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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

BT broadband issues



 
 
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  #101  
Old July 2nd 19, 08:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default BT broadband issues

R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Tuesday, 2 July 2019 15:21:36 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 14:34:42 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 02/07/2019 13:52, Recliner wrote:
is up

Trim your logs to just show the lines containing "PPPoE".

There appears to be something very odd with the uplink sync speed and
its completely crazy signal to noise ratios it is getting back.

I sometimes see a quirk like that when the modem has got itself into a
strange state that can only be cured by power cycling the modem itself.
Have you tried cycling the power (to all components including the PC)?


It happens regularly anyway. I power down the PC every night,

Ah but do you?

Since Windows 10 you have to type "Shutdown /s" into command line to achieve full shutdown.


It's not drawing any power, and boots from the bios the next time. It's a
workstation, not a laptop.


  #102  
Old July 2nd 19, 09:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 200
Default BT broadband issues

On 01/07/2019 20:25, Woody wrote:
On Mon 01/07/2019 19:51, Recliner wrote:


I agree, this is obviously intro pricing that's not sustainable in the
long
run. I think BT FTTP is coming my way soon (but not soon enough for
me), so
Hyperoptic is probably trying to sign up as many people as possible
first.
Most people will probably stick with their current ISP if it's
offering to
upgrade them to FTTP, so Hyperoptic needs to move fast to capitalise
on its
early mover advantage.

Your 4G reception is quite poor. On which SP? It may be significanty
better with a different SP.


Assuming that there is any or borderline for a mobile phone indoors the
addition of a yagi antenna will get you a full speed 4G link if you use
one of the Hauwei E5573s-320 pebbles which accept 2 external antennae.
eg.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00U7POBOE/

I got one for working when all other internet connections had failed.

Pointing is quite critical you need them on a tripod with a pan tilt
head. The only limitation then is time gating rather than signal
strength whereby a node that is more than about 30 miles away will
ignore you because the round trip time is too long.

My brother-in-law and his wife live in rural North Wales. I think she is
on EE and he is on VF and both have poor signals - let alone 4G - across
the area. There is only one cell site that serves the village and it is
on O2 which puts a stonking signal (4G) into where they live. Ergo how
does the OP know there is not a better signal from another provider in
his area?


It is always worth a look on the various coverage maps.

Though they can be misleading sometimes where valleys are concerned.
SIMS can be had for a very nominal cost for testing (sometimes free).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #103  
Old July 3rd 19, 11:13 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 614
Default BT broadband issues

On Tuesday, 2 July 2019 20:16:51 UTC+1, Woody wrote:
On Tue 02/07/2019 19:07, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Tuesday, 2 July 2019 15:21:36 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 14:34:42 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 02/07/2019 13:52, Recliner wrote:
is up

Trim your logs to just show the lines containing "PPPoE".

There appears to be something very odd with the uplink sync speed and
its completely crazy signal to noise ratios it is getting back.

I sometimes see a quirk like that when the modem has got itself into a
strange state that can only be cured by power cycling the modem itself.
Have you tried cycling the power (to all components including the PC)?

It happens regularly anyway. I power down the PC every night,

Ah but do you?

Since Windows 10 you have to type "Shutdown /s" into command line to achieve full shutdown.

[snip]

Not if you switch the mains off


at the wall

you don't!


Although to be fair on my PC the same effect as shutdown / s is achieved by pressing and holding the power button, however in both cases there is still some auxiliary power to keep things in the PC alive, although unlike the other levels it will not wake itself, nor resume from where it was suspended.

On mine one gets various levels: -

Display off - computer still runs, but at lower clock rate.

Sleep - RAM is maintained so computer can resume quickly.

Hibernate - RAM is saved off so computer can resume (still runs BIOS start up)

W10 soft off - After selecting shutdown button - computer can wake to do updates. User must restart, but can wake from keyboard.

W10 hard off - entered by "shutdown /s" or after update. User must restart using power button. Pre W10 this was shutdown behaviour.

Off - power switched off at wall - usually also at inlet.

My [older] net book / lap top obviously does not have power off at wall, although I suppose you could completely flatten the battery (effects unknown), nor does it have the W10 soft off and never wakes itself.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


  #104  
Old July 3rd 19, 11:24 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default BT broadband issues

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 03:13:22 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

On Tuesday, 2 July 2019 20:16:51 UTC+1, Woody wrote:
On Tue 02/07/2019 19:07, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Tuesday, 2 July 2019 15:21:36 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 14:34:42 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 02/07/2019 13:52, Recliner wrote:
is up

Trim your logs to just show the lines containing "PPPoE".

There appears to be something very odd with the uplink sync speed and
its completely crazy signal to noise ratios it is getting back.

