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How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 5th 19, 01:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Bartram
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

On 05/02/2019 08:42, Chris Green wrote:


Has anyone else got a neat solution for providing named access to
systems and devices on a small LAN?



If possible, add them as hosts in the router setup. Run the DHCP and DNS
there too, for ease, IME.

If not, on a very small LAN, hosts files.

If you want to get more complicated, run DNS on the Pi (bind is not hard
to set up), add them as hosts in that, and make sure DHCP specifies the
Pi as the DNS server. Set your ISP's DNS as a forwarder on the Pi. I've
run that setup myself when my router couldn't do local hosts, but then I
flashed my router with OpenWRT.
  #12  
Old February 5th 19, 02:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 419
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

On 05/02/2019 08:42, Chris Green wrote:
As mentioned in another thread I'm having problems managing DNS on my
LAN. This is more of a rant than a question but I'd still quite like
to know how other people manage things.

I have Plusnet FTTC (irrelevant to the current issue) and a Draytek
2860n router connecting our NAT'ed LAN to it. There are quite a few
'things' which I need to connect to at times on the LAN:-

Desktop PC
Laptop PC
Printer
Backup machine
Gigaset base station
Draytek router
Second router used as Access Point

So, I have been using dnsmasq running on a Raspberry Pi (another
system I need to get to!) to provide local DHCP and DNS. This has
worked well in the main *except* that domestic ADSL/VDSL routers often
have bugs which prevent them working properly when they are not
providing DHCP/DNS themselves. In particular I went through the
default Plusnet router, a couple of D-Link ones and a tp-link one
before getting the Draytek which (mostly) works when its DHCP is
turned off.

The question in the subject is - how do people just using the default
ADSL/VDSL router setup cope with connecting to other things on their
LAN? Do they just remember the numeric IP address and leave it at
that? With three or four machines *from* which I may want to connect
and eight or so things to connect *to* this apprach is getting on for
unmanageable in my case. Are there any other ways to do it?

Getting back to my current problem, I've been having rather strange
issues with DNS and DHCP especially when 'roaming' around the house
with my laptop so I decided to remove the Raspberry Pi running dnsmasq
and turn the Draytek's DHCP/DNS back on. Then try and use Draytek's
'LAN DNS' facility which is supposed to allow you to create up to 20
DNS names for systems on the LAN - it's a complete can of worms! I
think it's not playing nicely with systemd's DNS but I'm not quite
sure yet. Grrrrrrrr!!!!!!

Has anyone else got a neat solution for providing named access to
systems and devices on a small LAN?


[Normally I wish people would snip the OP before just tagging a reply on
the end, but here it is nearly all relevant to what I'm about to write]

Yes, I hate to dish the dirt on such a well regarded firm as DrayTek,
but when it comes to local DNS their routers are a pile of ****e. They
seem to have been designed, and not very well tested, for corporations
running their own DHCP/DNS servers, yet are often used in SOHo
environments where such expense/trouble cannot be justified, but when
set up to supply local DHCP, they do not supply fully functional local
DNS. In the past I have written to them complaining about this, but I
don't think I ever even got an acknowledgement!

What is needed is a make of router that at least* ...

:-) When supplying local DHCP, by default also acts as a local DNS
server answering requests for machines on the LAN, and relaying *only*
non-local requests on up to the ISP's DNS servers.

:-) When not supplying local DHCP, does not try itself to pass stuff up
to the ISP, but obviously must allow requests from the DNS server that
is presumed to be present on the LAN.

DrayTeks seem to fail on both counts.

* Actually, AIUI, the Refs say nothing about linking DHCP and DNS in
this way - it is perfectly permissible to have local DHCP and
non-local DNS, and vice versa - it's just that it is standard practice
that where DHCP is supplied, DNS is assumed to be also, so any router
that doesn't follow this convention by default is likely to make life
unnecessarily difficult for its owner. Which means, AFAIAA, almost
every goddamned SOHo router on the market!

To actually try to answer your question, my solution was to put a cable
router, a Cisco LinkSys WRT320n, running a DD-WRT custom build with
dnsmasq between the LAN and the router connecting to the outside world,
a DrayTek 2830n.

However, many people have complained that this line of Ciscos do not
give good WiFi coverage, although I have wondered whether that is simply
because they do not have external antennae, because I've never had a
problem with them. What I'm trying to say really is that the model of
intermediate router probably does not matter, as long as it can run a
DD-WRT or Open-WRT build.

However, that Cisco WRT320n box has now died, so now I'm back to
connecting directly to the DrayTek, with all the attendant problems that
you describe above.

My least favourite manifestation is that I have another Cisco LinkSys
WRT320n configured as a WiFi client bridge between my bedroom and the
rest of the LAN, connected to which is a QNAP NMP-1000 media player.
When connected via WiFi to the Cisco, there was no problem with this
arrangement, but now that it is connected to the DrayTek, the QNAP
cannot access the internet, therefore it can't pick up the right time,
therefore ssh doesn't work (at least I *think* that's why it doesn't),
and therefore I have to use telnet to control it remotely.

