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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Mobile broadband question (and oddity)



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 15th 19, 08:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY
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Posts: 492
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

"MissRiaElaine" wrote in message
...
On 15/04/2019 08:43, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2019 19:12:52 +0100, Peter
wrote:

The problem is that nearly all PAYG SIMs nowadays get killed after 90
days of non use. This is a problem with a laptop in which you use that
feature only rarely. I have been doing this for years (travelling
quite a lot) and it has proved to be a PITA.


I discovered this not long ago when I checked my emergency phone and
found that it didn't work. It's a good thing I didn't discover it in
an actual emergency, or it could have been a bit more than a PITA. Now
that I know about it I can deal with it with a calendar reminder to
make a brief call every 12 weeks, but I'm surprised it's actually
legal for a company to take your money and then not provide what
you've paid for.


Ah, but you supposedly read the 'terms and conditions' when you signed
up...


If the needs of the consumer were out before anything else, it would not be
legal to make such terms and conditions, even if you notified people of them
in advance...

  #22  
Old April 15th 19, 09:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris
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Posts: 577
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

Peter wrote:

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote

P&G SIM's for mobiles last for ages, and only require a chargeable call
every three or six months. OTOH they usually will get cut off if you tether.

OTOH P&G SIMs for laptops usually require a regular top up to keep them
alive and get cut off as above for non use.


How can they tell you are tethering?


This is old news. There has been a ruling that ISPs are not allowed to
differentiate between data and phone SIMs. Tethering is now acceptable for
all Sims.


  #23  
Old April 16th 19, 10:48 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 193
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

On 14/04/2019 19:12, Peter wrote:

The problem is that nearly all PAYG SIMs nowadays get killed after 90
days of non use. This is a problem with a laptop in which you use that
feature only rarely. I have been doing this for years (travelling
quite a lot) and it has proved to be a PITA.


Some Three & EE PAYG SIMs are good for 12/24 months with 12GB or 24GB of
prepaid data. They are probably best bought when on offer on Amazon and
you sometimes need heavy data usage away from ADSL or Wifi. eg

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Mobil...dp/B01M3VJ2B2/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/EE-PAYG-Car...dp/B013EBUPMO/

Read the small print carefully some PAYG SIMs with the same capacity do
time out after 30 or 90 days.

You might have to do something chargeable every 3 or 6 months to keep
them alive and you lose any data still on it when it expires. The clock
starts ticking from the time of first use. EE requires activation too.

Prices vary remarkably with time. EE was at one point half the Three
price per GB. They are at present much more similar pricing.

So one looks at contract SIMs and I use a Voda data SIM for about 9 a
month. This has something like 1GB allowance and works everywhere I
have been. Voda have a good network and lots of roaming agreements.


That seems a little expensive for what you get. Though Vodafone is the
only network that some of my friends can get a signal from.

My EE phone contract deal is 5.5GB for 5 (plus free texts and 200
minutes). Three is on the other phone which is 11 for 4GB/month and
unlimited mins. One or other usually has signal even in North Yorkshire.
Three contract has the advantage of overseas "feel at home".

These days I only use PAYG SIMs for Mifi broadband when all my other
options for tethering data have run out - which is very rare.

However all this is getting sidelines by the large data allowances on
phone SIMs. I am on Voda on my phone and get 5GB/month for about 17.
So I just use the phone as a hotspot for the laptop.


I have a feeling they are a bit awkward about tethering PAYG SIMs (or
rather they used to be - laws about data only SIMs have changed).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #24  
Old April 16th 19, 11:36 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
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Posts: 560
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 20:37:26 +0100, "NY" wrote:

The problem is that nearly all PAYG SIMs nowadays get killed after 90
days of non use. This is a problem with a laptop in which you use that
feature only rarely. I have been doing this for years (travelling
quite a lot) and it has proved to be a PITA.

I discovered this not long ago when I checked my emergency phone and
found that it didn't work. It's a good thing I didn't discover it in
an actual emergency, or it could have been a bit more than a PITA. Now
that I know about it I can deal with it with a calendar reminder to
make a brief call every 12 weeks, but I'm surprised it's actually
legal for a company to take your money and then not provide what
you've paid for.


Ah, but you supposedly read the 'terms and conditions' when you signed
up...


If the needs of the consumer were out before anything else, it would not be
legal to make such terms and conditions, even if you notified people of them
in advance...


It doesn't seem to me to need a consideration of anything special like
"consumer rights", just a fundamental understanding of basic honesty.
It ought to be understood that if you offer something in exchange for
money it should be safe to assume that you will provide it. This
should apply to any transaction, but is particularly important in the
case of something that a person might keep for an emergency.

We need some laws that overrule any individual "terms and conditions"
that somebody might write in the hope of escape from an obligation.
The principle of this is already understood elsewhere; you could not,
for example, write a legal contract that said you could kill a
customer who failed to pay up (not yet in the UK at any rate) because
this is already forbidden by the law of the land. If it works in that
instance it could work just the same for any contract. It just needs
a legal recognition that a promise is a promise and you can't get out
of it by means of weasel words.

Rod.

---
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  #25  
Old April 16th 19, 11:37 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
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Posts: 97
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

Martin Brown wrote:
On 14/04/2019 19:12, Peter wrote:

The problem is that nearly all PAYG SIMs nowadays get killed after 90
days of non use. This is a problem with a laptop in which you use that
feature only rarely. I have been doing this for years (travelling
quite a lot) and it has proved to be a PITA.


