happy not to support them. After a few months they
usually come back and apologise for not listening to my advice.

--
Graham J


  #28  
Old March 11th 18, 09:04 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default Changing a router

On 10/03/2018 13:09, Woody wrote:
"Graham J" wrote in message
news
Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 20:24:01 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

If a quiet line test (17070) is noisy, then dial 150 and report
it as a telephone fault, but do NOT mention broadband, else
you will be shunted off to India.

Or get your internet service and phone service from Zen, and in the
event of a fault with either of them just tell Zen. They'll sort
it.

They're not the cheapest, but reliability has a value, has it not?


I've told him that twice already, to no effect!

With respect Graham, you obviously don't deal with out-in-the-sticks
farmers very often. They do not like change - period.


I do but then some of the local farms their wired internet was so slow
and unreliable that they were early adopters of the microwave based
Clannet system since they could take the hit as a business expense.

There is only some much of losing a half filled in online stock movement
sheet that they can take before they look for serious alternatives. The
guy who started the alternative has done quite well from it.

Now the price has come down to a point where having the microwave
service at 20Mbps is only marginally more expensive than ADSL at 5Mbps.
The catch is that you need strict line of sight on a node to use it.

Farmers have nice high barn apexes to put their antenna on.

In answer to your previous question about a HH5 it is probably slightly
better than a HH4 (though I have no direct experience of either beyond
occassionally digging neighbours out of trouble with theirs).

TBH programming up any random router that will be supported by
routerstats and putting it on for a day or so will be far more
informative. You might even convince the guy that the change was for the
better. It is after all only at most a few connectors to make and unmake
(once you have configured it to login with the right BT passwords).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #29  
Old March 11th 18, 11:07 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 418
Default Changing a router

On Saturday, 10 March 2018 13:09:13 UTC, Woody wrote:
"Graham J" wrote in message
news
Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 20:24:01 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

If a quiet line test (17070) is noisy, then dial 150 and report
it as a telephone fault, but do NOT mention broadband, else
you will be shunted off to India.

Or get your internet service and phone service from Zen, and in the
event of a fault with either of them just tell Zen. They'll sort
it.

They're not the cheapest, but reliability has a value, has it not?



I've told him that twice already, to no effect!

--



With respect Graham, you obviously don't deal with out-in-the-sticks
farmers very often. They do not like change - period.


Indeed and they don't like trespassers or paying for owt', especially in Yorkshire.



--
Woody



  #30  
Old March 11th 18, 06:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default Changing a router

On 09/03/2018 15:12, Graham J wrote:
Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:35:19 +0000, Graham J
wrote:

Draytek routers (e.g. Vigor V2830) can be programmed to reboot once per
day at a specific time.


Wouldn't the system see that as a frequent loss of sync, indicating a
fault, and lower the data rate accordingly?

Or would it be intelligent enough to recognise it as deliberate if it
occurs at regular intervals?


I suspect the Openreach DLM (Dynamic Line Management) mechanism reduces
the sync speed when there is more noise.* At the reduced speed fewer
"bins" carry data (usually those at higher frequencies because it is
these that are more susceptible to noise especially on a long line) so
the SNR margin returns to something nearer 6dB.


What usually happens to me when the line is in the process of going bad
is that sync rate drops a bit and SNR margin rises in steps of 3dB
initially to 9dB and 1Mbps less throughput. It starts to get annoying at
12dB and is all but unusable by the time it reaches 18dB.

That is spiral of death territory where line drops are so frequent that
sync speed tanks out at 256k if it ever syncs at all. Tree stripping
insulation off the phone line causes this sort of problem.

However a sudden total loss of sync doesn't affect the DLM in this way.
Some routers even send a "disconnecting now" signal before rebooting so
the DLM understands what is going on.


I reckon an exchange will probably be OK with a line drop from power cut
provided you don't do it too often.

Isn't there a reset button on a HHub? You may also be able to reboot it
under software control from the web interface. That is how I reboot mine
when things go awry. That way the router can politely tell the exchange
that it is going to drop the line and restart itself.

Noise margin SNR displays as 0dB and error seconds count up in real time
- it ought to recognise this as Norweigian blue parrot territory but
annoyingly it doesn't and it requires a severe kick in the teeth to get
it going again. Hazards of rural life we are connected to the exchange
using ancient copper and wet string and on the wrong side of the beck.

(At least there is no aluminium in my signal path - the next village
along is not so lucky some of them only get 256kbps max)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 




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