I sometimes see a quirk like that when the modem has got itself into a
strange state that can only be cured by power cycling the modem itself.
Have you tried cycling the power (to all components including the PC)?

It happens regularly anyway. I power down the PC every night,
Ah but do you?

Since Windows 10 you have to type "Shutdown /s" into command line to achieve full shutdown.

[snip]

Not if you switch the mains off


at the wall

you don't!


Although to be fair on my PC the same effect as shutdown / s is achieved by pressing and holding the power button, however in both cases there is still some auxiliary power to keep things in the PC alive, although unlike the other levels it will not wake itself, nor resume from where it was suspended.

On mine one gets various levels: -


I only get three options: Sleep/Shut down/Restart


Display off - computer still runs, but at lower clock rate.

Sleep - RAM is maintained so computer can resume quickly.

Hibernate - RAM is saved off so computer can resume (still runs BIOS start up)

W10 soft off - After selecting shutdown button - computer can wake to do updates. User must restart, but can wake from keyboard.

W10 hard off - entered by "shutdown /s" or after update. User must restart using power button. Pre W10 this was shutdown behaviour.


I'm pretty sure this hard off is what my Win 10 Pro box does whenever
it shuts down. Although there is still power to the box, it can only
be restarted by pressing the power button. No fans or disks are
spinning.



Off - power switched off at wall - usually also at inlet.

My [older] net book / lap top obviously does not have power off at wall, although I suppose you could completely flatten the battery (effects unknown), nor does it have the W10 soft off and never wakes itself.

  #105  
Old July 3rd 19, 11:34 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 614
Default BT broadband issues

On Wednesday, 3 July 2019 11:24:46 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 03:13:22 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

On Tuesday, 2 July 2019 20:16:51 UTC+1, Woody wrote:
On Tue 02/07/2019 19:07, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Tuesday, 2 July 2019 15:21:36 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 14:34:42 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 02/07/2019 13:52, Recliner wrote:
is up

Trim your logs to just show the lines containing "PPPoE".

There appears to be something very odd with the uplink sync speed and
its completely crazy signal to noise ratios it is getting back.

I sometimes see a quirk like that when the modem has got itself into a
strange state that can only be cured by power cycling the modem itself.
Have you tried cycling the power (to all components including the PC)?

It happens regularly anyway. I power down the PC every night,
Ah but do you?

Since Windows 10 you have to type "Shutdown /s" into command line to achieve full shutdown.

[snip]

Not if you switch the mains off


at the wall

you don't!


Although to be fair on my PC the same effect as shutdown / s is achieved by pressing and holding the power button, however in both cases there is still some auxiliary power to keep things in the PC alive, although unlike the other levels it will not wake itself, nor resume from where it was suspended.

On mine one gets various levels: -


I only get three options: Sleep/Shut down/Restart


I think which are available are determined by your hardware and BIOS. Which Windows uses changed between 8.1[Pro] and 10[Pro].



Display off - computer still runs, but at lower clock rate.

Sleep - RAM is maintained so computer can resume quickly.

Hibernate - RAM is saved off so computer can resume (still runs BIOS start up)

W10 soft off - After selecting shutdown button - computer can wake to do updates. User must restart, but can wake from keyboard.

W10 hard off - entered by "shutdown /s" or after update. User must restart using power button. Pre W10 this was shutdown behaviour.


I'm pretty sure this hard off is what my Win 10 Pro box does whenever
it shuts down. Although there is still power to the box, it can only
be restarted by pressing the power button. No fans or disks are
spinning.


As on my lap top.




Off - power switched off at wall - usually also at inlet.

My [older] net book / lap top obviously does not have power off at wall, although I suppose you could completely flatten the battery (effects unknown), nor does it have the W10 soft off and never wakes itself.


  #106  
Old July 3rd 19, 11:36 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default BT broadband issues

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 11:59 +0100 (BST), (Angus
Robertson - Magenta Systems Ltd) wrote:

Ah, that I didn't know. But it's no worse than using BT+Openreach
now.


In theory it is better, because fibre leased lines have a much higher standard
of service than FTTC which is a mix of copper and fibre. Broadband issues are
often caused by engineers connecting new customers and accidentally
interrupting earlier customers, even using the same copper wires...

Should also have mentioned Hyperoptic use carrier grade NAT like most mobile
broadband suppliers, which means your IP address changes by the minute. This
may cause trouble with some sites that think you are moving around the country
and those that need a fixed IP address like gaming.

VM cable is less likely to be disturbed and speeds are much more reliable than
VDSL, I have both, but VDSL is from a business supplier, not BT, with much
cheaper line rental.


