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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed. |
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#1
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![]() I asked some of these questions in another group (Demon Service) but realised the topic would probably be better discussed here, so apologies to anyone who has already replied elsewhere. In terms of providing new fibre broadband in rural areas served by Exchange Only (EO) lines, how is this actually done in regard to the infrastructure? Are two networks provided side-by-side: copper and fibre? My rural exchange has never had cabinets of any kind, just a few pillars and small (leaky) junction boxes hidden away here and there in the undergrowth in the road verges. However, two new green cabinets have recently appeared - one on the east side and one on the west of the exchange (both sited at road junctions - I guess that at some point further cabinets will radiate out from these first two and will be placed at suitably strategic points). The fact sheet on EO lines published by Digital Scotland suggests that *two* cabinets need to be provided and they must be very close to each other (a copper and a fibre cabinet), yet here only one cabinet has been placed in each location. I understand from documents lodged with the Council that these are "all-in-one PCP001 DSLAM" cabinets. Does this mean they contain equipment for both copper and fibre connections? Are they connected to each other and the exchange by duplicate fibre and copper cabling or is the existing copper system physically left in place as a sort of legacy network, while the new cabinets are connected to each other and back to the exchange solely by fibre (with only the last link to the premises using the original copper)? (1) Finally, does new fibre cabling *always* have to be underground and protected by ducting or can it be strung overhead using poles using some kind of reinforced protective outer sheathing? I thought fibre was meant to be a bit more delicate than conventional telephone cabling! I am just wondering how Openreach is going to connect the next planned cabinet to the recently installed one - the route is along a very narrow country road with hardly any verges. The existing light grey BT telephone cable is buried shallowly in the verge and occasionally gets exposed by careless workers and drivers of large agricultural vehicles. I'm not even sure how the newly installed cabinet was connected to the exchange. A duct was put in along the road verge for the electricity supply (which was taken from a nearby pole) and a new line of wooden poles was erected, which appears to be carrying a telephone cable to the cabinet. Could this be a fibre cable? Thanks, Rab (1) I had wondered whether, instead of running two networks side-by-side, would it be feasible for new fibre cabinets to be connected solely by fibre and contain some kind of throttling kit that limited the download/upload speeds for those premises opting to stick with the original ADSL copper connection? That would allow the existing legacy copper network to be abandoned, but perhaps this wouldn't work for various reasons. -- Rab Please use Reply-To: address Anything sent to From: address may not be received |
#2
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![]() Rab C wrote: In terms of providing new fibre broadband in rural areas served by Exchange Only (EO) lines, how is this actually done in regard to the infrastructure? Are two networks provided side-by-side: copper and fibre? They tend to place a cabinet somewhere very close to the exchange, the fibre will only run from the exchange to the cabinet, and it'll still be copper all the way from the cabinet to the home, so they only tend to do it where the distance allows better speeds than ADSL2+ Unless you're in an area where they're proposing FTTP rather than FTTC? |
#3
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![]() On 03/02/2019 15:53, Andy Burns wrote: Rab C wrote: In terms of providing new fibre broadband in rural areas served by Exchange Only (EO) lines, how is this actually done in regard to the infrastructure? Are two networks provided side-by-side: copper and fibre? They tend to place a cabinet somewhere very close to the exchange, the fibre will only run from the exchange to the cabinet, and it'll still be copper all the way from the cabinet to the home, so they only tend to do it where the distance allows better speeds than ADSL2+ No, that's not my understanding, at least up here in the wilds of Scotland. We're getting an FTTC cabinet, but it's going to be about 2.25 from my home, so not much help to me. AIUI, from talking to a man in the manhole next to it when I was walking past (but, at a guess, his accent was Eastern European, so I don't know how much he actually knows about the wider system beyond that encompassed by his job), what they're doing is putting a cabinet in by the houses nearest the exchange, which are about four miles from it, and then all the phone lines for the whole area will be diverted through that cabinet - as they already have been to go through the nearest cabinet in the local town itself, which lends credence to what the man said. |
#4
