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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Someone's "stolen" our line pair ;-)



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 7th 19, 10:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Someone's "stolen" our line pair ;-)



"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 07/06/2019 17:06, NY wrote:
We've just moved into a new house. We ordered phone/broadband from our
ISP (Plusnet) yesterday and the BT Openreach engineer came this morning
to set everything up -



Set what up exactly ? There are no engineer visits for ADSL or VDSL
provision these days (and certainly not for any PlusNet provided service)
You already have a master socket installed ?


I too thought that provision of VDSL needed no engineer visit, but the
engineer who came said that it was normal when a previous customer had had
VDSL and then ceased the service because they were moving, for an engineer
to attend when the new people (us) ordered VDSL. Apparently they revert the
line to ADSL (no broadband/voice split at the cabinet) when the previous
people cease, and then split it back again for the new VDSL order. Seems a
lot of hard work: better to only do the work if the new people order ADSL.

As it happens, the engineer couldn't find a definitive master socket,
despite testing various sockets around the house. He wondered whether the
"master socket" might actually have been close to where the drop wire is
anchored to the house (in a *very* inaccessible location!!!). He saw that
the wire that comes into the house and daisy-chains from a socket there to
the ones in the rest if the house, used *white* (internal) cable rather than
black drop cable, and so surmised that there was a junction box between drop
cable and cable to the first (but not, in this case, master) socket.

There is talk that when then lack of a pair between the cabinet and the
exchange has been resolved, he may need to fit a proper master socket and
resolve old-style star-connected wiring, maybe by running a brand-new cable
to the socket in my study where I'll have the router. Whether he'll then be
able to connect wiring onwards from the removable faceplate to the rest of
the sockets in the house is debateable... Luckily I *think* there's good
DECT coverage with the base station/answerphone in the study, for handsets
in the rest of the house to get reception.

  #12  
Old June 7th 19, 10:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Someone's "stolen" our line pair ;-)

"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
On 07/06/2019 17:47, NY wrote:

It's frustrating at present having to switch my PC between two wifi
networks: a private one to the router and all the other computers in the
house, and the other created by tethering from my mobile phone's internet
when I need to "go public".


If you have the right equipment you can get round that ...

+ Your main router has a WAN ethernet port

+ You have a spare router which either is already or could be configured
as a client-bridge.

You configure the client-bridge to connect to your phone's WiFi tethering,
and connect one of its LAN ports to the WAN port of your router, and
configure your router to use the WAN port as a backup for when there is no
connection on the ADSL port.


Ah, does "client bridge" (or similar wording) mean "access point", so you
can connect a router in bridge mode as an access point to a wifi network
that has internet access? I wondered whether something like that was
possible. I do have a spare router (Netgear DG834PN) so I'll see if it can
do bridge mode. My router (TPlink 9980) has a WAN Ethernet socket (*), but
I'll have to research how to make it use that socket instead of (or as a
fall-back for) the ADSL/VDSL socket.


(*) One of the four LAN Ethernet sockets is labelled "LAN/WAN".

  #13  
Old June 7th 19, 10:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Someone's "stolen" our line pair ;-)

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 21:58:41 +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

On 07/06/2019 21:30, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 17:45:01 +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

On 07/06/2019 17:06, NY wrote:
We've just moved into a new house. We ordered phone/broadband from
our ISP (Plusnet) yesterday and the BT Openreach engineer came this
morning to set everything up -


Set what up exactly ? There are no engineer visits for ADSL or VDSL
provision these days (and certainly not for any PlusNet provided
service) You already have a master socket installed ?

It's a new house.


Oh, it's *new* as in, just built, now I get it...


MY assumption could have been equally faulty, I now realise!


It is. "New" is a very confusing term. It's new to us, but it's not
new-build - indeed parts of it date back to the 1850s. Did I refer to "the
previous occupants" in my original post? I may have done, but then again I
may not.

  #14  
Old June 7th 19, 11:35 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 483
Default Someone's "stolen" our line pair ;-)

On 07/06/2019 22:36, NY wrote:
"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
On 07/06/2019 17:47, NY wrote:

It's frustrating at present having to switch my PC between two wifi
networks: a private one to the router and all the other computers in
the house, and the other created by tethering from my mobile phone's
internet when I need to "go public".


If you have the right equipment you can get round that ...

+ Your main router has a WAN ethernet port

+ You have a spare router which either is already or could be
configured as a client-bridge.

