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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

'More than half' of UK households face broadband problems



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 2nd 18, 07:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 375
Default 'More than half' of UK households face broadband problems

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43617492

"One in five British households have experienced slow broadband speeds
in the last year, according to Which.

A similar number have had connection dropouts and router problems, the
consumer rights group added.

It polled more than 1,900 customers across 12 providers, more than half
of whom reported having problems with their broadband service or price.

Which said providers had "a long way to go" to meet customer expectations.

The survey looked at the biggest providers, including BT, Sky, TalkTalk,
Virgin Media and Zen Internet. Together they serve about 90% of UK
broadband customers."
  #2  
Old April 2nd 18, 08:05 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 686
Default 'More than half' of UK households face broadband problems


"Java Jive" wrote in message
news
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43617492

"One in five British households have experienced slow broadband
speeds in the last year, according to Which.

A similar number have had connection dropouts and router problems,
the consumer rights group added.

It polled more than 1,900 customers across 12 providers, more than
half of whom reported having problems with their broadband service
or price.

Which said providers had "a long way to go" to meet customer
expectations.

The survey looked at the biggest providers, including BT, Sky,
TalkTalk, Virgin Media and Zen Internet. Together they serve about
90% of UK broadband customers."



The interesting point there was that VM had the highest level of
complaints, and as most of their feed is on cable which is inherently
reliable and fast, the complaints were mainly around cost.

I doubt many of the others were about cost maybe with the exception of
Zen who charge more but do give exceptional service.



--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #3  
Old April 2nd 18, 11:39 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 433
Default 'More than half' of UK households face broadband problems

"Woody" wrote in message
news

"Java Jive" wrote in message
news
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43617492

"One in five British households have experienced slow broadband speeds in
the last year, according to Which.

A similar number have had connection dropouts and router problems, the
consumer rights group added.

It polled more than 1,900 customers across 12 providers, more than half
of whom reported having problems with their broadband service or price.

Which said providers had "a long way to go" to meet customer
expectations.

The survey looked at the biggest providers, including BT, Sky, TalkTalk,
Virgin Media and Zen Internet. Together they serve about 90% of UK
broadband customers."



The interesting point there was that VM had the highest level of
complaints, and as most of their feed is on cable which is inherently
reliable and fast, the complaints were mainly around cost.

I doubt many of the others were about cost maybe with the exception of Zen
who charge more but do give exceptional service.


Is there any evidence that different ISPs that use the same communication
method (eg BT lines, which are not LLU) are different for a given line. Is
contention per line or per ISP: if at any instant a given line was connected
via ISP1 would it get different speed compared to if at that same instant it
was connected via ISP2? Are you contending with the other nearby users of
the same ISP or with all the users of BT lines in your area, irrespective of
ISP?

My experience of slow ADSL is that it is limited by the sync speed that
depends on your line length, and doesn't deteriorate further at different
times of day. indeed contention seems to be more noticeable on lines with a
faster sync speed because there is then greater variation between best and
worst, whereas for slow lines, the line is consistently slow and the
rate-limiting step is the sync speed rather than the data throughput speed.

I was surprised to find that one housing estate in a medium-size town
(everyone who connects by a given cabinet) cannot get FTTC because that
cabinet has not been upgraded, although people a few streets away on a
different cabinet to the same exchange can get it. And BT's official report
for the first cabinet is "investigating ways of bringing FTTC to this
address, with no plans or forecast as to when/if this will happen" (I've
paraphrased a little). You'd think in a town, all the cabinets of an
exchnage that has been enabled for FTTC would appear on the same plan, with
approximate dates when each cabinet will be upgraded. The two cases are both
real cabinets: one is not a pseudo cabinet near the exchange to provide FTTC
for lines which go directly to the exchange rather than by a cabinet.

The problem with FTTC comes with a long ribbon development of isolated
houses along a road. I had to investigate exceptionally slow ADSL to a house
on such a road, and everyone had been told that wherever BT put an FTTC
cabinet, most of the houses would be too far away from it to make VDSL work,
so BT's answer was not to install FTTC at all :-(

  #4  
Old April 3rd 18, 01:40 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
7[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 514
Default 'More than half' of UK households face broadband problems

Java Jive wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43617492

"One in five British households have experienced slow broadband speeds
in the last year, according to Which.

