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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Extending FTTC from a master socket



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 16th 18, 07:48 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Angus Robertson - Magenta Systems Ltd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 91
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

But going for a filtered faceplate is rather committing yourself
to having the router in one place for ever more


No, my filtered faceplate is on a different floor from the router and has
nothing plugged into the front.

You simply extend unfiltered broadband and filtered voice wiring from the
internal krone strip to appropriate sockets around the house.

I have a wall mounted RJ11 socket for the router to plug into, to avoid
confusing it with the voice sockets.

Angus

  #12  
Old May 16th 18, 07:54 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
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Posts: 663
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

NY wrote:
"Graham J" wrote in message
news
Use the cable provided with the router to connect the RJ11 socket on
the router (marked DSL or similar) to the RJ45 socket which extends
the unfiltered phone line. I know the RJ11 plug looks too small to
fit the RJ45 socket, but it does fit and is the way that Openreach do it.


I thought that the edges of an RJ11 plug fouled the extra pins at either
end of an RJ45 socket and could damage them. I was always taught that
you should never insert an RJ11 into an RJ45, along with various
imprecations about the parentage of the person who designed the smaller
plug so it could "sort-of-fit" into the larger socket.


I've just looked at a faceplate filter - one bought from Solwise, see:

https://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters-faceplates.htm

The DSL socket looks like an RJ45 and it does have all 8 contacts, so
the expectation is that it is intended to work with an RJ11 plug
inserted. The contacts are springy and intended to bend significantly
when a plug is inserted; further, the plug itself has plastic guides to
ensure that the contact wires of the socket are held in alignment with
the contacts on the plug. The mechanical process of inserting the plug
cleans and straightens the contacts in the socket.

--
Graham J

  #13  
Old May 16th 18, 11:24 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 357
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

"Theo" wrote in message
...
NY wrote:
But going for a filtered faceplate is rather committing yourself to
having
the router in one place for ever more - and that place is the worst place
in the house, given that most master sockets are at the point where the
drop cable enters the house, which is usually near the front door. Who
wants to put their router there if they need Ethernet rather than wifi to
PCs in a office in another room.


One option is to have a split modem and router. Put the modem next to the
master socket and then run cat5e/6 to the router. Site the router in the
best place for wireless reception and/or ethernet-connected machines.


I believe when FTTC/VDSL was first introduced, ISPs supplied a separate
modem. This was normally connected to a modem-less router (Ethernet input)
which was right next to it, but you could get a long cable (presumably Cat 5
Ethernet) to connect the two.

One of the problems is that Cat 5 is a lot thicker than standard telephone
extension wiring, so it is harder to tuck down the side of a carpet or to
run through a doorway under the metal strip that divides the carpet in one
room from that another room. It may require unsightly surface-mounted wiring
and maybe even holes drilled through walls and ceilings.

When a house already has extension phone wiring (maybe installed in trunking
by the builder, in a modern house) it makes sense to *try* using that first,
and only resort to the more invasive surface-mounted wiring if it is needed.

  #14  
Old May 16th 18, 11:37 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
[email protected]
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Posts: 10
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

NY wrote:

When a house already has extension phone wiring (maybe installed in trunking
by the builder, in a modern house) it makes sense to *try* using that first,
and only resort to the more invasive surface-mounted wiring if it is needed.


House extension wiring is very similar in guage to the incoming phone wire.
In my house the original master soocket was next to the front door - with
no mains power supply anywhere near. The Openreach engineer simply moved the
FTTC master socket to an extension which I nominated. Behind the faceplate
of the original master socket you can see the incoming phone line has been
firmly crimped to two wires of the extension cable.
At the extension the other end of these two wires are the input to the
FTTC Master Socket.

  #15  
Old May 16th 18, 11:46 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 357
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

"Graham J" wrote in message
news
NY wrote:
"Graham J" wrote in message
news
Use the cable provided with the router to connect the RJ11 socket on
the router (marked DSL or similar) to the RJ45 socket which extends
the unfiltered phone line. I know the RJ11 plug looks too small to
fit the RJ45 socket, but it does fit and is the way that Openreach do
it.


I thought that the edges of an RJ11 plug fouled the extra pins at either
end of an RJ45 socket and could damage them. I was always taught that
you should never insert an RJ11 into an RJ45, along with various
imprecations about the parentage of the person who designed the smaller
plug so it could "sort-of-fit" into the larger socket.


I've just looked at a faceplate filter - one bought from Solwise, see:

https://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters-faceplates.htm

The DSL socket looks like an RJ45 and it does have all 8 contacts, so the
expectation is that it is intended to work with an RJ11 plug inserted.
The contacts are springy and intended to bend significantly when a plug is
inserted; further, the plug itself has plastic guides to ensure that the
contact wires of the socket are held in alignment with the contacts on the
plug. The mechanical process of inserting the plug cleans and straightens
the contacts in the socket.


Mmmm. At work we were warned never to plug an RJ11 (telephone/router) into
an RJ45 (Ethernet). We were told it was because of physical damage that the
edges of the RJ11 plug could cause to the pins on either end of the RJ45
which are not present on RJ11 - that it tends to splay them sideways.