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![]() Rab C wrote: In terms of providing new fibre broadband in rural areas served by Exchange Only (EO) lines, how is this actually done in regard to the infrastructure? Are two networks provided side-by-side: copper and fibre? They install a cabinet (or cabinets - Inverness just gained eight cabinets outside the exchange, presumably for this reason). The copper lines go through the cabinet, just as if the cabinet had always been there, and connect to a fibre cabinet. The fibre and copper don't have to take the same route, or even go back to the same exchange. My rural exchange has never had cabinets of any kind, just a few pillars and small (leaky) junction boxes hidden away here and there in the undergrowth in the road verges. However, two new green cabinets have recently appeared - one on the east side and one on the west of the exchange (both sited at road junctions - I guess that at some point further cabinets will radiate out from these first two and will be placed at suitably strategic points). Probably not - which means that if you're too far from the cabinet you'll not get FTTC and you'll have to wait for FTTP. I'm in this situation - the EO lines have been re-routed through a cabinet, but I'm too far from the cabinet to get VDSL from it. The fact sheet on EO lines published by Digital Scotland suggests that *two* cabinets need to be provided and they must be very close to each other (a copper and a fibre cabinet), yet here only one cabinet has been placed in each location. I understand from documents lodged with the Council that these are "all-in-one PCP001 DSLAM" cabinets. Does this mean they contain equipment for both copper and fibre connections? Are they connected to each other and the exchange by duplicate fibre and copper cabling or is the existing copper system physically left in place as a sort of legacy network, while the new cabinets are connected to each other and back to the exchange solely by fibre (with only the last link to the premises using the original copper)? (1) BT call these "onesies", and it's effectively two semi-detached cabinets, copper in one side and fibre in the other. All cabinets have a copper connection back to the exchange for the voice line - the fibre cabinet just adds the VDSL. Although it would be possible to have the voice line originate in the cabinet, current BT equipment doesn't do that. Finally, does new fibre cabling *always* have to be underground and protected by ducting or can it be strung overhead using poles using some kind of reinforced protective outer sheathing? I thought fibre was meant to be a bit more delicate than conventional telephone cabling! Nope, overhead fibre exists, as does armoured fibre that can be buried without a duct. While the fibres are delicate, they're wrapped up in several layers of protection whether underground or overhead. Mike |
#5
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![]() Java Jive wrote: Andy Burns wrote: They tend to place a cabinet somewhere very close to the exchange No, that's not my understanding, at least up here in the wilds of Scotland. They installed cabinets right outside the exchange gates for the EO premises here, at the time they fibre upgraded the other cabinets. https://goo.gl/maps/YHfc2gjQ3K12 I suppose if the EO premises are distant from the exchange, they could plant the cabinet nearer the "centre" of the premises, rather than the exchange. |
#6
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![]() Rab C wrote: [snip] From experience last autumn in our village, which is about 5km from the nearest exchange, and 3.5km from an existing green cabinet at a road junction. So these are not EO lines, but they might as well be since there were no cabinets in the village - until ... .... Openreach (or rather, contractors working for Openreach) installed two new cabinets (others here have described them as "onesies"), one in the centre of the village, and one at the eastern end - the direction the cables take towards the exchange. In each case these cabinets are on the opposite side of the road to the existing cabling. At the eastern end the cables run through an underground chamber; while in the centre of the village the cables are overhead on poles. At the eastern end the contractors dug a trench and installed a duct across the road from the camber to the new cabinet. Then cut a couple of the multi-pair cables and joined the cut ends to new multi-pair cables crossing the road where they terminated in the new cabinet. My ADSL service came via this route, and it was down for about 15 minutes when the cables were extended to the cabinet A fibre cable arrives in this eastern cabinet. I'm told it comes directly from a much larger exchange further away. Probably a good thing because I suspect the local exchange gets all its voice and internet connectivity by microwave link. I applied for FTTC and the connection was down for about 5 minutes for the changeover. I live about 1km from this cabinet and see about 28Mbits/sec download speed. Ironically the cabinet in the centre of the village is only about 100 metres west of my house, but since my copper pair doesn't go that way I don't get the benefit of the 80Mbits/sec servcie. In the centre of the village similar ducts carry cables to the cabinet but the joins were made in the plastic housings frequently seen on telephone poles. The fibre that arrives at this cabinet is carried most of the way through the village on poles together with the small cables carrying the voice service to the various houses. It looks like a 4-pair copper cable but the black exterior has a yellow stripe, and those poles that support the fibre cable have tiny labels saying "Fibre overhead". Hope this helps ... -- Graham J |
