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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Average broadband rates near 50Mbps in UK



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 11th 18, 07:30 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 537
Default Average broadband rates near 50Mbps in UK

On Friday, 11 May 2018 14:41:31 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 11 May 2018 11:58:54 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
news Lack of mains gas is a pretty good proxy for broadband not spots.

I think there are a lot more houses without gas than are without decent
(min
10 Mbps) broadband.


They can get LPG, but it is expensive. Equally you can get satellite
broadband on remote islands...


I was meaning "a lot more houses without *mains* gas than without decent
broadband". Anywhere can get bottled gas (providing it can be delivered!)..
My parents have a cottage in the Dales which comes into the
never-in-a-million-years category for mains gas; sadly they chose to go for
bottled gas rather than oil for the central heating, and it's horrendously
expensive: about 130 for two 47 kg cylinders which last a month at best -
and that's with a coal stove as supplementary heating.


It is cheaper if you have a tank - IIRC I paid 250 for 300kg (half her tank) a couple of years back when my sister ran out before pay day.


The irony is that about 20 years ago, British Gas dug up one of the main
access roads to the village in order to install a large main to take gas
from one town to the next. The village enquired about the cost of having a
spur, but it was horrendously expensive for two farms and seven houses. The
local farmer offered to do the unskilled work of digging a trench with his
JCB for free, ready for British Gas to do the skilled work of installing the
pipe and connecting it up, but that was Not Allowed: BG had to use their own
contractor who charged a disproportionally high amount. I think the charges
were higher than normal because BG didn't want to hassle of a small spur off
a trunk main.

At least telephone cable can be installed/upgraded more easily than gas
pipes. Mind you, I imagine the chances of FTTC in this millennium are
sqrt(bugger-all).


  #12  
Old May 11th 18, 07:53 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 387
Default Average broadband rates near 50Mbps in UK

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
It is cheaper if you have a tank - IIRC I paid 250 for 300kg (half her
tank) a couple of years back when my sister ran out before pay day.


Is that propane or LPG? Do boilers need more radical work (given that the
default is to run on methane - natural gas) for conversion to LPG rather
than to propane?

I wonder if part of the reason for my parents going for cylinders is that
cylinders can be stored closer to buildings whereas maybe tanks have to be
kept further from buildings which would be a problem with a cottage that has
a small front garden, and a back garden that can only be accessed through
the house, requiring someone to be in when the delivery driver turns up.

  #13  
Old May 11th 18, 08:42 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
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Posts: 164
Default Average broadband rates near 50Mbps in UK

NY wrote:
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
It is cheaper if you have a tank - IIRC I paid 250 for 300kg (half her
tank) a couple of years back when my sister ran out before pay day.


Is that propane or LPG? Do boilers need more radical work (given that the
default is to run on methane - natural gas) for conversion to LPG rather
than to propane?

Isn't LPG simply either Propane or Butane?

--
Chris Green

  #14  
Old May 11th 18, 10:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
stephen
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Posts: 381
Default Average broadband rates near 50Mbps in UK

On Fri, 11 May 2018 04:16:07 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

On Friday, 11 May 2018 11:58:54 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
news
Lack of mains gas is a pretty good proxy for broadband not spots.


I think there are a lot more houses without gas than are without decent (min
10 Mbps) broadband.


They can get LPG, but it is expensive. Equally you can get satellite broadband on remote islands...


many of the islands have terrestrial links

zoom in on the UK on this map of subsea cables.
https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

Although this misses off some "local" shorter links, such as the ones
to Isle of Wight.....

And a point to point Gigabit microwave link for backhaul is fairly
straightforward for 10s of Km where there is line of sight if you want
something to the smaller offshore bits

--
Stephen
  #15  
Old May 12th 18, 11:02 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 387
Default Average broadband rates near 50Mbps in UK

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
And a point to point Gigabit microwave link for backhaul is fairly
straightforward for 10s of Km where there is line of sight if you want
something to the smaller offshore bits


For many people (offshore islands excluded) the problem is not that exchange
does not have a fast backhaul connection (probably by fibre) but the "last
few miles" connection from the exchange to the individual houses. Remote
villages have two problems: getting fibre to a cabinet, and ribbon bulding
with sparse housing so that only a few houses are close to a cabinet, no
matter where you put it.

  #16  
Old May 12th 18, 11:31 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 537
Default Average broadband rates near 50Mbps in UK

On Friday, 11 May 2018 21:13:42 UTC+1, Stephen wrote:
On Fri, 11 May 2018 04:16:07 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

On Friday, 11 May 2018 11:58:54 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
news Lack of mains gas is a pretty good proxy for broadband not spots.

I think there are a lot more houses without gas than are without decent (min
10 Mbps) broadband.


They can get LPG, but it is expensive. Equally you can get satellite broadband on remote islands...


many of the islands have terrestrial links

zoom in on the UK on this map of subsea cables.
https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

Although this misses off some "local" shorter links, such as the ones
to Isle of Wight.....

