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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Extending FTTC from a master socket



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 15th 18, 09:21 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Vir Campestris
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Posts: 199
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

Colleague of mine has just bought his first house. The master socket is
in a stupid place - what's the best kind of cable to run from there to
where his router will be? He'd like to keep the 80Mbps he gets from the
cab across the road.

(Cable fatness is not an issue. The first job was to strip a load of
walls back to get rid of the asbestos-ridden plaster - done by pros in
suits. Complete re-wire is the next project)

Andy
  #2  
Old May 15th 18, 09:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
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Posts: 339
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

"Vir Campestris" wrote in message
news
Colleague of mine has just bought his first house. The master socket is in
a stupid place - what's the best kind of cable to run from there to where
his router will be? He'd like to keep the 80Mbps he gets from the cab
across the road.

(Cable fatness is not an issue. The first job was to strip a load of walls
back to get rid of the asbestos-ridden plaster - done by pros in suits.
Complete re-wire is the next project)


Before we upgraded from ADSL to FTTC, the router was in an upstairs bedroom,
via ancient BT house wiring from a GPO rectangular junction box and then by
my own ribbon cable extension under metal strips in doorways and round the
edges of carpets from that socket to the router. Pretty crappy cable, I'm
sure.

When we upgraded, I did the right thing and put the router right by the
master socket. I had to install Homeplug devices to get Ethernet upstairs to
the room where my PCs were, and the wireless coverage of a router downstairs
at one corner of the house was not as good as with the router upstairs and
more centrally.

With the router in the optimal position (no house wiring) I got about 25
Mbps on Speedtest.net. I then tried with the house wiring in circuit (ie
with the unfiltered faceplate in place) and the router in that faceplate,
and the speed reduced to 22. I felt bold so I tried the router in the
position that it had originally been, at the end of the house and
ribbon-cable extension and it reduced to about 20.


So... in my case the reduction in speed by putting the router where I wanted
it rather than at the master socket was noticeable but not a dramatic
reduction. I chose to take the hit for the convenience of the router next to
the devices that communicated locally (desktop and laptop PC) and where it
gave better wifi coverage. I could alternatively have paid BT OR horrendous
amounts of money to install a "data line" (ie unfiltered, with the rest of
the house wiring filtered at the master socket) which may well have given me
the full 25 Mbps.

I'd suggest you do the same: get absolute best-case figures and figures for
the router where *you* want it, and see whether the reduction is acceptable.

  #3  
Old May 15th 18, 10:28 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
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Posts: 211
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

Vir Campestris wrote:

The master socket is
in a stupid place - what's the best kind of cable to run from there to
where his router will be?


No need to go overboard for a few metres inside the house, cat5 will be
fine, he probably wouldn't notice any loss with just cat3/cw1308 cable
  #4  
Old May 15th 18, 10:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.[_3_]
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Posts: 178
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

Colleague of mine has just bought his first house. The master socket is
in a stupid place - what's the best kind of cable to run from there to
where his router will be? He'd like to keep the 80Mbps he gets from the
cab across the road.

(Cable fatness is not an issue. The first job was to strip a load of
walls back to get rid of the asbestos-ridden plaster - done by pros in
suits. Complete re-wire is the next project)

Andy


Solid core CAT5e or CAT6 cable
Does the master socket have a faceplate filter fitted?

Multiple filters, one at each socket, is not the best way to proceed
despite what your ISP may tell you.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #5  
Old May 15th 18, 10:40 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 89
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

On 15/05/2018 22:28, Andy Burns wrote:
Vir Campestris wrote:

The master socket is
in a stupid place - what's the best kind of cable to run from there to
where his router will be?


No need to go overboard for a few metres inside the house, cat5 will be
fine, he probably wouldn't notice any loss with just cat3/cw1308 cable


The thing to do is try a length of 20m extension cable (not coiled up)
and see if you can even detect the difference. My guess is that unless
the cable has been exceptionally badly made you will not see anything
measurable until 50m or more of good quality cable has been added.

If you use bell wire then all bets are off.

Splitting the ADSL signal from the phone house wiring ASAP will help.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #6  
Old May 15th 18, 10:46 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
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Posts: 633
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

Vir Campestris wrote:
Colleague of mine has just bought his first house. The master socket is
in a stupid place - what's the best kind of cable to run from there to
where his router will be? He'd like to keep the 80Mbps he gets from the
cab across the road.

(Cable fatness is not an issue. The first job was to strip a load of
walls back to get rid of the asbestos-ridden plaster - done by pros in
suits. Complete re-wire is the next project)


If you were to ask Openreach to do this they would extend the phone line
from the unfiltered connection on the faceplate filter using Cat5 cable,
terminated in a wall-mounted RJ45 socket.

You could do the same, however you might find it easier to install a
Cat5 cable with wall-mounted RJ45 sockets at each end; the one nearest
the incoming phone line being mounted adjacent to the master socket.
Then use a short Cat5 patch lead from the unfiltered output of the
faceplate filter to the Cat5 cable.

