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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

"Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules"



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 2nd 18, 01:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
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Posts: 332
Default "Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43962878

"Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules

Advertisements for broadband speeds that breach rules set to take effect
on 23 May will be banned, the Advertising Standards Authority has said.

The ASA's new rules require providers to include a median average speed
for the service between 20:00 and 22:00.

Providers will no longer be able to advertise "speeds of up to", which
currently can be available to just 10% of their customers.

And they will have to give details of any limitations that may affect
speed."

  #2  
Old May 2nd 18, 01:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
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Posts: 374
Default "Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules"

"Java Jive" wrote in message
news
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43962878

"Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules

Advertisements for broadband speeds that breach rules set to take effect
on 23 May will be banned, the Advertising Standards Authority has said.

The ASA's new rules require providers to include a median average speed
for the service between 20:00 and 22:00.

Providers will no longer be able to advertise "speeds of up to", which
currently can be available to just 10% of their customers.

And they will have to give details of any limitations that may affect
speed."


How much of the download speed is a function of the ISP, and how much is due
to appalling quality of BT Openreach lines over which most ISPs' broadband
runs? In other words, what is the point of changing from a "slow" ISP to a
"faster" one if the rate-limiting step is that you are 5 miles from the
exchange over wire that has wet, corroded joints?

  #3  
Old May 2nd 18, 04:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris
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Posts: 504
Default "Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules"

Java Jive wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43962878

"Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules

Advertisements for broadband speeds that breach rules set to take effect
on 23 May will be banned, the Advertising Standards Authority has said.

The ASA's new rules require providers to include a median average speed
for the service between 20:00 and 22:00.


That seems very specific. Median speed of which services or sites exactly?
iplayer, Netflix or Google.com? I can imagine some particularly slow sites
might get blocked during that period or extra capacity bought.

I agree with median speeds overall,but not for such a specific time period.
Too open to gaming.

Providers will no longer be able to advertise "speeds of up to", which
currently can be available to just 10% of their customers.

And they will have to give details of any limitations that may affect
speed."


What does that mean? I realise ofcom are trying,but christ this is going to
be confusing for customers.



  #4  
Old May 2nd 18, 05:32 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
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Posts: 680
Default "Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules"

NY wrote:

[snip]


How much of the download speed is a function of the ISP, and how much is
due to appalling quality of BT Openreach lines over which most ISPs'
broadband runs? In other words, what is the point of changing from a
"slow" ISP to a "faster" one if the rate-limiting step is that you are 5
miles from the exchange over wire that has wet, corroded joints?


Very little, but Openreach can provide the ISP with line length and
quality information which will allow an estimate of speed. Also, a good
ISP will apply pressure to Openreach to repair corroded joints.

The only way one could get a guarantee of a specific speed would be with
FTTP.

-- Graham J

  #5  
Old May 2nd 18, 07:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
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Posts: 498
Default "Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules"

On Wed, 2 May 2018 13:36:12 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules

Advertisements for broadband speeds that breach rules set to take effect
on 23 May will be banned, the Advertising Standards Authority has said.

The ASA's new rules require providers to include a median average speed
for the service between 20:00 and 22:00.

Providers will no longer be able to advertise "speeds of up to", which
currently can be available to just 10% of their customers.

And they will have to give details of any limitations that may affect
speed."


How much of the download speed is a function of the ISP, and how much is due
to appalling quality of BT Openreach lines over which most ISPs' broadband
runs? In other words, what is the point of changing from a "slow" ISP to a
"faster" one if the rate-limiting step is that you are 5 miles from the
exchange over wire that has wet, corroded joints?


It won't matter what *your* speed is as long as the "median average"
is up to spec.

Rod.

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  #6  
Old May 2nd 18, 09:18 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
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Posts: 670
Default "Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules"


"Graham J" wrote in message
news
NY wrote:

[snip]


How much of the download speed is a function of the ISP, and how
much is
due to appalling quality of BT Openreach lines over which most
ISPs'
broadband runs? In other words, what is the point of changing from
a
"slow" ISP to a "faster" one if the rate-limiting step is that you
are 5
miles from the exchange over wire that has wet, corroded joints?


Very little, but Openreach can provide the ISP with line length and
quality information which will allow an estimate of speed. Also, a
good ISP will apply pressure to Openreach to repair corroded joints.

The only way one could get a guarantee of a specific speed would be
with FTTP.


.... or cable.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #7  
Old May 3rd 18, 09:58 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MB[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default "Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules"

On 02/05/2018 13:36, NY wrote:
How much of the download speed is a function of the ISP, and how much is
due to appalling quality of BT Openreach lines over which most ISPs'
broadband runs? In other words, what is the point of changing from a
"slow" ISP to a "faster" one if the rate-limiting step is that you are 5
miles from the exchange over wire that has wet, corroded joints?


I would think most if the responsibility of the ISP.

I use BT Internet and have no problem with speed or service.

