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Intermittent "destination address unreachable" when pining router



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 24th 18, 10:41 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 379
Default Intermittent "destination address unreachable" when pining router

What router fault could cause wireless devices (laptop, phone)
intermittently to lose contact with the router (can't even ping the gateway
address - destination address unreachable), even though the laptop believes
that it is still connected when you click on the wireless icon in the system
tray. The wireless icon says "no internet connection" but I don't think that
means that the router has lost its WAN connection, only that the laptop
cannot talk to the router.

It's a router at a holiday cottage where we're staying, so it's not possible
simply to reboot the router. The fault seems to clear itself after a few
minutes - I'm not sure whether anyone has to intervene or whether it rights
itself spontaneously.

There are no other wifi networks on the same or overlapping networks.
ipconfig reports a sensible IP address - ie not 169.x.x.x

  #2  
Old August 24th 18, 10:59 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 271
Default Intermittent "destination address unreachable" when pining router

NY wrote:

There are no other wifi networks on the same or overlapping networks.
ipconfig reports a sensible IP address


You shouldn't need to, but if the router's outside your control it might
help to see what DHCP address it gets, then give that as a fixed IP
address ... do the same for DNS or use e.g 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1

If you can fix your laptop to either 2.4GHz or 5GHz, try each, rather
than letting it choose and possibly flip-flop between them.


  #3  
Old August 24th 18, 03:15 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 689
Default Intermittent "destination address unreachable" when pining router

NY wrote:
What router fault could cause wireless devices (laptop, phone)
intermittently to lose contact with the router (can't even ping the
gateway address - destination address unreachable), even though the
laptop believes that it is still connected when you click on the
wireless icon in the system tray. The wireless icon says "no internet
connection" but I don't think that means that the router has lost its
WAN connection, only that the laptop cannot talk to the router.

It's a router at a holiday cottage where we're staying, so it's not
possible simply to reboot the router.


I suspect you could turn all the power off at the meter, wait 10 secs,
and turn it all on. That ought to reboot the router unless it is
located in a different building, or has its own UPS.

The fault seems to clear itself
after a few minutes - I'm not sure whether anyone has to intervene or
whether it rights itself spontaneously.

There are no other wifi networks on the same or overlapping networks.
ipconfig reports a sensible IP address - ie not 169.x.x.x


Can you install inSSIDer from

https://www.metageek.com/products/inssider/free/

(or an equivalent product)?

That would show whether the WIFi signal is disappearing intermittently,
and may indicate whether there are other sources of radio interference.

Once your laptop has acquired a sensible address it is likely to keep it
until you tell it to drop and re-establish the WiFi connection, because
as far as your laptop is concerned the wireless interface thinks it is
still connected. By contrast if you had a wired connection and
unplugged the cable, your laptop would lose its IP address and might get
a different one when you reconnect the cable.

--
Graham J


  #4  
Old August 24th 18, 07:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 675
Default Intermittent "destination address unreachable" when pining router


"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
What router fault could cause wireless devices (laptop, phone)
intermittently to lose contact with the router (can't even ping the
gateway address - destination address unreachable), even though the
laptop believes that it is still connected when you click on the
wireless icon in the system tray. The wireless icon says "no
internet connection" but I don't think that means that the router
has lost its WAN connection, only that the laptop cannot talk to the
router.

It's a router at a holiday cottage where we're staying, so it's not
possible simply to reboot the router. The fault seems to clear
itself after a few minutes - I'm not sure whether anyone has to
intervene or whether it rights itself spontaneously.

There are no other wifi networks on the same or overlapping
networks. ipconfig reports a sensible IP address - ie not 169.x.x.x


IP config shows address 169.x.x. means there is no wireless
connection as the device has been unable to contact the DHCP server.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #5  
Old August 24th 18, 11:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 689
Default Intermittent "destination address unreachable" when pining router

Woody wrote:
"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
What router fault could cause wireless devices (laptop, phone)
intermittently to lose contact with the router (can't even ping the
gateway address - destination address unreachable), even though the
laptop believes that it is still connected when you click on the
wireless icon in the system tray. The wireless icon says "no
internet connection" but I don't think that means that the router
has lost its WAN connection, only that the laptop cannot talk to the
router.

