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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Dead line but working broadband



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 25th 19, 08:11 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Brian Gregory[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Dead line but working broadband

On 20/01/2019 19:28, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 18:55:15 +0000, Brian Gregory wrote:

Thanks for the replies, it was to be back up and running this morning,
so no idea what the problem was. Very strange.


Most likely a fault somewhere between the fibre cabinet and the
exchange. Things in the fibre cabinet or in the PCP can get accidentally
disturbed when Openreach are working on another line in the same cabinet(s).


The fibre cabinet to the exchange is only fibre, no voice. That still
goes to the old cabinet via copper so it's this line that's likely to
be the problem.


I think you misread fibre cabinet as fibre.

Without FTTC broadband the twisted pair from your home goes to your PCP
where it is connected to one pair in a multi twisted pair cable that
runs onward to the exchange.

When you get FTTC broadband the connection in the PCP is broken and
diverted via a short multi twisted pair cable to the nearby fibre
cabinet (typically no more than 20 yards away). Another twisted pair in
the short multi pair cable brings the phone only part of your line back
from the fibre cabinet and is joined in the PCP to your original pair in
the multi twisted pair cable that runs to the exchange.

A fault in either cabinet can stop the phone working while the broadband
continues perfectly.


I have had no voice but good ADSL though when my line
lost an argument with a tree. The ADSL just skipped the gap with not
noticable change in speed but the voice side was dead.


Yes that can happen too.

--

Brian Gregory (in England).
  #12  
Old January 26th 19, 10:33 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default Dead line but working broadband

Brian Gregory wrote:
On 20/01/2019 19:28, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 18:55:15 +0000, Brian Gregory wrote:

Thanks for the replies, it was to be back up and running this morning,
so no idea what the problem was. Very strange.


Most likely a fault somewhere between the fibre cabinet and the
exchange. Things in the fibre cabinet or in the PCP can get accidentally
disturbed when Openreach are working on another line in the same
cabinet(s).


The fibre cabinet to the exchange is only fibre, no voice. That still
goes to the old cabinet via copper so it's this line that's likely to
be the problem.


I think you misread fibre cabinet as fibre.

Without FTTC broadband the twisted pair from your home goes to your PCP
where it is connected to one pair in a multi twisted pair cable that
runs onward to the exchange.

When you get FTTC broadband the connection in the PCP is broken and
diverted via a short multi twisted pair cable to the nearby fibre
cabinet (typically no more than 20 yards away). Another twisted pair in
the short multi pair cable brings the phone only part of your line back
from the fibre cabinet and is joined in the PCP to your original pair in
the multi twisted pair cable that runs to the exchange.

A fault in either cabinet can stop the phone working while the broadband
continues perfectly.


I have had no voice but good ADSL though when my line
lost an argument with a tree. The ADSL just skipped the gap with no
noticable change in speed but the voice side was dead.


Yes that can happen too.


Round here the PCP (Primary Cross-Connection Point) and the Fibre
Cabinet are combined into one green box. A couple of these were
installed in the village last autumn. Before their installation the
twisted pairs ran directly to the exchange, a total of about 6km, so our
ADSL was treacly.

In both cases the new green cabinet was installed on the other side of
the road to the duct carrying the copper pairs. So a trench was dug
across the road, the existing multi-pair cable cut and joined to two
short runs of multi-pair cable crossing the road, and these cables
terminated in the PCP section of the green cabinet.

Behind a separate door inside the green cabinet there was another patch
frame for the fibre connections, and for those customers requiring FTTC
patch wires of less than a metre length ran from the PCP section to the
fibre section.

Yet another door gave access to the power supply section with a battery
and UPS.

At one location there were several multi-pair cables, and one of these
serving the middle part of the village was not cut and re-routed across
the road to the green cabinet. So when those customers wanted FTTC the
Openreach technician could not find their circuits on the PCP in the
green cabinet that his documentation said would be there. Endless
confusion while the poor technician stood in the rain shouting to the
person in the Indian support centre, for up to an hour at a time. It
was resolved after several months - I don't know whether the correct
cable was identified cut and rerouted, or whether one or two customers
were moved to an alternative copper pair from one of the cables that had
been installed correctly. The technicians I spoke to said that
incomplete wiring like this was in fact a fairly common fault!


