A Broadband and ADSL forum. BroadbanterBanter

Welcome to BroadbanterBanter.

You are currently viewing as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today.

Go Back   Home » BroadbanterBanter forum » Newsgroup Discussions » uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) (uk.telecom.voip) Discussion of topics relevant to packet based voice technologies including Voice over IP (VoIP), Fax over IP (FoIP), Voice over Frame Relay (VoFR), Voice over Broadband (VoB) and Voice on the Net (VoN) as well as service providers, hardware and software for use with these technologies. Advertising is not allowed.

Integration of VoIP with Tunstall healthcare alarm



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old June 30th 18, 02:31 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Graham.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Integration of VoIP with Tunstall healthcare alarm

and here is the top of the "Line 1" page, not how we are in "Advanced
View"
https://www.flickr.com/gp/g3zvt/VV142y
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #12  
Old June 30th 18, 07:38 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 689
Default Integration of VoIP with Tunstall healthcare alarm

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Graham J writes:
Andy Burns wrote:
Graham J wrote:

Three pairs of two tones, might be DTMF but at a higher pitch.

Does the ATA have any settings to control in-band vs out-of-band DTMF?
Or settings to disable lower bandwidth codecs that might mangle DTMF?


In a word, no. I show below the parameters I can see, with some blanked
out for anonymity. There's a similar group of parameters for Line 2,
which is not currently registered.


I believe the PAP2 is similar to the SPA3000 (but with
a second phone line instead of the exchange line interface)
which I have configured.

You might want to look at the codec selection, for which
you need to select admin login, and then advanced (at least
on the SPA3000).

Then you should find a menu like this in the Line 1 and
Line 2 tabs:

Audio Configuration

Preferred Codec:G711u Silence Supp Enable:no
Use Pref Codec Only:no Silence Threshold:medium
G729a Enable:yes Echo Canc Enable:yes
G723 Enable:yes Echo Canc Adapt Enable:yes
G726-16 Enable:yes Echo Supp Enable:yes
G726-24 Enable:yes FAX CED Detect Enable:yes
G726-32 Enable:yes FAX CNG Detect Enable:yes
G726-40 Enable:yes FAX Passthru Codec:G711u
DTMF Process INFO:yes FAX Codec Symmetric:yes
DTMF Process AVT:yes FAX Passthru Method:NSE
DTMF Tx Method:Auto DTMF Tx Mode:Strict
FAX Process NSE:yes Hook Flash Tx Method:none
FAX Disable ECAN:no Release Unused Codec:yes
Symmetric RTP:yes

These are the values I happen to have set which were the
SPA3000 defaults. It might be that you have some of the
better ones disabled as many VOIP providers did in the
early days to limit internet bandwidth used.

I don't think it can do any harm to enable them, as this
is negotiated with the other end anyway, and one which
both ends support is selected. You might want to note
what they all are to start with though, in case you need
to revert.

I used to know what many of these codecs were, 15 years
ago when I set the system up ;-)
Others here may be able to comment.


Thanks. I can see these parameters, and they are virtually the same. I
note that my DTMF mode is "Auto".

As others have suggested, Voipfone does provision this device
automatically so if I make changes they may revert later. However I
have a support call with Voipfone arranged for Monday and if a specific
change gets the system to work then I'm sure Voipfone will be able to
save a custom configuration for me.

I've opened a discussion in uk.telecom.broadband to see if there is a
network-based product that I can simply plug into the LAN; something
that is integrated with a call centre since the important issue is that
if the patient invokes the alarm the call centre will try a list of
contacts until somebody is found who can visit the patient and resolve
any problems.

--
Graham J


  #13  
Old June 30th 18, 01:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Bob Eager[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Integration of VoIP with Tunstall healthcare alarm

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 02:25:09 +0100, Graham. wrote:

In article ,
Graham J writes:
Andy Burns wrote:
Graham J wrote:

Three pairs of two tones, might be DTMF but at a higher pitch.