One thing that does help is that the DrayTek is fairly easy to set up to
give fixed IPs from its DHCP range - via the LHS menu it's LAN, Bind
IP to MAC - and I've used this to give my servers fixed and memorable
IPs, based on their MACs.

Can anyone recommend a cable-type router that I can buy in the UK
cheaply and/or second-hand to replace the dead Cisco, preferably one
known to take well to a DD-WRT or Open-WRT build, and also that's easy
to connect a serial cable to if I manage to brick it (for the Cisco I
had once to use a soldering iron, which was a real fag).
  #13  
Old February 5th 19, 02:54 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tweed[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 71
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

Chris Green wrote:
As mentioned in another thread I'm having problems managing DNS on my
LAN. This is more of a rant than a question but I'd still quite like
to know how other people manage things.

I have Plusnet FTTC (irrelevant to the current issue) and a Draytek
2860n router connecting our NAT'ed LAN to it. There are quite a few
'things' which I need to connect to at times on the LAN:-

Desktop PC
Laptop PC
Printer
Backup machine
Gigaset base station
Draytek router
Second router used as Access Point

So, I have been using dnsmasq running on a Raspberry Pi (another
system I need to get to!) to provide local DHCP and DNS. This has
worked well in the main *except* that domestic ADSL/VDSL routers often
have bugs which prevent them working properly when they are not
providing DHCP/DNS themselves. In particular I went through the
default Plusnet router, a couple of D-Link ones and a tp-link one
before getting the Draytek which (mostly) works when its DHCP is
turned off.

The question in the subject is - how do people just using the default
ADSL/VDSL router setup cope with connecting to other things on their
LAN? Do they just remember the numeric IP address and leave it at
that? With three or four machines *from* which I may want to connect
and eight or so things to connect *to* this apprach is getting on for
unmanageable in my case. Are there any other ways to do it?

Getting back to my current problem, I've been having rather strange
issues with DNS and DHCP especially when 'roaming' around the house
with my laptop so I decided to remove the Raspberry Pi running dnsmasq
and turn the Draytek's DHCP/DNS back on. Then try and use Draytek's
'LAN DNS' facility which is supposed to allow you to create up to 20
DNS names for systems on the LAN - it's a complete can of worms! I
think it's not playing nicely with systemd's DNS but I'm not quite
sure yet. Grrrrrrrr!!!!!!

Has anyone else got a neat solution for providing named access to
systems and devices on a small LAN?



I've done it in two different ways, but not with your particular router.

1) set the router dhcp scope to start at x.x.x.10 and use 1-9 for
statically allocated addresses, and just remember them, as you mentioned.

2) set address reservations within the dhcp server, so that the same
address is always served to the “fixed” machines. So pseudo static
addressing. If the router is also the dns server as well as the dhcp server
it usually makes entries into the dns, so you reference by name as well as
IP address.

  #14  
Old February 5th 19, 02:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Paul Welsh[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

On 05/02/2019 13:09, Java Jive wrote:


Can anyone recommend a cable-type router that I can buy in the UK
cheaply and/or second-hand to replace the dead Cisco, preferably one
known to take well to a DD-WRT or Open-WRT build, and also that's easy
to connect a serial cable to if I manage to brick it (for the Cisco I
had once to use a soldering iron, which was a real fag).


Also consider Tomato (easy web interface and very stable) or pfSense.
  #15  
Old February 5th 19, 03:24 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 11:39:46 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

The question in the subject is - how do people just using the default
ADSL/VDSL router setup cope with connecting to other things on their
LAN?

I suspect most "normal" people just leave the ISP's router set for
whatever DHCP range comes out of the box with forwarding to the ISP's
DNS servers ... and reboot the router if/when anything stops working.

People here may be a little different ... I run dnsmasq (on the HH5a
with openWRT) and forward to external DNS (currently cloudflare 1.x.x.1
but sometimes google 8.8.x.x or plusnet's own)

I set DHCP to give out addresses above 192.168.1.100, leaving those
below 100 for manual assignment (or static leases) with corresponding
hostname entries for about a dozen local devices, so all devices use
internal DNS from the router, which refers externally.


So you do almost exactly the same as I (used to) do except that you have
dnsmasq running on your router rather than on a separate system.
Thus you don't have the issue I think I *may* have of my router not
working perfectly with an external (to it) DHCP/DNS server.


I think you said you had a Draytek. I use a 2860, and use a completely
separate DHCP server. Don't know if that helps.


That's what I was doing (I may switch back to doing it), the DHCP/DNS
server was dnsmasq running on a Raspberry Pi at 192.168.1.2 with the
Draytek 2860n at 192.168.1.1.

My problem was (when running a separate DHCP/DNS server) that
sometimes (quite frequently enough to be very annoying) DHCP seemed to
fail, especially when wandering around the house from one WiFi
connection to another. I found that other makes of router (TP-Link
and Zyxel) were *very* buggy with external DHCP so was wondering if
Draytek was suffering from similar issues. Thus I have been trying to
get the Draytek to do DHCP/DNS and using its 'LAN DNS' facility to
give names to devices on the LAN.