I've been doing more research into Hyperoptic, and now realise that,
strictly speaking, it's not FTTP: it's really FTTB (Fibre To The
Building). In other words, the gigabit optical fibre goes to a service
area in the building, where there is a terminator and master router,
from which Ethernet cables are run to subscribers' flats. So the
customers don't get their own individual fibres.

The installation fee includes running this surface-mounted cable to a
socket located inside the property, near the front door and next to a
power socket. The free install only includes a 10 metre cable; if the
socket is to be in another room or further away, there is an extra
charge, starting at 30.
  #107  
Old July 3rd 19, 11:38 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default BT broadband issues

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 03:34:23 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

On Wednesday, 3 July 2019 11:24:46 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 03:13:22 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

On Tuesday, 2 July 2019 20:16:51 UTC+1, Woody wrote:
On Tue 02/07/2019 19:07, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Tuesday, 2 July 2019 15:21:36 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 14:34:42 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 02/07/2019 13:52, Recliner wrote:
is up

Trim your logs to just show the lines containing "PPPoE".

There appears to be something very odd with the uplink sync speed and
its completely crazy signal to noise ratios it is getting back.

I sometimes see a quirk like that when the modem has got itself into a
strange state that can only be cured by power cycling the modem itself.
Have you tried cycling the power (to all components including the PC)?

It happens regularly anyway. I power down the PC every night,
Ah but do you?

Since Windows 10 you have to type "Shutdown /s" into command line to achieve full shutdown.

[snip]

Not if you switch the mains off

at the wall

you don't!


Although to be fair on my PC the same effect as shutdown / s is achieved by pressing and holding the power button, however in both cases there is still some auxiliary power to keep things in the PC alive, although unlike the other levels it will not wake itself, nor resume from where it was suspended.

On mine one gets various levels: -


I only get three options: Sleep/Shut down/Restart


I think which are available are determined by your hardware and BIOS. Which Windows uses changed between 8.1[Pro] and 10[Pro].


Yes, I guess so. I went straight from 7 Pro to 10 Pro, on different
hardware. My Win 10 workstation boots very quickly, so I never use
Sleep mode.
  #108  
Old July 3rd 19, 11:56 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default BT broadband issues

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 17:27:27 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Recliner wrote:

Is it accessible via the HH5 router? Or do you need to connect directly to
it?


I think you need to hack the HG612 (assuming that's what it is) to get
line stats from it

https://kitz.co.uk/routers/hg612unlock.htm

likewise you have to put openWRT (not for the faint-hearted) onto the
HH5a if you want to get line stats direct from the router without using
the modem - this from my HH5a

Line State: UP [0x0]
Line Mode: G.993.2 (VDSL2)
Line Uptime: 49d 3h 28m 53s
Annex: B
Profile: 17a
Data Rate: 79.521 Mb/s / 19.999 Mb/s
Max. Attainable Data Rate (ATTNDR): 79.892 Mb/s / 26.467 Mb/s
Latency: 0.18 ms / 0.0 ms
Line Attenuation (LATN): 10.8 dB / 12.0 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATN): 10.9 dB / 12.3 dB
Noise Margin (SNR): 6.0 dB / 14.9 dB
Aggregate Transmit Power(ACTATP): -1.6 dB / 14.1 dB
Forward Error Correction Seconds (FECS): 0 / 51142
Errored seconds (ES): 0 / 71306
Severely Errored Seconds (SES): 0 / 3613
Loss of Signal Seconds (LOSS): 3 / 2
Unavailable Seconds (UAS): 267 / 267
Header Error Code Errors (HEC): 0 / 0
Non Pre-emtive CRC errors (CRC_P): 1 / 0
Pre-emtive CRC errors (CRCP_P): 0 / 0
ATU-C System Vendor ID: Broadcom 164.140
Power Management Mode: L0 - Synchronized



I think my modem is a different model, the ECI B-Focus:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnbullas/sets/72157647247392454/
  #109  
Old July 3rd 19, 12:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default BT broadband issues

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 11:17:48 +0100, Graham J
wrote:

Recliner wrote:

[snip]


The bizarre thing with my fault is that the Openreach engineers find no
faults on the line. And yet I get frequent dropouts, and consequently a
lower synch speed. And the upload speed is dramatically bad, much worse
than I got on ADSL2.


The frequent dropouts will lead to the DLM adjusting the line
performance downwards, perhaps dramatically so. It follows that until
the dropouts issue is fixed it isn't necessarily possible to get
improved performance.

Even if all the copper wire between you and the green cabinet is
replaced, and all the joints remade, it is still possible that there may
be interference (from a farmer's electric fence, or an RAF radar
station, for example) which prevents reliable operation.

