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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

High speed broadband to become a legal right



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 8th 18, 10:13 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 511
Default High speed broadband to become a legal right

On Mon, 8 Oct 2018 09:09:38 +0100, "NY" wrote:

Will people be able to go to any telecom company and demand high speed
broadband or will it be just BT who have to serve the unprofitable
users, as usual.


I presume, as now, you will be able to go to any telecom company and
demand high speed broadband and they will get Openreach to install it,
unless they already have their equipment in the exchange. Since the
cost cap will apply you may well not get it anyway.


Which means that the people who need it most (those that BT don't already
serve with a high-speed line) are the ones who won't be able to benefit from
the right.

And will the existence of a more expensive alternative (eg Virgin versus BT
OR) preclude you from asking BT OR (via your ISP) for a fast FTTC/VDSL
connection. Virgin is fine, but the cost is higher (though you may get a
higher speed), and you don't get the same benefit of bundled phone/internet
packages that your ISP may provide, and Virgin's call charges are higher
IIRC.


On the face of it, a legal right means a legal right, but for every
right there's an equal and opposite obligation, so they'll need to
sort that out as well. They'll also need to clarify all related rights
that anyone might have, or try to exert, such as the right of an ISP
to reject unprofitable customers. We'll see how it goes.

Rod.

---
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  #23  
Old October 8th 18, 02:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MB[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 204
Default High speed broadband to become a legal right

On 07/10/2018 23:17, Rodney Pont wrote:
I presume, as now, you will be able to go to any telecom company and
demand high speed broadband and they will get Openreach to install it,
unless they already have their equipment in the exchange. Since the
cost cap will apply you may well not get it anyway.


But who pays - Openreach (i.e. their other customers) themselves or
other rich telecom company who blame everything on BT but don't actually
put in any infrastructure.

  #24  
Old October 8th 18, 02:08 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MB[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 204
Default High speed broadband to become a legal right

On 08/10/2018 10:08, Tweed wrote:
I don't quite follow the difficulty for the rural hill farmer types. For
most of these locations their electricity supply comes in via overhead
wires on wooden poles. Why can't a fibre be added? It's not even as if it
is a conductor. The concentration seems to be on forcing BT to give up
access to its ducts and poles, maybe it's the local electricity
distribution networks we should be looking at. And before anyone says
you,can't possibly mix electricity and telecoms, they do it all over rural
France. We seem to have managed to have cracked the problem of rural
electrification when the country was much poorer, and there was little of
this attitude of “you live in the countryside what do you expect, why
should city dwellers subsidise you (contd page 94)”.


It was quite some time before some people got mains electricity. Also
if you ran a rural business or moved into a rural area then the
electricity company were not expected to provide you with you own 33KV
100KVA feed at no extra cost.

I suspect that rural France work to different safety standards.

  #25  
Old October 8th 18, 02:53 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Invalid
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 136
Default High speed broadband to become a legal right

In message , MB writes
On 08/10/2018 10:08, Tweed wrote:
I don't quite follow the difficulty for the rural hill farmer types. For
most of these locations their electricity supply comes in via overhead
wires on wooden poles. Why can't a fibre be added? It's not even as if it
is a conductor. The concentration seems to be on forcing BT to give up
access to its ducts and poles, maybe it's the local electricity
distribution networks we should be looking at. And before anyone says
you,can't possibly mix electricity and telecoms, they do it all over rural
France. We seem to have managed to have cracked the problem of rural
electrification when the country was much poorer, and there was little of
this attitude of “you live in the countryside what do you expect, why
should city dwellers subsidise you (contd page 94)”.


It was quite some time before some people got mains electricity. Also
if you ran a rural business or moved into a rural area then the
electricity company were not expected to provide you with you own 33KV
100KVA feed at no extra cost.

I suspect that rural France work to different safety standards.

In the village I live in ( Rural West Berks) the electricity
distribution system within the village is overhead 3 phase insulated
cables. The same poles also carry the overhead phone cabling.

The rules may be different for carrying telephone wires on 11kv feeders.
There are no telephone cables on the poles carrying the three 11kv
feeders to the village substations.
--
Invalid
  #26  
Old October 8th 18, 10:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tweed[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default High speed broadband to become a legal right

Invalid wrote:
In message , MB writes
On 08/10/2018 10:08, Tweed wrote:
I don't quite follow the difficulty for the rural hill farmer types. For
most of these locations their electricity supply comes in via overhead
wires on wooden poles. Why can't a fibre be added? It's not even as if it
is a conductor. The concentration seems to be on forcing BT to give up
access to its ducts and poles, maybe it's the local electricity
distribution networks we should be looking at. And before anyone says
you,can't possibly mix electricity and telecoms, they do it all over rural
France. We seem to have managed to have cracked the problem of rural
electrification when the country was much poorer, and there was little of
this attitude of “you live in the countryside what do you expect, why
should city dwellers subsidise you (contd page 94)”.


It was quite some time before some people got mains electricity. Also
if you ran a rural business or moved into a rural area then the
electricity company were not expected to provide you with you own 33KV
100KVA feed at no extra cost.

I suspect that rural France work to different safety standards.

In the village I live in ( Rural West Berks) the electricity
distribution system within the village is overhead 3 phase insulated
cables. The same poles also carry the overhead phone cabling.