A similar number have had connection dropouts and router problems, the
consumer rights group added.

It polled more than 1,900 customers across 12 providers, more than half
of whom reported having problems with their broadband service or price.

Which said providers had "a long way to go" to meet customer expectations.

The survey looked at the biggest providers, including BT, Sky, TalkTalk,
Virgin Media and Zen Internet. Together they serve about 90% of UK
broadband customers."



I loose connectivity several times a day now with "broadband Internet"

Not likely to happen with 20x cheaper and 20x faster to roll out
"symmetric gigabit fiber Internet".

Two tower blocks some 300 yards away got it. But I can't have it
because I don't own a tower block

Waat a fscking mess!!

  #5  
Old April 3rd 18, 08:33 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 686
Default 'More than half' of UK households face broadband problems


"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Woody" wrote in message
news

"Java Jive" wrote in message
news
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43617492

"One in five British households have experienced slow broadband
speeds in
the last year, according to Which.

A similar number have had connection dropouts and router problems,
the
consumer rights group added.

It polled more than 1,900 customers across 12 providers, more than
half
of whom reported having problems with their broadband service or
price.

Which said providers had "a long way to go" to meet customer
expectations.

The survey looked at the biggest providers, including BT, Sky,
TalkTalk,
Virgin Media and Zen Internet. Together they serve about 90% of UK
broadband customers."



The interesting point there was that VM had the highest level of
complaints, and as most of their feed is on cable which is
inherently
reliable and fast, the complaints were mainly around cost.

I doubt many of the others were about cost maybe with the exception
of Zen
who charge more but do give exceptional service.


Is there any evidence that different ISPs that use the same
communication
method (eg BT lines, which are not LLU) are different for a given
line. Is
contention per line or per ISP: if at any instant a given line was
connected
via ISP1 would it get different speed compared to if at that same
instant it
was connected via ISP2? Are you contending with the other nearby
users of
the same ISP or with all the users of BT lines in your area,
irrespective of
ISP?

My experience of slow ADSL is that it is limited by the sync speed
that depends on your line length, and doesn't deteriorate further at
different times of day. indeed contention seems to be more
noticeable on lines with a faster sync speed because there is then
greater variation between best and worst, whereas for slow lines,
the line is consistently slow and the rate-limiting step is the sync
speed rather than the data throughput speed.

I was surprised to find that one housing estate in a medium-size
town
(everyone who connects by a given cabinet) cannot get FTTC because
that
cabinet has not been upgraded, although people a few streets away on
a
different cabinet to the same exchange can get it. And BT's official
report
for the first cabinet is "investigating ways of bringing FTTC to
this
address, with no plans or forecast as to when/if this will happen"
(I've
paraphrased a little). You'd think in a town, all the cabinets of an
exchnage that has been enabled for FTTC would appear on the same
plan, with
approximate dates when each cabinet will be upgraded. The two cases
are both
real cabinets: one is not a pseudo cabinet near the exchange to
provide FTTC
for lines which go directly to the exchange rather than by a
cabinet.

The problem with FTTC comes with a long ribbon development of
isolated
houses along a road. I had to investigate exceptionally slow ADSL to
a house
on such a road, and everyone had been told that wherever BT put an
FTTC
cabinet, most of the houses would be too far away from it to make
VDSL work,
so BT's answer was not to install FTTC at all :-(



Surely whether a cab is upgraded to FTTC or not depends to some extent
on the difficulty of getting fibre there but I would suggest more
likely what BT estimates the return on the investment to be. If the
cab is in an area that is mainly older people who don't take B/B or
the odd old folks home, they may see the cost of the installation v.
the potential profit as making the exercise not viable?


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #6  
Old April 3rd 18, 08:52 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 315
Default 'More than half' of UK households face broadband problems

Woody wrote:

Surely whether a cab is upgraded to FTTC or not depends to some extent
on the difficulty of getting fibre there but I would suggest more
likely what BT estimates the return on the investment to be.