Does the ATA have any settings to control in-band vs out-of-band
DTMF?
Or settings to disable lower bandwidth codecs that might mangle DTMF?

In a word, no. I show below the parameters I can see, with some
blanked out for anonymity. There's a similar group of parameters for
Line 2, which is not currently registered.


I believe the PAP2 is similar to the SPA3000 (but with a second phone
line instead of the exchange line interface)
which I have configured.

You might want to look at the codec selection, for which you need to
select admin login, and then advanced (at least on the SPA3000).

Then you should find a menu like this in the Line 1 and Line 2 tabs:

Audio Configuration

Preferred Codec:G711u Silence Supp Enable:no Use Pref Codec Only:no
Silence Threshold:medium G729a Enable:yes Echo Canc Enable:yes G723
Enable:yes Echo Canc Adapt Enable:yes G726-16 Enable:yes

Echo Supp
Enable:yes G726-24 Enable:yes FAX CED Detect Enable:yes G726-32
Enable:yes FAX CNG Detect Enable:yes G726-40 Enable:yes FAX

Passthru
Codec:G711u DTMF Process INFO:yes FAX Codec Symmetric:yes DTMF

Process
AVT:yes FAX Passthru Method:NSE DTMF Tx Method:Auto DTMF Tx

Mode:Strict
FAX Process NSE:yes Hook Flash Tx Method:none FAX Disable ECAN:no
Release Unused Codec:yes Symmetric RTP:yes

These are the values I happen to have set which were the SPA3000
defaults. It might be that you have some of the better ones disabled as
many VOIP providers did in the early days to limit internet bandwidth
used.

I don't think it can do any harm to enable them, as this is negotiated
with the other end anyway, and one which both ends support is selected.
You might want to note what they all are to start with though, in case
you need to revert.

I used to know what many of these codecs were, 15 years ago when I set
the system up ;-)
Others here may be able to comment.



It looks to me that Graham's PAP-2 has had "provisioning" enabled and is
therefore locked to Voipfone, and most of the settings hidden.


This is what the "Line 1" tab of my not-locked PAP-2 looks like.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/g3zvt/g41R7k


Assuming that he is not just logged in as a user, rather than admin. Even
on an unlocked unit, a lot is hidden as 'user'.
  #14  
Old July 9th 18, 09:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Integration of VoIP with Tunstall healthcare alarm

On Friday, 29 June 2018 15:16:48 UTC+1, Graham J wrote:
... and it is not any of the numbers 0 - 9 but # and * are not
demonstrated. The same two tones are repeated three times as if I am
hearing #* #* #* - the sound level is loud, the same as for the DTMF
tones used for dialling.


The fourth column ABCD tones perhaps?

The installation manual page 20 says

It is important to set the correct destination type otherwise the recipient of the alarm call will not be able to deal with it correctly. A CC call expects a particular handshake from the control centre, a PR call requires a recipient with a touch tone telephone and a POTS call is a normal telephone call (i.e. fast dial button).

There is a programming code 48 accessible from the series connected phone to change the destination type.

There is also an option on page 22 to change from DTMF to Sequential Tone Multi Frequency (STMF)

A setting of "Unit always uses STMF (for use when operating on GSM and/or NGN networks)." This setting may be worth trying for a VoIP line.

NOTE: Before using STMF, the PNC monitoring centre and back up centre must be configured to receive STMF protocol. It's possible that your Careline provider doesn't support STMF.

The above comment does suggest another option, of using a GSM connection rather than VoIP. This might also be advisable if the modem/router/PAP2 isn't UPS backed-up.

Apart from trying STMF the options are
- try a different codec and DTMF settings as advised
- try a different ATA
- try a different VoIP host. Sipgate are free to try assuming the Careline number is 0800 so you don't need to add any credit.