Which is all rather worrying for the time when BT replace all analog
phones with VoIP, since in general broadband services are not as
reliable as the underlying analog phone system. Clearly with FTTP it
might be practical to guarantee better reliability. For example the
Customer Premises Equipment could be continually monitored remotely, so
a technician could be dispatched to resolve a problem before the
customer becomes aware of the issue.


Here's almost 24 hours worth of my log, showing only the PPPoE
records. There were 12 drops:

11:43:50, 03 Jul. (342761.900000) PPPoE is up -? Down
Rate=30879Kbps, Up Rate=376Kbps; SNR Margin Down=4.9dB, Up=4.1dB
11:42:01, 03 Jul. (342653.690000) PPPoE is down after 194
minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 -?
Down)]
08:27:43, 03 Jul. (330995.420000) PPPoE is up -? Down
Rate=43600Kbps, Up Rate=464Kbps; SNR Margin Down=5.4dB, Up=3.5dB
08:26:16, 03 Jul. (330908.390000) PPPoE is down after 131
minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 -?
Down)]
06:14:59, 03 Jul. (323031.100000) PPPoE is up -? Down
Rate=43947Kbps, Up Rate=667Kbps; SNR Margin Down=6.9dB, Up=5.6dB
06:12:26, 03 Jul. (322877.900000) PPPoE is down after 7 minutes
uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 -? Down)]
06:04:46, 03 Jul. (322418.120000) PPPoE is up -? Down
Rate=43947Kbps, Up Rate=585Kbps; SNR Margin Down=6.1dB, Up=3.8dB
06:03:19, 03 Jul. (322331.710000) PPPoE is down after 7 minutes
uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 -? Down)]
05:55:29, 03 Jul. (321861.300000) PPPoE is up -? Down
Rate=43947Kbps, Up Rate=602Kbps; SNR Margin Down=6.5dB, Up=4.9dB
05:52:57, 03 Jul. (321708.760000) PPPoE is down after 273
minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 -?
Down)]
01:18:55, 03 Jul. (305267.240000) PPPoE is up -? Down
Rate=34585Kbps, Up Rate=358Kbps; SNR Margin Down=9.0dB, Up=13.2dB
01:18:22, 03 Jul. (305234.560000) PPP LCP Send Termination
Request [PPPoE PADT received]
01:18:22, 03 Jul. (305234.470000) PPPoE is down after 542
minutes uptime [Disconnected]
16:15:18, 02 Jul. (272650.600000) PPPoE is up -? Down
Rate=34585Kbps, Up Rate=358Kbps; SNR Margin Down=4.9dB, Up=3.4dB
16:13:38, 02 Jul. (272550.600000) PPPoE is down after 116
minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 -?
Down)]
14:16:54, 02 Jul. (265546.270000) PPPoE is up -? Down
Rate=29146Kbps, Up Rate=432Kbps; SNR Margin Down=7.2dB, Up=12.3dB
14:15:09, 02 Jul. (265441.230000) PPPoE is down after 10 minutes
uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 -? Down)]
14:04:54, 02 Jul. (264826.560000) PPPoE is up -? Down
Rate=43947Kbps, Up Rate=1920Kbps; SNR Margin Down=7.6dB, Up=3.5dB
14:01:56, 02 Jul. (264648.040000) PPPoE is down after 48 minutes
uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 -? Down)]
13:12:56, 02 Jul. (261708.310000) PPPoE is up -? Down
Rate=43947Kbps, Up Rate=328Kbps; SNR Margin Down=7.4dB, Up=21.7dB
13:11:11, 02 Jul. (261603.320000) PPPoE is down after 0 minutes
uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 -? Down)]
13:10:45, 02 Jul. (261577.530000) PPPoE is up -? Down
Rate=43947Kbps, Up Rate=1903Kbps; SNR Margin Down=4.8dB, Up=-?0.7dB
13:09:20, 02 Jul. (261492.650000) PPPoE is down after 9 minutes
uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 -? Down)]
13:00:14, 02 Jul. (260945.880000) PPPoE is up -? Down
Rate=36455Kbps, Up Rate=671Kbps; SNR Margin Down=7.6dB, Up=6.1dB
12:55:43, 02 Jul. (260675.580000) PPPoE is down after 48 minutes
uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet -? Cable
Disconnected)]
  #110  
Old July 3rd 19, 12:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 421
Default BT broadband issues

Recliner wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I think you need to hack the HG612 (assuming that's what it is) to get
line stats from it


I think my modem is a different model, the ECI B-Focus:


Yes, openreach supplied both (perhaps depending on whether you're on an
ECI or Huawei cabinet?) if your cabinet *is* ECI I still don't think
they support G.INP so are more susceptible to impulsive noise ...

 




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