--
Graham J
  #13  
Old January 27th 19, 09:50 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Brian Gregory[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Dead line but working broadband

On 25/01/2019 20:11, Brian Gregory wrote:
A fault in either cabinet can stop the phone working while the broadband
continues perfectly.


I think it's worth me adding to that to say that AIUI faults in PCP are
probably much more common because the PCP is opened and worked on by
engineers much more often.


--

Brian Gregory (in England).
  #14  
Old April 7th 19, 12:50 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Lucifer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Dead line but working broadband

On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 00:08:14 +0000, MissRiaElaine
wrote:

Picked up the phone to make a call earlier on and the line was totally
dead, no dial tone, nothing, even at the master socket.

Strange thing is, broadband is still working perfectly, no speed drop or
anything. I know that sometimes one leg of the line can become
disconnected, but when that's happened before I've had a significant
drop in speed.

Anyone got any ideas..? We are on FTTC with Sky and of course their
so-called "help" desk has gone home...


With FTTC the phone works through the Internet.
The phone needs to be connected to the modem.
It won't work if connected directly to the cable.
That should have been explained to you when you were switched
from ADSL.
  #15  
Old April 7th 19, 12:56 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Dead line but working broadband

On 07/04/2019 12:50, Lucifer wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 00:08:14 +0000, MissRiaElaine
wrote:

Picked up the phone to make a call earlier on and the line was totally
dead, no dial tone, nothing, even at the master socket.

Strange thing is, broadband is still working perfectly, no speed drop or
anything. I know that sometimes one leg of the line can become
disconnected, but when that's happened before I've had a significant
drop in speed.

Anyone got any ideas..? We are on FTTC with Sky and of course their
so-called "help" desk has gone home...


With FTTC the phone works through the Internet.


Completely wrong of course..

The phone needs to be connected to the modem.


Completely wrong of course

It won't work if connected directly to the cable.


Completely wrong of course.

That should have been explained to you when you were switched
from ADSL.

BT and ISPs are not noted for telling utter rubbish.

What happens is that copper goes to the cabinet, where IP traffic
(VDSL) is taken to to the DSLAM.

The copper than continues to the exhange. A break in this last leg will
kill phone traffic but not broadband.


--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.
  #16  
Old April 7th 19, 01:04 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Lucifer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Dead line but working broadband

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 20:11:52 +0000, Brian Gregory
wrote:

Without FTTC broadband the twisted pair from your home goes to your PCP
where it is connected to one pair in a multi twisted pair cable that
runs onward to the exchange.


That applies to FTTP, FTTB, FTTC, and the more common FTTN.

When you get FTTC broadband the connection in the PCP is broken and
diverted via a short multi twisted pair cable to the nearby fibre
cabinet (typically no more than 20 yards away). Another twisted pair in
the short multi pair cable brings the phone only part of your line back
from the fibre cabinet and is joined in the PCP to your original pair in
the multi twisted pair cable that runs to the exchange.


With Fibre To The Curb/Connection point, the phone is provided
via the same connection as the data. The original exchange is no
longer used.
  #17  
Old April 7th 19, 01:11 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Lucifer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Dead line but working broadband

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 10:33:45 +0000, Graham J
wrote:

Brian Gregory wrote:
On 20/01/2019 19:28, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 18:55:15 +0000, Brian Gregory wrote:

Thanks for the replies, it was to be back up and running this morning,
so no idea what the problem was. Very strange.


Most likely a fault somewhere between the fibre cabinet and the
exchange. Things in the fibre cabinet or in the PCP can get accidentally
disturbed when Openreach are working on another line in the same
cabinet(s).

The fibre cabinet to the exchange is only fibre, no voice. That still
goes to the old cabinet via copper so it's this line that's likely to
be the problem.


I think you misread fibre cabinet as fibre.