But I'm wondering whether it was more an electrical incompatibility between
RJ11 for a telephone (large DC, with large AC ringing voltage) and RJ45 for
Ethernet. I do PC repairs and internet fault-finding now, and I was once
called to a customer who had plugged an Ethernet cable from one of the
yellow "outputs" of his router into an RJ45 on his phone line (which, now I
think about it, proves that BT OR *do* sometimes install these). He wondered
why none of his phones worked. Applying 50 V (DC with intermittent AC) to an
Ethernet port probably doesn't do it a lot of good, and may well have
shorted the phone lines, so the exchange may well cut the power to that line
to avoid damage to exchange equipment.

I'm a firm believer in "one connector for one purpose" - in other words:

- RJ11 for phone/modem/router
- RJ45 for Ethernet
- 3.5 mm jack for low voltage audio signals (mic, line, headphones) - but
not for DC power from a wall-wart

  #16  
Old May 16th 18, 07:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Invalid
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 133
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

In message , Vir Campestris
writes
Colleague of mine has just bought his first house. The master socket is
in a stupid place - what's the best kind of cable to run from there to
where his router will be? He'd like to keep the 80Mbps he gets from the
cab across the road.

(Cable fatness is not an issue. The first job was to strip a load of
walls back to get rid of the asbestos-ridden plaster - done by pros in
suits. Complete re-wire is the next project)

Andy

Personally I would simply remove the master socket. Replace it with a
small Openreach style junction box (or a standard wall box with a flat
faceplate and use gel crimps) then extend the incoming pair using one
pair of a cat 5 cable to where you want the master socket. Refit the
master socket there.

The cable from the cab to the master is typically external grade cat3
(BT OR left me some when they shifted my incoming dropwire to allow an
extension to be built.) I doubt the extra length will make any
difference at all unless the joints are badly done or you run the cat 5
close parallel to a mains cable.

If you get a new modern faceplate type master socket, you can fit the
new one, run the cat 5 to the hall and then its a five minute job to
swap the incoming pair over from the old master to the cat 5. You could
even test the impact by doing before and after tests.

If there are existing extensions wired into the master in the hall, you
could run an extension from the filtered side of the new master back to
the old location using another of the pairs in the cat 5.

--
Invalid
  #17  
Old May 17th 18, 02:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 191
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

cts in the socket.

Mmmm. At work we were warned never to plug an RJ11 (telephone/router) into
an RJ45 (Ethernet). We were told it was because of physical damage that the
edges of the RJ11 plug could cause to the pins on either end of the RJ45
which are not present on RJ11 - that it tends to splay them sideways.




There is also another potential issue.
This problem is with the length of the mounding, not the width.

With many RJ45 socket designs, the shutter will close resting on the
cable emerging from an RJ11, trapping the plug behind the shutter.

The damage occurs when the end-user forces out the plug without
realising that she needs to squeeze the catch, and simultaneously lift
the shutter with a tool.

RJ45 patch pannels are unshuttered.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #18  
Old May 17th 18, 02:35 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 663
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

Graham. wrote:
cts in the socket.

Mmmm. At work we were warned never to plug an RJ11 (telephone/router) into
an RJ45 (Ethernet). We were told it was because of physical damage that the
edges of the RJ11 plug could cause to the pins on either end of the RJ45
which are not present on RJ11 - that it tends to splay them sideways.




There is also another potential issue.
This problem is with the length of the mounding, not the width.

With many RJ45 socket designs, the shutter will close resting on the
cable emerging from an RJ11, trapping the plug behind the shutter.

The damage occurs when the end-user forces out the plug without
realising that she needs to squeeze the catch, and simultaneously lift
the shutter with a tool.

RJ45 patch pannels are unshuttered.



That's because the barb on the RJ11 plug has been cut short so as to
make unplugging virtually impossible. I've seen it quite frequently; I
think some router manufacturers "customise" their leads specially!

--
Graham J





  #19  
Old May 17th 18, 04:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 191
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

Graham. wrote:
cts in the socket.

Mmmm. At work we were warned never to plug an RJ11 (telephone/router) into
an RJ45 (Ethernet). We were told it was because of physical damage that the
edges of the RJ11 plug could cause to the pins on either end of the RJ45
which are not present on RJ11 - that it tends to splay them sideways.




There is also another potential issue.
This problem is with the length of the mounding, not the width.

With many RJ45 socket designs, the shutter will close resting on the
cable emerging from an RJ11, trapping the plug behind the shutter.

The damage occurs when the end-user forces out the plug without
realising that she needs to squeeze the catch, and simultaneously lift
the shutter with a tool.

RJ45 patch pannels are unshuttered.



That's because the barb on the RJ11 plug has been cut short so as to
make unplugging virtually impossible. I've seen it quite frequently; I
think some router manufacturers "customise" their leads specially!


No, the clip is on the underside, the shutter comes down on the top.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #20  
Old May 18th 18, 09:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Vir Campestris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 209
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

On 16/05/2018 11:24, NY wrote:
One of the problems is that Cat 5 is a lot thicker than standard
telephone extension wiring, so it is harder to tuck down the side of a
carpet or to run through a doorway under the metal strip that divides
the carpet in one room from that another room. It may require unsightly
surface-mounted wiring and maybe even holes drilled through walls and
ceilings.


All his ceilings and a lot of the internal walls are missing. This will
make the electrical rewire easier, and was necessary because rewiring a
house covered in asbestos-rich Artex was perhaps a little more dangerous
than one would wish.

He's also putting a load of Cat5 (grade1 geek, as are most of us) so
using some of that won't be a problem.

Thanks All

Andy
 




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