Use the cable provided with the router to connect the RJ11 socket on the
router (marked DSL or similar) to the RJ45 socket which extends the
unfiltered phone line. I know the RJ11 plug looks too small to fit the
RJ45 socket, but it does fit and is the way that Openreach do it.

Having said that, I've just done this for a friend who has FTTC, where
the unfiltered phone line is extended by about 10 metres using cat5
cable installed in the wall cavity. The router shows 25dB SNR margin
when plugged into the filtered faceplate, but only 10dB SNR margin when
connected via the CAT5 cable. Similarly the Attainable Rate drops from
105 Mbits/sec to about 60 Mbits/sec (not a problem since the service is
capped at 40Mbits/sec). So in this case extending the phone line with
Cat5 cable does degrade the service. But with the Cat5 cable installed
the router sits adjacent to the incoming phone line and the Cat5 cable
connects the router to a network switch in the "office" where the
computers and printer are located. Happily this location for the router
is better for wireless coverage through the house.

--
Graham J



  #7  
Old May 15th 18, 11:05 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 339
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

"Graham." wrote in message
...
Colleague of mine has just bought his first house. The master socket is
in a stupid place - what's the best kind of cable to run from there to
where his router will be? He'd like to keep the 80Mbps he gets from the
cab across the road.

(Cable fatness is not an issue. The first job was to strip a load of
walls back to get rid of the asbestos-ridden plaster - done by pros in
suits. Complete re-wire is the next project)

Andy


Solid core CAT5e or CAT6 cable
Does the master socket have a faceplate filter fitted?

Multiple filters, one at each socket, is not the best way to proceed
despite what your ISP may tell you.


Quite so, because of reflections up the unused arms.

But going for a filtered faceplate is rather committing yourself to having
the router in one place for ever more - and that place is the worst place in
the house, given that most master sockets are at the point where the drop
cable enters the house, which is usually near the front door. Who wants to
put their router there if they need Ethernet rather than wifi to PCs in a
office in another room.

  #8  
Old May 15th 18, 11:08 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 339
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

"Graham J" wrote in message
news
Use the cable provided with the router to connect the RJ11 socket on the
router (marked DSL or similar) to the RJ45 socket which extends the
unfiltered phone line. I know the RJ11 plug looks too small to fit the
RJ45 socket, but it does fit and is the way that Openreach do it.


I thought that the edges of an RJ11 plug fouled the extra pins at either end
of an RJ45 socket and could damage them. I was always taught that you should
never insert an RJ11 into an RJ45, along with various imprecations about the
parentage of the person who designed the smaller plug so it could
"sort-of-fit" into the larger socket.

  #9  
Old May 16th 18, 12:06 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
[email protected]
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Posts: 1
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

On Tue, 15 May 2018 22:46:05 +0100, Graham J
wrote:

Vir Campestris wrote:
Colleague of mine has just bought his first house. The master socket is
in a stupid place - what's the best kind of cable to run from there to
where his router will be? He'd like to keep the 80Mbps he gets from the
cab across the road.

(Cable fatness is not an issue. The first job was to strip a load of
walls back to get rid of the asbestos-ridden plaster - done by pros in
suits. Complete re-wire is the next project)


If you were to ask Openreach to do this they would extend the phone line
from the unfiltered connection on the faceplate filter using Cat5 cable,
terminated in a wall-mounted RJ45 socket.

[snip]

Well you could ask Openreach and maybe they will cock it up like my
son's rented premises. When he moved in he finds BB rate at abouit
2.5mbps from an Openreach "box" with BB and phone outputs. The
property is about 500 metres from the local exchange.

Investigation reveals:-

Incomong line to NTE, a master socket with remoneable faceplate. The
faceplate (with phone socket only) has extension wiring, star wired to
3 other locations.

2 of those locations are normal phone extensions elsewhere in the
property, the third is to an Openreach NTE with BB and phone
outputs.

The wiring INTO this NTE investigation reveals it is a master socket
with BB and phone ouputs) is connected to the outgoing extension wire
connectors of the removeable faceplate of this NTE. (not to the A and
B connectors, which would have been incorrect as well).

The landlord says the wiring was done by the local Openreach engineer
and it thus must be correct.

To get reasonable BB (circa 12 mbps) the faceplate of the incoming NTE
has been removed and a filter plugged into the 'test' socket. Phone
(DECT) and BB are connected to this filter.

--
brightside S9
  #10  
Old May 16th 18, 03:10 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Theo[_2_]
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Posts: 40
Default Extending FTTC from a master socket

NY wrote:
But going for a filtered faceplate is rather committing yourself to having
the router in one place for ever more - and that place is the worst place
in the house, given that most master sockets are at the point where the
drop cable enters the house, which is usually near the front door. Who
wants to put their router there if they need Ethernet rather than wifi to
PCs in a office in another room.


One option is to have a split modem and router. Put the modem next to the
master socket and then run cat5e/6 to the router. Site the router in the
best place for wireless reception and/or ethernet-connected machines.

It's a bit unconventional so probably needs someone to set it up, as opposed
to using the A.N.Cheapo DSL-router supplied by the ISP. It may also have
support implications (ie they won't get much help from ISP in fixing
problems)

Theo
 



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