Owain

  #15  
Old July 10th 18, 07:40 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 689
Default Integration of VoIP with Tunstall healthcare alarm

wrote:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 15:16:48 UTC+1, Graham J wrote:
... and it is not any of the numbers 0 - 9 but # and * are not
demonstrated. The same two tones are repeated three times as if I am
hearing #* #* #* - the sound level is loud, the same as for the DTMF
tones used for dialling.


The fourth column ABCD tones perhaps?

The installation manual page 20 says

It is important to set the correct destination type otherwise the recipient of the alarm call will not be able to deal with it correctly. A CC call expects a particular handshake from the control centre, a PR call requires a recipient with a touch tone telephone and a POTS call is a normal telephone call (i.e. fast dial button).

There is a programming code 48 accessible from the series connected phone to change the destination type.

There is also an option on page 22 to change from DTMF to Sequential Tone Multi Frequency (STMF)

A setting of "Unit always uses STMF (for use when operating on GSM and/or NGN networks)." This setting may be worth trying for a VoIP line.

NOTE: Before using STMF, the PNC monitoring centre and back up centre must be configured to receive STMF protocol. It's possible that your Careline provider doesn't support STMF.


There's nobody at Careline365 who understands the issue so I can't get
them to change the settings at their monitoring centre.


The above comment does suggest another option, of using a GSM connection rather than VoIP. This might also be advisable if the modem/router/PAP2 isn't UPS backed-up.



The Tunstall device is decribed as supporting a module to make a GSM
connection. However they haven't responded to an email request for a
quote to supply a device and registration with an appropriate monitoring
service. So I will try ringing them ...


Apart from trying STMF the options are
- try a different codec and DTMF settings as advised
- try a different ATA
- try a different VoIP host. Sipgate are free to try assuming the Careline number is 0800 so you don't need to add any credit.


No, the number tht the Tunstall device dials for Careline365 is 0208 522
**** so clearly not free.

There is a sales number for Careline365 which is free, but the people
there stick to the specification that their device/system only works
over a BT line.

Thanks anyway.

--
Graham J

  #16  
Old July 10th 18, 10:01 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Integration of VoIP with Tunstall healthcare alarm

On Tuesday, 10 July 2018 07:40:24 UTC+1, Graham J wrote:
There is a programming code 48 accessible from the series connected phone
to change the destination type.
There is also an option on page 22 to change from DTMF to Sequential Tone
Multi Frequency (STMF)

There's nobody at Careline365 who understands the issue so I can't get
them to change the settings at their monitoring centre.


They might not be able to change even if they understood the issue; it might need a software upgrade they haven't paid for.

However you could try changing the settings on the unit from a series-connected phone as described in the manual (if it hasn't been locked down by Careline).

If the Cat5 wiring isn't being used for Gig ethernet it will have 2 spare pairs, which might be used to extend the phone line.

Owain



  #17  
Old July 10th 18, 02:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 689
Default Integration of VoIP with Tunstall healthcare alarm

wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 July 2018 07:40:24 UTC+1, Graham J wrote:
There is a programming code 48 accessible from the series connected phone
to change the destination type.
There is also an option on page 22 to change from DTMF to Sequential Tone
Multi Frequency (STMF)

There's nobody at Careline365 who understands the issue so I can't get
them to change the settings at their monitoring centre.


They might not be able to change even if they understood the issue; it might need a software upgrade they haven't paid for.


Fair comment ...


However you could try changing the settings on the unit from a series-connected phone as described in the manual (if it hasn't been locked down by Careline).


I didn't want to do anything that would not be supported by Careline365
so apart from understanding why the Tunstall device won't work over VoIP
what I'm now looking for is an alternative product that will work over
an IP connection - a product that is fully supported by its supplier so
I'm not involved in its configuration or management.


If the Cat5 wiring isn't being used for Gig ethernet it will have 2 spare pairs, which might be used to extend the phone line.