#7
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![]() On 03/02/2019 16:33, Andy Burns wrote: Java Jive wrote: Andy Burns wrote: They tend to place a cabinet somewhere very close to the exchange No, that's not my understanding, at least up here in the wilds of Scotland. He is right - at least in regions where the original exchange is in a sensible place so that it serves a local community. They installed cabinets right outside the exchange gates for the EO premises here, at the time they fibre upgraded the other cabinets. https://goo.gl/maps/YHfc2gjQ3K12 And at my exchange - unfortunately they put it on the wrong side of the exchange from me which makes it further from me than the exchange! I suppose if the EO premises are distant from the exchange, they could plant the cabinet nearer the "centre" of the premises, rather than the exchange. Although usually the exchange is close to the centre of gravity of the largest community and they have had to suffer Openreach upgrade vans. They may install others near to the centres of other nearby villages iff mains power and sufficient potential customers are available. Only those who take VDSL get routed through the new cabinet and if experience around here is anything to go by on old copper it is a bit of a lottery for performance if you are more than 1km from the cabinet. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
#8
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![]() On 05/02/2019 20:34, Martin Brown wrote: On 03/02/2019 16:33, Andy Burns wrote: Java Jive wrote: Andy Burns wrote: They tend to place a cabinet somewhere very close to the exchange No, that's not my understanding, at least up here in the wilds of Scotland. He is right - at least in regions where the original exchange is in a sensible place so that it serves a local community. He may be right sometimes, but so am I sometimes. The Lairg Exchange is situated sensibly in Church Hill Rd in the centre of Lairg. Formerly this whole outlying area of Shinness between 4 and 8 miles out from the exchange was on EO lines, but since the FTTC rollout I've been connected to cabinet 4, at the corner of Manse Rd, which is the nearest cabinet to me, even though I am way too far out to get FTTC. And when the new cabinet about 2.25 miles away comes online, I think there's every chance that I'll be connected to that. |
#9
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![]() On 05/02/2019 21:21, Java Jive wrote: On 05/02/2019 20:34, Martin Brown wrote: On 03/02/2019 16:33, Andy Burns wrote: Java Jive wrote: Andy Burns wrote: They tend to place a cabinet somewhere very close to the exchange No, that's not my understanding, at least up here in the wilds of Scotland. He is right - at least in regions where the original exchange is in a sensible place so that it serves a local community. He may be right sometimes, but so am I sometimes.* The Lairg Exchange is situated sensibly in Church Hill Rd in the centre of Lairg.* Formerly this whole outlying area of Shinness between 4 and 8 miles out from the exchange was on EO lines, but since the FTTC rollout I've been connected to cabinet 4, at the corner of Manse Rd, which is the nearest cabinet to me, even though I am way too far out to get FTTC.* And when the new cabinet about 2.25 miles away comes online, I think there's every chance that I'll be connected to that. It is rather unusual for them to do *any* unnecessary work when installing an FTTC out in the wilds. They usually leave all the EO lines and existing ADSL cabinet circuits well alone and only swap the people who have opted for the new faster VDSL service through the new box. Even then their original copper circuit tends to be left in place for POTS. Only the high speed data is routed over the fibre link. I fed a few local numbers into BT Broadband line checker to see if anything had changed around here. http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/ The odd one has improved by getting VDSL but there is still a dichotomy between those on VDSL and those on ADSL and EO lines still persist over a wide range of numbers. It might be because anything they disturb in these old junction boxes breaks one circuit for every four they try to work on so that they really try very hard to do as little as possible. One curiosity is that in the zone served by VDSL a new line has appeared in the facilities available at that location claiming FTTP on demand with status available downstream 330M up 30M. Then the first line immediately after the table says "FTTP is not available". I put put one of my friends up to enquiring if it is really available. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
#10
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![]() Martin Brown wrote: One curiosity is that in the zone served by VDSL a new line has appeared in the facilities available at that location claiming FTTP on demand with status available downstream 330M up 30M. Then the first line immediately after the table says "FTTP is not available". FTTP On Demand is "available" almost anywhere. The challenge is finding an ISP prepared to order it (very few, none of the big names) and the cost (if you have to ask you can't afford it). FTTP is available very few places so far. However where it is available most ISPs can provide it, and the cost is not vastly more than VDSL. Mike |
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