I think judged that badly wrong here, like many areas they kept delaying
and delaying the roll-out to this "large village" after the exchange was
ready.

Take-up exceeded what they'd planned for, they've had to double the
number of VDSL cabinets per PSTN cabinet, even though virgin have fibred
up the place too (which seems to be getting reasonable take-up judging
by sightings of vans, presumably at the expense of sky)

If the cab is in an area that is mainly older people who don't take
B/B

When the whole village gets flaky under 2Mbit ADSL, even the fogies
upgrade to VDSL, if just for the reliability rather than the speed, I
used to get lots of "friend of a friend" calls to pop round and sort-out
someone's filters/router/wiring and they've all stopped since.

  #7  
Old April 3rd 18, 09:16 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 129
Default 'More than half' of UK households face broadband problems

On 02/04/2018 22:39, NY wrote:
"Woody" wrote in message
news

"Java Jive" wrote in message
news
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43617492

"One in five British households have experienced slow broadband
speeds in
the last year, according to Which.

A similar number have had connection dropouts and router problems, the
consumer rights group added.

It polled more than 1,900 customers across 12 providers, more than half
of whom reported having problems with their broadband service or price.


It is an interesting "or" since most they interviewed were whinging
about price.

The interesting point there was that VM had the highest level of
complaints, and as most of their feed is on cable which is inherently
reliable and fast, the complaints were mainly around cost.

I doubt many of the others were about cost maybe with the exception of
Zen
who charge more but do give exceptional service.


Is there any evidence that different ISPs that use the same communication
method (eg BT lines, which are not LLU) are different for a given line. Is


I wouldn't expect so (apart from possibly TalkTalk who excel at
completely cocking things up if my friends experience is typical).

contention per line or per ISP: if at any instant a given line was
connected
via ISP1 would it get different speed compared to if at that same
instant it
was connected via ISP2? Are you contending with the other nearby users of
the same ISP or with all the users of BT lines in your area,
irrespective of
ISP?


That only becomes a problem when some cabinets get FTTC so that the
lucky few can hammer the limited haulback to the rural exchange and then
you do see a slowdown when kids get home from school.

My experience of slow ADSL is that it is limited by the sync speed that
depends on your line length, and doesn't deteriorate further at
different times of day. indeed contention seems to be more noticeable on
lines with a faster sync speed because there is then greater variation
between best and worst, whereas for slow lines, the line is consistently
slow and the rate-limiting step is the sync speed rather than the data
throughput speed.


Unless you are competing against lots of people on FTTC lines soaking up
most of the backhaul capacity streaming 4k TV and the like.

I was surprised to find that one housing estate in a medium-size town
(everyone who connects by a given cabinet) cannot get FTTC because that
cabinet has not been upgraded, although people a few streets away on a
different cabinet to the same exchange can get it. And BT's official report
for the first cabinet is "investigating ways of bringing FTTC to this
address, with no plans or forecast as to when/if this will happen"


It may mean that no power is available or the geography makes it
uneconomic to deploy for some reason.

The problem with FTTC comes with a long ribbon development of isolated
houses along a road. I had to investigate exceptionally slow ADSL to a
house
on such a road, and everyone had been told that wherever BT put an FTTC
cabinet, most of the houses would be too far away from it to make VDSL
work,
so BT's answer was not to install FTTC at all :-(


They may well have a point. FTTRN trails have also failed dismally -
they have stopped even reporting on it these days.

Best bet for ribbon developments is some kind of peer to peer microwave
link off a central hub like we have in (parts of) North Yorkshire. Also
worth looking at all you can eat data on 4G mobile networks and a Mifi
with external antenna capability.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #8  
Old April 3rd 18, 09:26 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 315
Default 'More than half' of UK households face broadband problems

Martin Brown wrote:

I wouldn't expect so (apart from possibly TalkTalk who excel at
completely cocking things up if my friends experience is typical).


in my experience, TalkTalk Business are very good at cocking things up
on the day of installation, then perfectly fine afterwards ...
  #9  
Old April 3rd 18, 01:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 549
Default 'More than half' of UK households face broadband problems

On Tuesday, 3 April 2018 07:33:56 UTC+1, Woody wrote:
"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Woody" wrote in message
news

"Java Jive" wrote in message
news http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43617492

"One in five British households have experienced slow broadband
speeds in
the last year, according to Which.