It's a router at a holiday cottage where we're staying, so it's not
possible simply to reboot the router. The fault seems to clear
itself after a few minutes - I'm not sure whether anyone has to
intervene or whether it rights itself spontaneously.

There are no other wifi networks on the same or overlapping
networks. ipconfig reports a sensible IP address - ie not 169.x.x.x


IP config shows address 169.x.x. means there is no wireless
connection as the device has been unable to contact the DHCP server.


This is not the point the OP was making! His laptop does ***NOT*** show
an autoconfiguration address!!

So the conclusion is that when the laptop first connected to the wifi
signal it communicated with a DHCP server and was issued with a sensible
IP address. At some later time the laptop continued to think that there
was a wireless connection so it retained the IP address it was issued
with, but showed "no internet connection".

However in Windows 10 the icon can indicate "connection to the router
but not the internet" - see:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/...-10-wifi-icons

The OP confirms that he can't ping the router.

To the OP: what does does the WiFi icon show? If you have Windows 7
please refer to:

https://www.home-network-help.com/network-icon.html

Specifically item 4. The "staircase" component indicates the signal
strength (very crudely). Anything less than 2 bars generally means the
signal strength is not enough for a reliable connection; however the
icon has to show no bars at all for several seconds before the
connection drops. Clearly Windows 7 cannot distinguish between "no
connection to router" and "no internet connection", but the OP can, and
confirms that his intermittent situation is "no connection to router".

Try
ping router-ip -t
.... and note the response times. If they are consistent at about 50mS,
but at other times fail completely - this suggests the wifi component is
working ok and the fault lies elsewhere. If the reply times vary then
the wifi channel is inadequate in some way. There may be other sources
of interference - a microwave oven, for example.

The OP mentioned that none of his WiFi devices connect when the
intermittent problem is present. It would be helpful to know whether
the fault occurs simultaneously across all these devices.

The OP is evidently on holiday, and probably has a smarphone. He
probably has been taking pictures. Very likely his phone tries to
upload new pictures to the cloud, and given the pictures may be many
megabytes and the holiday location has a very slow rural internet
connection, it is quite likely that the internet connection is saturated
with upstream traffic. This will cause downstream traffic to be
severely restricted (because the handshake traffic will have to share
the limited upstream bandwidth with the pictures being uploaded). Since
ping is a low-priority packet that may also be dropped if the router is
busy with other traffic. This is just speculation, but in the absence
of any useful diagnostics it may explain the situation.

--
Graham J









  #6  
Old August 26th 18, 01:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 379
Default Intermittent "destination address unreachable" when pining router

"Graham J" wrote in message
news
NY wrote:
What router fault could cause wireless devices (laptop, phone)
intermittently to lose contact with the router (can't even ping the
gateway address - destination address unreachable), even though the
laptop believes that it is still connected when you click on the wireless
icon in the system tray. The wireless icon says "no internet connection"
but I don't think that means that the router has lost its WAN connection,
only that the laptop cannot talk to the router.

It's a router at a holiday cottage where we're staying, so it's not
possible simply to reboot the router.


I suspect you could turn all the power off at the meter, wait 10 secs, and
turn it all on. That ought to reboot the router unless it is located in a
different building, or has its own UPS.

The fault seems to clear itself after a few minutes - I'm not sure
whether anyone has to intervene or whether it rights itself
spontaneously.

There are no other wifi networks on the same or overlapping networks.
ipconfig reports a sensible IP address - ie not 169.x.x.x


Can you install inSSIDer from

https://www.metageek.com/products/inssider/free/

(or an equivalent product)?

That would show whether the WIFi signal is disappearing intermittently,
and may indicate whether there are other sources of radio interference.

Once your laptop has acquired a sensible address it is likely to keep it
until you tell it to drop and re-establish the WiFi connection, because as
far as your laptop is concerned the wireless interface thinks it is still
connected. By contrast if you had a wired connection and unplugged the
cable, your laptop would lose its IP address and might get a different one
when you reconnect the cable.