Sadly the path from the internet router to the kitchen is achieved with
a single installed Cat5 cable - don't blame me: the builder installed it
before I got involved. The extension of the network from the kitchen to
the granny annexe (and other locations) uses a network switch. There is
a spare cable along this path, but I put that in for redundancy. So
using the spare pairs isn't really an option.

Thanks for thinking about he problem for me.

--
Graham J

  #18  
Old July 10th 18, 04:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Graham.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Integration of VoIP with Tunstall healthcare alarm




If the Cat5 wiring isn't being used for Gig ethernet it will have 2 spare pairs, which might be used to extend the phone line.


Sadly the path from the internet router to the kitchen is achieved with
a single installed Cat5 cable


As Owen said, that means you have two redundent pairs if you forego a
"gigabit" connection " assuming both the router and the switch support
1000Mb/s

A 100Mb/s only needs two pairs and is overkill for most xDSL internet
connections.
So assuming she has exclusive use of the landline, that may well be
your best and simplest option.

If it still needs to be VoIP I concur with Andy Burns, and you need an
unlocked ATA so you have full control of the parameters, particualay
DTMF method and the codec used. I cant see any reason why you cant
continue with the same voipfone account in that device, but others
like Sipgate and Dallmont clones are also availible.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #19  
Old July 10th 18, 08:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 689
Default Integration of VoIP with Tunstall healthcare alarm

Graham. wrote:



If the Cat5 wiring isn't being used for Gig ethernet it will have 2 spare pairs, which might be used to extend the phone line.


Sadly the path from the internet router to the kitchen is achieved with
a single installed Cat5 cable


As Owen said, that means you have two redundent pairs if you forego a
"gigabit" connection " assuming both the router and the switch support
1000Mb/s

A 100Mb/s only needs two pairs and is overkill for most xDSL internet
connections.
So assuming she has exclusive use of the landline, that may well be
your best and simplest option.


[snip]

Owen is of course correct. It would be possible to wire up the 2 spare
pairs to take the phone via the cat5 cable all the way to the granny
annexe, and back. The Tunstall device is intended to be the only device
connected to the incoming phone line (excluding the microfilter and
router, of course); and all the ordinary phone extensions can be plugged
into its output. That way when an alarm is generated the Tunstall
device can guarantee to seize the line and make the outgoing call.

But given the physical arrangements at the site I didn't want to have
any non-standard wiring, or anything that might be disconnected by mistake.

By contrast I monitor the broadband connection and have a LAN-to-LAN VPN
through the router which allows me to monitor the Linksys ATA - so I can
see within a couple of minutes if any of these fail.

--
Graham J
  #20  
Old July 17th 18, 10:16 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
David Woolley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 98
Default Integration of VoIP with Tunstall healthcare alarm

On 29/06/18 10:11, Graham J wrote:

Tunstall cannot confirm that the unit will work with VoIP, but their
technical support people don't really understand the question, confusing
it with integration with a fibre connection to the home.


I believe these devices contain a modem (ignoring that DTMF
encoder/decoders are modems!).

They will have been tested for use on VoIP, but only to the 21CN
specification, i.e. using G.711 and with very low latency. Any
commercial VoIP network is likely to have far too much latency for any
modem that is sensitive to latency.

Also, of the parameters mentioned, I would turn off echo suppression.
That's one of the purposes of the 2100 Hz answer tone that modems
generate, but the ATA may well not understand that.

Codecs have already been discussed, but I would add that the provider
may, remotely, force the use of incompatible codec; they are selling a
voice only service.

I'd also note that this is a safety life application and I'd be
surprised if VoIP operators didn't disclaim liability.


 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PSTN integration on Livebox / Home Hub Phil Thompson uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) 7 November 27th 06 12:35 AM
VOIP Dialer and Outlook Integration Kev uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) 6 May 18th 06 11:49 AM
Lan with Telephone Integration -elniniol999- uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) 2 November 24th 05 11:21 PM
ADSL & Alarm Diallers Peter Hill uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 2 October 1st 05 02:51 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright 2004-2018 BroadbanterBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.