The rules may be different for carrying telephone wires on 11kv feeders.
There are no telephone cables on the poles carrying the three 11kv
feeders to the village substations.


A) rural France doubtless has different safety standards, but casual
observation indicates that the average village is not ablaze, nor are
scores of electrocuted locals littering the place

B) National Grid were happy enough to wrap optical fibres around the earth
conductor on suoergrid pylons

C) Optical fibres do not conduct electricity. The only real safety issue is
making sure the distribution pole is turned off before working on it. The
procedures for doing this are well known by the people who work for the
distribution companies.

  #27  
Old October 9th 18, 08:45 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MB[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 204
Default High speed broadband to become a legal right

On 08/10/2018 22:19, Tweed wrote:
C) Optical fibres do not conduct electricity. The only real safety issue is
making sure the distribution pole is turned off before working on it. The
procedures for doing this are well known by the people who work for the
distribution companies.


So rather than one man and his van going out to fix a broadband line
fault or connect a new customer, they will now have to arrange
attendance of the power company to isolate their circuit which could be
at least one person (probably two) at each end as well as one or more
diesel generator to maintain supply to their own customers. All paid by
the broadband company.

From my experiences of some telecom company staff, I would not like
them messing around with power lines.
  #28  
Old October 9th 18, 03:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tweed[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default High speed broadband to become a legal right

MB wrote:
On 08/10/2018 22:19, Tweed wrote:
C) Optical fibres do not conduct electricity. The only real safety issue is
making sure the distribution pole is turned off before working on it. The
procedures for doing this are well known by the people who work for the
distribution companies.


So rather than one man and his van going out to fix a broadband line
fault or connect a new customer, they will now have to arrange
attendance of the power company to isolate their circuit which could be
at least one person (probably two) at each end as well as one or more
diesel generator to maintain supply to their own customers. All paid by
the broadband company.

From my experiences of some telecom company staff, I would not like
them messing around with power lines.


Make the provision of such lines a power company responsibility, just as
Openreach is for standard circuits. I'm not suggesting this is a solution
everywhere, but it's madness to say a rural farm can't have fast broadband
provision, when a set of sturdy poles bring in power already. Out in the
wilds it makes sense to do things differently.

  #29  
Old October 9th 18, 04:24 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Rodney Pont[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default High speed broadband to become a legal right

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 14:50:32 +0000 (UTC), Tweed wrote:

MB wrote:
On 08/10/2018 22:19, Tweed wrote:
C) Optical fibres do not conduct electricity. The only real safety issue is
making sure the distribution pole is turned off before working on it. The
procedures for doing this are well known by the people who work for the
distribution companies.


So rather than one man and his van going out to fix a broadband line
fault or connect a new customer, they will now have to arrange
attendance of the power company to isolate their circuit which could be
at least one person (probably two) at each end as well as one or more
diesel generator to maintain supply to their own customers. All paid by
the broadband company.

From my experiences of some telecom company staff, I would not like
them messing around with power lines.


Make the provision of such lines a power company responsibility, just as
Openreach is for standard circuits. I m not suggesting this is a solution
everywhere, but it s madness to say a rural farm can t have fast broadband
provision, when a set of sturdy poles bring in power already. Out in the
wilds it makes sense to do things differently.


Cost is still a big issue. They can't just use a roll of optical cable.
It needs to be strong enough to support itself between poles (although
maybe it could be hung from the power cable). It needs to be weather
proof and rated for outside use so I don't think the cable itself would
be cheap. Then you have to pay everyone to install it.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com


  #30  
Old October 9th 18, 04:53 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 689
Default High speed broadband to become a legal right

Rodney Pont wrote:

[snip]


Cost is still a big issue. They can't just use a roll of optical cable.
It needs to be strong enough to support itself between poles (although
maybe it could be hung from the power cable). It needs to be weather
proof and rated for outside use so I don't think the cable itself would
be cheap. Then you have to pay everyone to install it.


Openreach have just installed a couple of new green cabinets in our
village, one at the eastern edge and the other in the middle, about
1.2km apart.

The fibre arrives at the edge of the village underground, and goes into
the first cabinet. A second fibre continues overhead on existing phone
poles to the cabinet in the middle of the village. It is clearly
self-supporting. It's about 5mm diameter in black with a yellow stripe
along its length.

Interestingly, the fibre does not come from the local exchange but comes
directly from a bigger exchange further away. The local exchange is
served by a microwave dish, so maybe the FTTC service won't drop out
with every thunderstorm.

There were no previously existing cabinets for phone distribution, so at
the edge of the village some contractors dug a hole and installed a new
rectangular concrete manhole. From here two cables go to the green
cabinet. In the manhole the orgiginal cable was cut and two joint pods
installed, so the phone lines now run to and from the green cabinet.
Similarly for the cabinet in the centre of the village, but there the
new joint pods are tied onto a nearby pole.

I live just to the east of the central cabinet. So my phone line goes
about a km to the eastern cabinet. I've applied for FTTC (should be
upgraded on 16 October) and have been told I will only get about
29Mbits/sec download. Still, better than the 2.1Mbits/sec I currently
get from ADSL. I will let you know next week what I actually get.

--
Graham J
 




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