And a point to point Gigabit microwave link for backhaul is fairly
straightforward for 10s of Km where there is line of sight if you want
something to the smaller offshore bits

--
Stephen


The point was that you did not need a "mains" connection, but as with LPG the cost is much higher.
  #17  
Old May 12th 18, 11:32 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 537
Default Average broadband rates near 50Mbps in UK

On Friday, 11 May 2018 19:48:03 UTC+1, Chris Green wrote:
NY wrote:
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
It is cheaper if you have a tank - IIRC I paid 250 for 300kg (half her
tank) a couple of years back when my sister ran out before pay day.


Is that propane or LPG? Do boilers need more radical work (given that the
default is to run on methane - natural gas) for conversion to LPG rather
than to propane?

Isn't LPG simply either Propane or Butane?

--
Chris Green


Usually a bit of a mixture of the two. In either a big tank or Calor gas bottles the product is kept liquid by pressure alone.

Propane boils at -42C at 1 bar, Butane at -1.
  #18  
Old May 12th 18, 03:32 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
stephen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 381
Default Average broadband rates near 50Mbps in UK

On Sat, 12 May 2018 02:31:57 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

On Friday, 11 May 2018 21:13:42 UTC+1, Stephen wrote:
On Fri, 11 May 2018 04:16:07 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

On Friday, 11 May 2018 11:58:54 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
news Lack of mains gas is a pretty good proxy for broadband not spots.

I think there are a lot more houses without gas than are without decent (min
10 Mbps) broadband.

They can get LPG, but it is expensive. Equally you can get satellite broadband on remote islands...


many of the islands have terrestrial links

zoom in on the UK on this map of subsea cables.
https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

Although this misses off some "local" shorter links, such as the ones
to Isle of Wight.....

And a point to point Gigabit microwave link for backhaul is fairly
straightforward for 10s of Km where there is line of sight if you want
something to the smaller offshore bits

--
Stephen


The point was that you did not need a "mains" connection, but as with LPG the cost is much higher.


And the flip side is that BT, goverments et al noticed part of their
population is not on the mainland, and have finally mostly fixed it as
an issue, at least for telecomms......

Seems ironic you can get FTTP in some Scottish islands and cannot get
FTTC in smaller places near major cities.

On the other hand - BT got ~ 150m from the Scottish parlement to fill
some of the gaps in Scotland.

--
Stephen
  #19  
Old May 12th 18, 05:15 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MB[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 204
Default Average broadband rates near 50Mbps in UK

On 11/05/2018 09:17, Martin Brown wrote:
On 09/05/2018 17:45, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
https://www.telecompaper.com/news/av...ofcom--1243640


Mine is about that, and could be double if I wanted to pay a lot more.

Still about a million with slow broadband, but they tend to live in
the sticks like my sister.* For some reason they moan about how
everyone else should pay for them to get high speed broadband, but
they forget that for other services there was a long wait compared to
cities and it cost .* My sister lived in small settlement in rural
Lincolnshire and this is is when stuff was connected: -


Phone - unknown, but probably 1930's and even then.
Electricity - 1952
Mains water - unknown


Rural locations tended to have private water supplies that were quite
decent (water quality taste wise was better).

Mains sewerage - 2016, with a 2k charge for connection.
Mains gas - still not got there, unlikely it ever will.


Lack of mains gas is a pretty good proxy for broadband not spots.


And those services can be more expensive to supply to rural areas.

MPs are fond of a good moan about rural broadband speeds but they do not
supply the service their rural constituents who will have to either
travel many miles to speak to their MP or wait for his next infrequent
visit to the area.

Newspapers also like a good moan about it but they do not get the
newspapers in your letterbox as early as they are in many towns whilst
charging the same price.

  #20  
Old May 12th 18, 05:24 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 387
Default Average broadband rates near 50Mbps in UK

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
Usually a bit of a mixture of the two. In either a big tank or Calor gas
bottles the product is kept liquid by pressure alone.

Propane boils at -42C at 1 bar, Butane at -1.


As a matter of interest, what is the normal pressure of 47 kg propane
cylinders a) when full, b) when "empty" (ie too low a pressure to feed a
standard appliance such as a boiler or a gas fire)?

We had problems with a faulty changeover valve between two banks of two
cylinders each: this is supposed to flip over from a green indication to a
red indication when the pressure is too low (it also changes from one pair
of cylinders to the other). It was sticking on green after the gas pressure
was too low, so the boiler would no longer work but we didn't know to order
replacement cylinders. And I was surprised that the boiler didn't have a
special error code for "gas pressure too low". It did display an error,
after a lot of huffing and puffing and subdued whoof as it tried to light
what was probably a very lean gas:air mixture. However the error code was
bland and uninformative, along the lines of "something has gone wrong". If
it had said "gas pressure too low" I've have ordered more gas and saved
having to call out a heating engineer. I wonder whether the boiler's logic
is intended for mains gas, where low pressure is almost unheard of, and
hasn't catered for bottled gas where it can happen. I remember when my
parents ordered the boiler, they had to specify a different burner for
propane rather than methane, but evidently the logic is the same and doesn't
have a specific error code.

 




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