You configure the client-bridge to connect to your phone's WiFi
tethering, and connect one of its LAN ports to the WAN port of your
router, and configure your router to use the WAN port as a backup for
when there is no connection on the ADSL port.


Ah, does "client bridge" (or similar wording) mean "access point",


Not really - I'm probably oversimplifying here, but ...

Access Point: A WiFi unit connected to your router via a *cable*
Client Bridge: A WiFi unit connected to your router via *WiFi* - in
other words, it replaces a length of cable whe
:-( A cable would not be feasible, such as across a street.
:-( There is no ethernet port on the WiFi source,
as with a phone or tablet.

I have two Cisco LinkSys WRT320Ns flashed with DD-WRT builds that enable
me to configure them as client-bridges. One is constantly in use, and
links my bedside to my router, because it would be too inconvenient to
run a cable up there, the other is a standby that can be used as I
originally described, to connect to my tablet-phone if my router's 4G
USB stick should go down.

so
you can connect a router in bridge mode as an access point to a wifi
network that has internet access?


Yes, but IMO it's best thought of as simply a replacement for a length
of cable.

I wondered whether something like that
was possible. I do have a spare router (Netgear DG834PN) so I'll see if
it can do bridge mode.


The trouble with most SOHo routers is that only the most commonly used
configurations get adequately tested, and consequently when you try and
do something unusual that nevertheless is supposed to be supported, it
often turns out to be supported badly or actually not at all due to some
bug. Therefore, you may have to put an alternative firmware build on
it, but DD-WRT apparently doesn't support it, and Open-WRT supports it
very poorly; the only other choice I know of is Tomato, but I only know
*of* it, I don't know anything at all about it, including whether or not
is supports that router.

My router (TPlink 9980) has a WAN Ethernet socket
(*), but I'll have to research how to make it use that socket instead of
(or as a fall-back for) the ADSL/VDSL socket.


(*) One of the four LAN Ethernet sockets is labelled "LAN/WAN".


That's one of the conditions met.

  #15  
Old June 8th 19, 08:16 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 750
Default Someone's "stolen" our line pair ;-)

On Fri 07/06/2019 22:36, NY wrote:
"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
On 07/06/2019 17:47, NY wrote:

It's frustrating at present having to switch my PC between two wifi
networks: a private one to the router and all the other computers in
the house, and the other created by tethering from my mobile phone's
internet when I need to "go public".


If you have the right equipment you can get round that ...

+ Your main router has a WAN ethernet port

+ You have a spare router which either is already or could be
configured as a client-bridge.

You configure the client-bridge to connect to your phone's WiFi
tethering, and connect one of its LAN ports to the WAN port of your
router, and configure your router to use the WAN port as a backup for
when there is no connection on the ADSL port.


Ah, does "client bridge" (or similar wording) mean "access point", so
you can connect a router in bridge mode as an access point to a wifi
network that has internet access? I wondered whether something like that
was possible. I do have a spare router (Netgear DG834PN) so I'll see if
it can do bridge mode. My router (TPlink 9980) has a WAN Ethernet socket
(*), but I'll have to research how to make it use that socket instead of
(or as a fall-back for) the ADSL/VDSL socket.


(*) One of the four LAN Ethernet sockets is labelled "LAN/WAN".


On almost all routers the four sockets on the back are a switch in their
own right with wifi connection. That is how I manage to use a BTHH5 as a
wireless access point - just turn off the DHCP.

With TPL (at least with mine) you have to select whether it is working
in ADSL or DSL mode - if the latter then the LAN/WAN socket works as WAN.

--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
  #16  
Old June 10th 19, 09:28 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Someone's "stolen" our line pair ;-)

On 07/06/2019 22:31, NY wrote:


"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 07/06/2019 17:06, NY wrote:
We've just moved into a new house. We ordered phone/broadband from
our ISP (Plusnet) yesterday and the BT Openreach engineer came this
morning to set everything up -



Set what up exactly ? There are no engineer visits for ADSL or VDSL
provision these days (and certainly not for any PlusNet provided
service) You already have a master socket installed ?


I too thought that provision of VDSL needed no engineer visit, but the
engineer who came said that it was normal when a previous customer had
had VDSL and then ceased the service because they were moving, for an
engineer to attend when the new people (us) ordered VDSL. Apparently
they revert the line to ADSL (no broadband/voice split at the cabinet)
when the previous people cease, and then split it back again for the new
VDSL order. Seems a lot of hard work: better to only do the work if the
new people order ADSL.