--
Chris Green

  #16  
Old February 5th 19, 03:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

Nick Leverton wrote:
In article , Chris Green wrote:
As mentioned in another thread I'm having problems managing DNS on my
LAN. This is more of a rant than a question but I'd still quite like
to know how other people manage things.

I have Plusnet FTTC (irrelevant to the current issue) and a Draytek
2860n router connecting our NAT'ed LAN to it. There are quite a few
'things' which I need to connect to at times on the LAN:-


...snips...

So, I have been using dnsmasq running on a Raspberry Pi (another
system I need to get to!) to provide local DHCP and DNS. This has
worked well in the main *except* that domestic ADSL/VDSL routers often
have bugs which prevent them working properly when they are not
providing DHCP/DNS themselves. In particular I went through the
default Plusnet router, a couple of D-Link ones and a tp-link one
before getting the Draytek which (mostly) works when its DHCP is
turned off.


What sort of problems do you experience ? I've run a similar setup
although using ISC DHCP for many years and never had a router which didn't
cope with it, whether ISP supplied or third party and regardless of DNS
server software. Make sure DHCP is turned off on the router and that
there is exactly one DHCP server on your network, and it All Just Works.
Oh and make sure the Pi is directly attached to the router, you don't
need wireless problems and delays when a device is trying to get an IP
address !

The problem is that sometimes when I wander around the house with my
laptop and try to change from one SSID to another, DHCP fails
completely when I reconnect. I.e. I get a strong WiFi connection but
no IP address (and thus no connectivity). If I turn WiFi off (or the
laptop off) for several minutes then on turning on again everything
works perfectly but just a reset isn't long enough to clear the issue.
It's as if the DHCP server is ignoring the request because it thinks I
already have an IP, or something in between is doing similar. There's
seems to be some sort of timeout that clears things down.

This only seems to be an issue when moving from one WiFi source to
another, we have a big house and there's a WiFi access point as well
as the 2860n.

The TP-link and Zyxel routers simply didn't pass DHCP broadcast
requests from their WiFi connections to the wired LAN (and thus the
Raspberry Pi running dnsmasq). It was the firewall on the TP-Link
which caused the problem, if the firewall was completely disabled it
worked perfectly!

--
Chris Green

  #17  
Old February 5th 19, 03:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 357
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

Chris Green wrote:

nowhere near as nice as my own dnsmasq DHCP/DNS
server. It's just that the router doesn't seem to play nicely with
that set up.


Can't think why the router should get upset because of some function it
*isn't* performing ...
  #18  
Old February 5th 19, 03:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

Chris Bartram wrote:
On 05/02/2019 08:42, Chris Green wrote:


Has anyone else got a neat solution for providing named access to
systems and devices on a small LAN?


If possible, add them as hosts in the router setup. Run the DHCP and DNS
there too, for ease, IME.

I've not seen a router in the last many years that offers the ability
to set host *names*. Yes, most offer the ability to give hosts fixed
IP addresses but not names.

If not, on a very small LAN, hosts files.

If you want to get more complicated, run DNS on the Pi (bind is not hard
to set up), add them as hosts in that, and make sure DHCP specifies the
Pi as the DNS server. Set your ISP's DNS as a forwarder on the Pi. I've
run that setup myself when my router couldn't do local hosts, but then I
flashed my router with OpenWRT.


That's exactly what I was doing until a day or two ago, I obviously
didn't make that very clear in my original posting. I'm trying
alternative approaches to try and overcome the 'no DHCP response'
issue I'm seeing when 'WiFi roaming' around the house.


--
Chris Green

  #19  
Old February 5th 19, 03:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

Tweed wrote:

2) set address reservations within the dhcp server, so that the same
address is always served to the “fixed” machines. So pseudo static
addressing. If the router is also the dns server as well as the dhcp server
it usually makes entries into the dns, so you reference by name as well as
IP address.

Where do people find these wonderful routers that "usually makes
entries into the dns", I don't think I've ever come across a router
that does this, at least not in the sub 500 sort of one. ... and I
have used quite a lot in my time:-

BT Hubs and Plusnet Hubs of various numbers
Loads of TP-link ones, I actually quite like TP-link for bog-standard function
Zyxel
Thompson
Tenda
... and more I'm sure.


--
Chris Green

  #20  
Old February 5th 19, 04:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Adrian Caspersz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

On 05/02/2019 14:45, Chris Green wrote:
Tweed wrote:

2) set address reservations within the dhcp server, so that the same
address is always served to the “fixed” machines. So pseudo static
addressing. If the router is also the dns server as well as the dhcp server
it usually makes entries into the dns, so you reference by name as well as
IP address.

Where do people find these wonderful routers that "usually makes
entries into the dns", I don't think I've ever come across a router
that does this, at least not in the sub 500 sort of one. ... and I
have used quite a lot in my time:-

BT Hubs and Plusnet Hubs of various numbers
Loads of TP-link ones, I actually quite like TP-link for bog-standard function
Zyxel
Thompson
Tenda
... and more I'm sure.


Thompson TG582

dns server config domain=me.com
dns server host add name=servername addr=192.168.1.1
saveall

--
Adrian C
 




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