InSSIDer on laptop and on Android phone both show three SSIDs: two on the
same channel of 2.4 GHz and one on 5 GHz. The two usable SSIDs that accept
the WPA key that I've been given, both fail at the same time with the same
symptoms - if I'm connected to one and it drops out, the other will fal in
the same way.

I've tried setting a static IP, subnet and gateway to match those which the
router's DHCP hands out, and when the router has gone into funny mode, I
can't even ping the gateway with a static configuration.

It rights itself after a few minutes or an hour or so, though I'm not sure
whether any human intervention (eg power-cycling to reboot) is necessary.

When I first saw Windows say "no internet connection" I assumed that it was
the WAN that was dropping out (eg loss of ADSL sync or spontaneous logout
from ADSL) but when I found I couldn't even ping the router, I realised it
was a more fundamental problem. There may be other equipment (eg wifi
repeater, separate access point for holiday cottage to keep a guest network
separate from home use) so it may not be a simple router configuration.

  #7  
Old August 26th 18, 02:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 379
Default Intermittent "destination address unreachable" when pining router

"Graham J" wrote in message
news
To the OP: what does does the WiFi icon show? If you have Windows 7
please refer to:

https://www.home-network-help.com/network-icon.html

Specifically item 4. The "staircase" component indicates the signal
strength (very crudely). Anything less than 2 bars generally means the
signal strength is not enough for a reliable connection; however the icon
has to show no bars at all for several seconds before the connection
drops. Clearly Windows 7 cannot distinguish between "no connection to
router" and "no internet connection", but the OP can, and confirms that
his intermittent situation is "no connection to router".

Try
ping router-ip -t
... and note the response times. If they are consistent at about 50mS,
but at other times fail completely - this suggests the wifi component is
working ok and the fault lies elsewhere. If the reply times vary then the
wifi channel is inadequate in some way. There may be other sources of
interference - a microwave oven, for example.

The OP mentioned that none of his WiFi devices connect when the
intermittent problem is present. It would be helpful to know whether
the fault occurs simultaneously across all these devices.

The OP is evidently on holiday, and probably has a smarphone. He probably
has been taking pictures. Very likely his phone tries to upload new
pictures to the cloud, and given the pictures may be many megabytes and
the holiday location has a very slow rural internet connection, it is
quite likely that the internet connection is saturated with upstream
traffic. This will cause downstream traffic to be severely restricted
(because the handshake traffic will have to share the limited upstream
bandwidth with the pictures being uploaded). Since ping is a low-priority
packet that may also be dropped if the router is busy with other traffic.
This is just speculation, but in the absence of any useful diagnostics it
may explain the situation.



All devices (Windows 7 laptop and Android phone) fail and come back to life
at the same time.

The staircase icon typically shows 4 or 5 bars. During a failure, this is
overlaid with a yellow exclamation mark. . Hovering over the icon gives the
message "Identifying SSID / No internet access" - case 4 in
https://www.home-network-help.com/network-icon.html. The signal strength at
times of exclamation mark does not drop to 1 or 2 bars, and the icon doesn't
change to no-bars-and-star (Case 2).

I've had it happen when wifi on the phone is turned off, so the phone won't
at those times being trying to sync photos etc.

I'm tending to use the wifi that the cottage supplies when it works, and the
internet on my mobile phone, with the laptop tethered to it, when the
cottage internet fails - turning on tethering and turning off wifi at the
latter times. I want to keep the usage of my mobile broadband to a minimum
as it's fairly limited and costly to buy another 250 MB of data.

If I happen to see the guy that runs the cottage, I'll ask whether his own
internet in the house goes off at the same time as the one in the cottage
(ie is it a router problem or a wireless extender problem). I think an
extender is involved since the SSIDs are EXT2-BTHomeSpot-72G and
EXT5-BTHomeSpot-72G (2 or 5 for 2.4 or 5 GHz).

I'm reluctant to reveal too much knowledge or he may try to rope me in to
investigate, which would make it a busman's holiday!