As it happens, the engineer couldn't find a definitive master socket,
despite testing various sockets around the house. He wondered whether
the "master socket" might actually have been close to where the drop
wire is anchored to the house (in a *very* inaccessible location!!!). He


My master socket is conveniently located in the loft on the gable end
wall where the drop wire comes in from the pole. My loft is boarded now.
It made sense to the engineer who installed it there...

In places where line pairs are like hens teeth they can usually find you
one by DACSing some grannies although in my village they have finally
given up and put a new copper cable in as the old one had basically
rotted away in the ground due to ingress of water into it.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #17  
Old June 10th 19, 09:56 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Someone's "stolen" our line pair ;-)

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
In places where line pairs are like hens teeth they can usually find you
one by DACSing some grannies although in my village they have finally
given up and put a new copper cable in as the old one had basically rotted
away in the ground due to ingress of water into it.


Ah, do BT still use DACS to multiplex two consumer lines over one line-pair?
I thought they were a thing of the past, like party lines, since ADSL and
VDSL came along.

  #18  
Old June 10th 19, 10:25 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Someone's "stolen" our line pair ;-)

On 10/06/2019 09:56, NY wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...


In places where line pairs are like hens teeth they can usually find
you one by DACSing some grannies although in my village they have
finally given up and put a new copper cable in as the old one had
basically rotted away in the ground due to ingress of water into it.


Ah, do BT still use DACS to multiplex two consumer lines over one
line-pair? I thought they were a thing of the past, like party lines,
since ADSL and VDSL came along.


Round here they still use it to free up real copper for ADSL circuits.

Anything to avoid putting in new wiring - new rules mean that they
cannot just do a very narrow slit trench and bury with wire any more -
they have to dig a proper trench with a conduit pipe at the bottom.

They chose to do it just as my roadside daffodils were in flower.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #19  
Old June 10th 19, 11:02 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 750
Default Someone's "stolen" our line pair ;-)

On Mon 10/06/2019 10:25, Martin Brown wrote:
On 10/06/2019 09:56, NY wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...


In places where line pairs are like hens teeth they can usually find
you one by DACSing some grannies although in my village they have
finally given up and put a new copper cable in as the old one had
basically rotted away in the ground due to ingress of water into it.


Ah, do BT still use DACS to multiplex two consumer lines over one
line-pair? I thought they were a thing of the past, like party lines,
since ADSL and VDSL came along.


Round here they still use it to free up real copper for ADSL circuits.

Anything to avoid putting in new wiring - new rules mean that they
cannot just do a very narrow slit trench and bury with wire any more -
they have to dig a proper trench with a conduit pipe at the bottom.

They chose to do it just as my roadside daffodils were in flower.


Does that indicate that they had the wind up about HMG decreeing a while
ago that speech circuits would be moved entirely to (in effect) VoIP by
(was it?) 2025 which means that every customer has to have a broadband
connection and the implication of that is that it will be either FTTP or
FTTC. Enforce utilisation of ducts now rather then burying a cable -
even if you use H&S as the 'reason' - you are half way there.

Ah, or course that will mean the duct is the wrong colour - missed that!

--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
  #20  
Old June 10th 19, 01:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 483
Default Someone's "stolen" our line pair ;-)

On 10/06/2019 11:02, Woody wrote:

Anything to avoid putting in new wiring - new rules mean that they
cannot just do a very narrow slit trench and bury with wire any more -
they have to dig a proper trench with a conduit pipe at the bottom.

They chose to do it just as my roadside daffodils were in flower.


Does that indicate that they had the wind up about HMG decreeing a while
ago that speech circuits would be moved entirely to (in effect) VoIP by
(was it?) 2025 which means that every customer has to have a broadband
connection and the implication of that is that it will be either FTTP or
FTTC. Enforce utilisation of ducts now rather then burying a cable -
even if you use H&S as the 'reason' - you are half way there.

Ah, or course that will mean the duct is the wrong colour - missed that!


Apparently not in Scotland?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48486473

"New code of practice to limit road works disruption

New rules are being introduced in a bid to limit disruption from road
works caused by utility firms.

In future, trenches dug in roads and pavements will have to be narrower
- and then filled in quicker."
 




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