[snip]

I see the Dartford Crossing is now applying a similar timeout to their
accounts. From:

https://www.dartford-crossing-charge.service.gov.uk/Content/PDF/Dart_Charge_Terms_and_Conditions.pdf

"9. Inactive Accounts
If you do not use your Account for a period of more than 12 consecutive
months then we will write to you to inform you of your non-use (the
Non-use Letter) and if you do not recommence using the Account within 90
days of the date of the Non-use Letter, we may close your Account and
cancel any Tag linked to your Account".

So for an occasional user like myself the PAYG arrangement of a toll
booth was a much better option. I'm happy to use an account and leave
it in credit. But the convenience of this is negated by the apparent
need to schedule an annual trip via the Dartford crossing.




--
Graham J
  #26  
Old April 16th 19, 12:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MissRiaElaine[_2_]
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Posts: 214
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

On 16/04/2019 11:37, Graham J wrote:

So for an occasional user like myself the PAYG arrangement of a toll
booth was a much better option.* I'm happy to use an account and leave
it in credit.* But the convenience of this is negated by the apparent
need to schedule an annual trip via the Dartford crossing.


Cancelling an account for non-use is all very well, but they should
refund any unused credit, not just keep it. That is tantamount to
stealing in my book.



--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]
  #27  
Old April 16th 19, 01:29 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tim+[_2_]
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Posts: 160
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 16/04/2019 11:37, Graham J wrote:

So for an occasional user like myself the PAYG arrangement of a toll
booth was a much better option.* I'm happy to use an account and leave
it in credit.* But the convenience of this is negated by the apparent
need to schedule an annual trip via the Dartford crossing.


Cancelling an account for non-use is all very well, but they should
refund any unused credit, not just keep it. That is tantamount to
stealing in my book.


Playing Devil's advocate, I guess ISPs would say that it was your choice
not to use it, but importantly you had the CAPACITY to use it (until it was
cancelled). Providing that capacity costs ISPs money. It's analogous to
paying line rental on a land line.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls
  #28  
Old April 16th 19, 01:30 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bob Eager[_5_]
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Posts: 48
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 11:37:42 +0100, Graham J wrote:

I see the Dartford Crossing is now applying a similar timeout to their
accounts. From:


  #29  
Old April 16th 19, 01:39 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
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Posts: 560
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 11:37:42 +0100, Graham J
wrote:

I see the Dartford Crossing is now applying a similar timeout to their
accounts. From:

https://www.dartford-crossing-charge.service.gov.uk/Content/PDF/Dart_Charge_Terms_and_Conditions.pdf

"9. Inactive Accounts
If you do not use your Account for a period of more than 12 consecutive
months then we will write to you to inform you of your non-use (the
Non-use Letter) and if you do not recommence using the Account within 90
days of the date of the Non-use Letter, we may close your Account and
cancel any Tag linked to your Account".


Interesting. On checking the T&C on the Merseyflow website (which
deals with automatic tolls for Mersey bridge crossings) I see that
their wording is almost verbatim except that they only wait for a
further 30 days to close the account.

If you cross without a prepay sticker you only have 24 hours to pay
online, which seems a ridiculously short time to me, because if you do
buy a prepay sticker, they're perfectly happy to take your money weeks
in advance. There have been stories in the local press of people being
caught out by this and being saddled with huge fines that escalate if
they're not paid on time. Apparently the problem is even more acute
with the Dartford bridge as many people crossing it will be on their
way to the continent for their holidays and thus may not have access
to online facilities for some time. I often feel that modern life is a
gauntlet of bureacratic hurdles designed for the convenience of the
big companies while they claim to be providing things for ours.

Rod.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

  #30  
Old April 16th 19, 02:59 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 749
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

On Tue 16/04/2019 13:39, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 11:37:42 +0100, Graham J
wrote:

I see the Dartford Crossing is now applying a similar timeout to their
accounts. From:

https://www.dartford-crossing-charge.service.gov.uk/Content/PDF/Dart_Charge_Terms_and_Conditions.pdf

"9. Inactive Accounts
If you do not use your Account for a period of more than 12 consecutive
months then we will write to you to inform you of your non-use (the
Non-use Letter) and if you do not recommence using the Account within 90
days of the date of the Non-use Letter, we may close your Account and
cancel any Tag linked to your Account".


Interesting. On checking the T&C on the Merseyflow website (which
deals with automatic tolls for Mersey bridge crossings) I see that
their wording is almost verbatim except that they only wait for a
further 30 days to close the account.

If you cross without a prepay sticker you only have 24 hours to pay
online, which seems a ridiculously short time to me, because if you do
buy a prepay sticker, they're perfectly happy to take your money weeks
in advance. There have been stories in the local press of people being
caught out by this and being saddled with huge fines that escalate if
they're not paid on time. Apparently the problem is even more acute
with the Dartford bridge as many people crossing it will be on their
way to the continent for their holidays and thus may not have access
to online facilities for some time. I often feel that modern life is a
gauntlet of bureacratic hurdles designed for the convenience of the
big companies while they claim to be providing things for ours.


I was of the understanding that it can also be paid at any Payzone
although I can't see any reference to it in the T&C save that somehow
you are supposed to be able to pay by cash?

Due to domestic issues and illness we haven't be abroad for about three
years so my account has been sitting in credit. If you don't use the
account for 12 months +90 days do I loose that money - it is unclear.
What about the (admittedly small amount of) interest they have earned on
my account credit over three years - does that get forgotten?


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
 




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