I would think there is no opportunity for an ISP to cuts costs by asking
BT for an unreliable or poor quality line but they will possibly be able
to choose a lower response time to faults. The big savings will be once
it connects to their own equipment, they will be able to use cheaper
equipment, lower capacity circuits in their own network and fiddle with
contention settings.

  #8  
Old May 3rd 18, 10:25 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 374
Default "Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules"

"MB" wrote in message news
On 02/05/2018 13:36, NY wrote:
How much of the download speed is a function of the ISP, and how much is
due to appalling quality of BT Openreach lines over which most ISPs'
broadband runs? In other words, what is the point of changing from a
"slow" ISP to a "faster" one if the rate-limiting step is that you are 5
miles from the exchange over wire that has wet, corroded joints?


I would think most if the responsibility of the ISP.

I use BT Internet and have no problem with speed or service.

I would think there is no opportunity for an ISP to cuts costs by asking
BT for an unreliable or poor quality line but they will possibly be able
to choose a lower response time to faults. The big savings will be once
it connects to their own equipment, they will be able to use cheaper
equipment, lower capacity circuits in their own network and fiddle with
contention settings.


The temporary house where we are living at the moment (between selling our
house and buying another) is probably about 5 miles from the exchange in a
tiny hamlet of two farms and ten houses. The broadband is very slow: it
varies a little at different times of day, but at best it's about 1.8 Mbps D
/ 0.2 U. The BT line checker gives "1-2 Mbps" as the estimated speed. The
router syncs at around 2 / 0.4 Mbps.

I don't think any of that can be attributed to the ISP. The miracle is that
we get broadband at all (*). I understand that our speed is typical of the
whole village, so it's not just a bad line to our house.

It's a bit different going from 18/6 FTTC at our previous house down to
1.8/0.2 :-(


If the line allowed a higher sync speed, then other factors (in the ISP's
control) may become the rate-limiting step, but for people like us, it's the
line itself that sets the pace, and so it's unfair for the ISP to be blamed
in our situation.

New lines to the village may well improve things, but I can't imagine that
(or an FTTC green cabinet) happening any time this millennium. When a phone
line was first installed at the house (about 30 years ago) most of the
village was still fed from a small number of lines which were multiplexed
using DACS modulators. Until that was removed about 10 years ago, broadband
was out of the question. I presume when the DACSes were removed, additional
lines were installed from the nearest cabinet to compensate for not being
able to frequency-multiplex any more.


(*) At lest we get uninterrupted broadband at a usable speed. I've been to
houses even further from their exchange where the router keeps losing sync,
possibly because it tries to sync at an unsustainable speed instead of
dropping back to a slower but 100% reliable speed. To put things into
context, when broadband was first introduced at my previous house (which was
about 100 yards from the exchange) ISPs were offering various speed tariffs:
0.5 U/D was cheap and you had to pay a premium for 2 U / 0.5 D. How times
have changed.

  #9  
Old May 3rd 18, 10:33 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 680
Default "Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules"

MB wrote:
On 02/05/2018 13:36, NY wrote:
How much of the download speed is a function of the ISP, and how much
is due to appalling quality of BT Openreach lines over which most
ISPs' broadband runs? In other words, what is the point of changing
from a "slow" ISP to a "faster" one if the rate-limiting step is that
you are 5 miles from the exchange over wire that has wet, corroded
joints?


I would think most if the responsibility of the ISP.

I use BT Internet and have no problem with speed or service.

I would think there is no opportunity for an ISP to cuts costs by asking
BT for an unreliable or poor quality line but they will possibly be able
to choose a lower response time to faults. The big savings will be once
it connects to their own equipment, they will be able to use cheaper
equipment, lower capacity circuits in their own network and fiddle with
contention settings.


The length and quality of the phone line is the limiting factor. If you
live too far away from the exchange there is nothing even the best ISP
can do to improve your speeds. However they may be able to force
Openreach to improve reliability.

I've had clients some 5 miles distant from an exchange who achieve 1
Mbits/sec with almost 100% reliability thanks to diligent work by the
ISP to get Openreach to remake every joint along the cable and replace
any aluminium sections with copper. Probably their only disruptions are
caused by thunderstorms.


--
Graham J


  #10  
Old May 3rd 18, 12:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default "Adverts for broadband speeds to face new rules"

On Thu, 3 May 2018 10:33:34 +0100, Graham J
wrote:

The length and quality of the phone line is the limiting factor. If you
live too far away from the exchange there is nothing even the best ISP
can do to improve your speeds. However they may be able to force
Openreach to improve reliability.


Indeed, and in the days when electronic communication just meant the
telephone, every aspect of it, the wiring, provision of the service,
issuing of your phone number, and the rental of the instrument itself,
was the responsibility of one organisation - the GPO. Any complaint
about anything wrong with any of it could go to one place.

Now with the internet we can have the wiring rented to us by BT,
faults with the wiring dealt with by Openreach (though we can't talk
to them directly), the service provided by an ISP, equipment bought by
the customer, and the maximum possible speed dependent on the laws of
physics because it uses wiring installed many years ago by the GPO for
a different purpose that had less stringent requirements.

So everybody can blame somebody else.

Rod.

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