  #8  
Old August 26th 18, 03:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 689
Default Intermittent "destination address unreachable" when pining router

NY wrote:

[snip]


InSSIDer on laptop and on Android phone both show three SSIDs: two on
the same channel of 2.4 GHz and one on 5 GHz. The two usable SSIDs that
accept the WPA key that I've been given, both fail at the same time with
the same symptoms - if I'm connected to one and it drops out, the other
will fal in the same way.


My point being that InSSIDer should show whether any or all of the
wireless signals disappears when you lose connection. Did you monitor
th signals while the connection is down?

I've tried setting a static IP, subnet and gateway to match those which
the router's DHCP hands out, and when the router has gone into funny
mode, I can't even ping the gateway with a static configuration.


So as I suggested it has nothing to do with the WiFi connection but
indicates that the IP tranffic isn't reaching the router.

It rights itself after a few minutes or an hour or so, though I'm not
sure whether any human intervention (eg power-cycling to reboot) is
necessary.

When I first saw Windows say "no internet connection" I assumed that it
was the WAN that was dropping out (eg loss of ADSL sync or spontaneous
logout from ADSL) but when I found I couldn't even ping the router, I
realised it was a more fundamental problem. There may be other equipment
(eg wifi repeater, separate access point for holiday cottage to keep a
guest network separate from home use) so it may not be a simple router
configuration.


When you run ping does that indicate a sudden and total loss of replies
coincident with the connection failures, with otherwise reliable
replies? Or are the ping replies generally intermittent and just get worse?

--
Graham J
  #9  
Old August 26th 18, 03:24 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 689
Default Intermittent "destination address unreachable" when pining router

NY wrote:

[snip]

If I happen to see the guy that runs the cottage, I'll ask whether his
own internet in the house goes off at the same time as the one in the
cottage (ie is it a router problem or a wireless extender problem). I
think an extender is involved since the SSIDs are EXT2-BTHomeSpot-72G
and EXT5-BTHomeSpot-72G (2 or 5 for 2.4 or 5 GHz).


So can you speculate - is the extender in the cottage, and the router in
another building? You could wander around the site with inSSIDer
running on your laptop - or more discreetly with a similar program
runing on your smartphone ...

I'm reluctant to reveal too much knowledge or he may try to rope me in
to investigate, which would make it a busman's holiday!


It may well be easier to solfe the problem than write about it in the
newsgroup!

And you may find that questioning the WiFi reliability may be on a par
with criticising somebody's driving - not taken well!!!

--
Graham J





  #10  
Old August 28th 18, 10:39 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 379
Default Intermittent "destination address unreachable" when pining router

"Graham J" wrote in message
news
NY wrote:

[snip]

If I happen to see the guy that runs the cottage, I'll ask whether his
own internet in the house goes off at the same time as the one in the
cottage (ie is it a router problem or a wireless extender problem). I
think an extender is involved since the SSIDs are EXT2-BTHomeSpot-72G and
EXT5-BTHomeSpot-72G (2 or 5 for 2.4 or 5 GHz).


So can you speculate - is the extender in the cottage, and the router in
another building? You could wander around the site with inSSIDer running
on your laptop - or more discreetly with a similar program runing on your
smartphone ...

I'm reluctant to reveal too much knowledge or he may try to rope me in to
investigate, which would make it a busman's holiday!


It may well be easier to solfe the problem than write about it in the
newsgroup!

And you may find that questioning the WiFi reliability may be on a par
with criticising somebody's driving - not taken well!!!


LOL. At least the owner did say "the internet connection is a bit
temperamental here". I assumed it would be intermittent loss of ADSL
connection and/or intermittently very slow sync / data transfer. But it
looks as if it's IP traffic even to router that it intermittent.

When the connection comes back again I'll set a continuous ping running and
see if ping time gradually increases until it fails totally.

Discovered that router (gateway address) is not password-protected (!) - I
browsed to it expecting to see at least make and model (BT Business
Smarthub) and got to screens where I could modify config or restart it or
whatever. Good thing I'm honest. Netscan scan of IP addresses in the subnet
shows an extender (BT Dual Band) which *is* password protected. I hope
they've configured router's DHCP so as to exclude extender's own IP from the
scope...

Can't find extender in cottage so it may be in owner's house which is right
next door - and maybe they use it to extend wifi even within house and not
just to reach cottage.

 




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