Without FTTC broadband the twisted pair from your home goes to your PCP
where it is connected to one pair in a multi twisted pair cable that
runs onward to the exchange.

When you get FTTC broadband the connection in the PCP is broken and
diverted via a short multi twisted pair cable to the nearby fibre
cabinet (typically no more than 20 yards away). Another twisted pair in
the short multi pair cable brings the phone only part of your line back
from the fibre cabinet and is joined in the PCP to your original pair in
the multi twisted pair cable that runs to the exchange.

A fault in either cabinet can stop the phone working while the broadband
continues perfectly.


I have had no voice but good ADSL though when my line
lost an argument with a tree. The ADSL just skipped the gap with no
noticable change in speed but the voice side was dead.


Yes that can happen too.


Round here the PCP (Primary Cross-Connection Point) and the Fibre
Cabinet are combined into one green box. A couple of these were
installed in the village last autumn. Before their installation the
twisted pairs ran directly to the exchange, a total of about 6km, so our
ADSL was treacly.

In both cases the new green cabinet was installed on the other side of
the road to the duct carrying the copper pairs. So a trench was dug
across the road, the existing multi-pair cable cut and joined to two
short runs of multi-pair cable crossing the road, and these cables
terminated in the PCP section of the green cabinet.

Behind a separate door inside the green cabinet there was another patch
frame for the fibre connections, and for those customers requiring FTTC
patch wires of less than a metre length ran from the PCP section to the
fibre section.

Yet another door gave access to the power supply section with a battery
and UPS.


Sounds like you are talking about FTTN. With FTTC the interface
between fibre and twisted pair is installed in an existing connection
point and powered from the customer. Hence no need for batteries.

FTTC = Fibre to the Curb. FTTN = Fibre to the Node.
  #18  
Old April 7th 19, 01:15 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Dead line but working broadband

On 07/04/2019 13:04, Lucifer wrote:
With Fibre To The Curb/Connection point, the phone is provided
via the same connection as the data. The original exchange is no
longer used.


There is no such service in the United Kingdom
FTTC is Fibre to the Cabinet.

Being replaced by FTTP = Fibre to the Premises.



Please note that these are UK specific newsgroups.


--
“The fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

- Bertrand Russell

  #19  
Old April 7th 19, 01:17 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default Dead line but working broadband

On 07/04/2019 13:11, Lucifer wrote:
Sounds like you are talking about FTTN. With FTTC the interface
between fibre and twisted pair is installed in an existing connection
point and powered from the customer. Hence no need for batteries.

FTTC = Fibre to the Curb. FTTN = Fibre to the Node.


Not in the UK

FTTC= Fibre to te Cabiunet and FTTP= Fibre to the premises.

Please don't spam UK newsgroups with information not correct for the UK



--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

  #20  
Old April 7th 19, 01:23 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 548
Default Dead line but working broadband

On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 21:50:20 +1000, Lucifer
wrote:

Picked up the phone to make a call earlier on and the line was totally
dead, no dial tone, nothing, even at the master socket.

Strange thing is, broadband is still working perfectly, no speed drop or
anything. I know that sometimes one leg of the line can become
disconnected, but when that's happened before I've had a significant
drop in speed.

Anyone got any ideas..? We are on FTTC with Sky and of course their
so-called "help" desk has gone home...


With FTTC the phone works through the Internet.
The phone needs to be connected to the modem.
It won't work if connected directly to the cable.
That should have been explained to you when you were switched
from ADSL.


Nope, they use the same cable, but the phone uses audio frequencies
and even lower frequencies for dialtone, while ADSL and VDSL use radio
frequencies.

In the right circumstances radio signals can travel many miles without
wires at all - that's how broadcasting works - so they often have
little trouble jumping across a break in a telephone cable. You may
not have all the frequencies of the ADSL/VDSL signal at the correct
amplitudes, so its performance may be worse than usual, but it will
still work. It may work well enough that you don't notice any
impairment straight away. It'll be a bad connection or an actual break
somewhere in the cable between the exchange and your modem.

Rod.

---
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https://www.avg.com

 




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