A similar number have had connection dropouts and router problems,
the
consumer rights group added.

It polled more than 1,900 customers across 12 providers, more than
half
of whom reported having problems with their broadband service or
price.

Which said providers had "a long way to go" to meet customer
expectations.

The survey looked at the biggest providers, including BT, Sky,
TalkTalk,
Virgin Media and Zen Internet. Together they serve about 90% of UK
broadband customers."


The interesting point there was that VM had the highest level of
complaints, and as most of their feed is on cable which is
inherently
reliable and fast, the complaints were mainly around cost.

I doubt many of the others were about cost maybe with the exception
of Zen
who charge more but do give exceptional service.


Is there any evidence that different ISPs that use the same
communication
method (eg BT lines, which are not LLU) are different for a given
line. Is
contention per line or per ISP: if at any instant a given line was
connected
via ISP1 would it get different speed compared to if at that same
instant it
was connected via ISP2? Are you contending with the other nearby
users of
the same ISP or with all the users of BT lines in your area,
irrespective of
ISP?

My experience of slow ADSL is that it is limited by the sync speed
that depends on your line length, and doesn't deteriorate further at
different times of day. indeed contention seems to be more
noticeable on lines with a faster sync speed because there is then
greater variation between best and worst, whereas for slow lines,
the line is consistently slow and the rate-limiting step is the sync
speed rather than the data throughput speed.

I was surprised to find that one housing estate in a medium-size
town
(everyone who connects by a given cabinet) cannot get FTTC because
that
cabinet has not been upgraded, although people a few streets away on
a
different cabinet to the same exchange can get it. And BT's official
report
for the first cabinet is "investigating ways of bringing FTTC to
this
address, with no plans or forecast as to when/if this will happen"
(I've
paraphrased a little). You'd think in a town, all the cabinets of an
exchnage that has been enabled for FTTC would appear on the same
plan, with
approximate dates when each cabinet will be upgraded. The two cases
are both
real cabinets: one is not a pseudo cabinet near the exchange to
provide FTTC
for lines which go directly to the exchange rather than by a
cabinet.

The problem with FTTC comes with a long ribbon development of
isolated
houses along a road. I had to investigate exceptionally slow ADSL to
a house
on such a road, and everyone had been told that wherever BT put an
FTTC
cabinet, most of the houses would be too far away from it to make
VDSL work,
so BT's answer was not to install FTTC at all :-(



Surely whether a cab is upgraded to FTTC or not depends to some extent
on the difficulty of getting fibre there but I would suggest more
likely what BT estimates the return on the investment to be. If the
cab is in an area that is mainly older people who don't take B/B or
the odd old folks home, they may see the cost of the installation v.
the potential profit as making the exercise not viable?


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


BT chose my area (Didsbury in Manchester) for the first commercial roll out of FTTC in 2009. It has a high proportion of older people, but is fairly affluent (for the north). In addition many of these are retired medics and academics and they DO take broadband and can pay the small premium for faster access.

It was also one of the earliest areas cabled up (by Nynex) in the 1990's.
  #10  
Old April 3rd 18, 02:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
DrTeeth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 333
Default 'More than half' of UK households face broadband problems

On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 04:38:57 -0700 (PDT), just as I was about to take a
herb, "R. Mark Clayton" disturbed my reverie
and wrote:

but is fairly affluent (for the north)


That is an understatement. Didsbury is rolling in dosh. So much so,
and I can say this as a Jew, it used to be called Yidsbury, hi hi.

The price I pay for having married a London girl is living in this
pit. I'd move back up north in a flash. Though I am a Mancunian, I
love Leeds/Yorkshire.
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter." - Winston Churchill
 




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