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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

BT broadband issues



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 1st 19, 11:19 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default BT broadband issues

Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 01 Jul 2019 08:26:24 +0000, Recliner wrote:

I certainly do remember 7, and he did a very good job of making me
suspicious of Hyperoptic. But with BT's apparent inability to deliver a
usable FTTC service, I may not have many other choices (ie, just VM and
Hyperoptic).


https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/


Isn't that still using Openreach?

  #22  
Old July 1st 19, 11:43 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 635
Default BT broadband issues

On Sunday, 30 June 2019 20:49:49 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Sunday, 30 June 2019 15:47:44 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
I've had BT ADSL from when it was first available in 2000, and unlimited
VDSL2 FTTC for several years now. It's generally performed to expectations
with few technical issues.

But from early this year, my FTTC performance has nose-dived: numerous
dropouts and upload speed below 0.5 Mbps, rather than the ~11 it should be.
Download speed is very variable, but much less than the 50+ Mbps that it
used to be.

I've have five visits from Openreach engineers, who usually get it back up
to speed after some tinkering and resetting the DLM. But the fix never
lasts. Just about everything that can be replaced has been, including much
of the copper wire to the cabinet and the Home Hub. Has anyone else come
across this problem?

If BT really can't fix it, would I be in my rights to first demand a refund
under the BT Stay Fast guarantee, and if they still can't fix, cancel the
contract and demand a refund of my pre-paid line rental?

I'm lucky enough to have the options of both Virgin and Hyperoptic, both of
which offer much higher, more reliable speeds. Hyperoptic, in particular,
sounds very attractive. Has anyone here used it? I don't really need its
150 Mbps speed, but I hope it would be more reliable than BT's flakey
network.


I had half day outages [and no rental refund] when BT claimed 99.9%
reliability some years ago, but the speed has been as expected both from
the exchange and more recently from the cabinet.

My usual recommendations for problems like this are two fold: -

1. Power cycle the router (at least 10s off, probably a minute)


Yes, I do that regularly. It doesn't usually help.

2. Ring the phone on the line, but don't answer it.


I'd have to turn the answering machine off. How does that help?


The burst of 90VAC helps dry out wet joins etc.

If there is a lot of noise on the line, then an 'underground' fault is usually indicated and often occurs after heavy rain.
  #23  
Old July 1st 19, 11:56 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default BT broadband issues

R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Sunday, 30 June 2019 20:49:49 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Sunday, 30 June 2019 15:47:44 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
I've had BT ADSL from when it was first available in 2000, and unlimited
VDSL2 FTTC for several years now. It's generally performed to expectations
with few technical issues.

But from early this year, my FTTC performance has nose-dived: numerous
dropouts and upload speed below 0.5 Mbps, rather than the ~11 it should be.
Download speed is very variable, but much less than the 50+ Mbps that it
used to be.

I've have five visits from Openreach engineers, who usually get it back up
to speed after some tinkering and resetting the DLM. But the fix never
lasts. Just about everything that can be replaced has been, including much
of the copper wire to the cabinet and the Home Hub. Has anyone else come
across this problem?

If BT really can't fix it, would I be in my rights to first demand a refund
under the BT Stay Fast guarantee, and if they still can't fix, cancel the
contract and demand a refund of my pre-paid line rental?

I'm lucky enough to have the options of both Virgin and Hyperoptic, both of
which offer much higher, more reliable speeds. Hyperoptic, in particular,
sounds very attractive. Has anyone here used it? I don't really need its
150 Mbps speed, but I hope it would be more reliable than BT's flakey
network.

I had half day outages [and no rental refund] when BT claimed 99.9%
reliability some years ago, but the speed has been as expected both from
the exchange and more recently from the cabinet.

My usual recommendations for problems like this are two fold: -

1. Power cycle the router (at least 10s off, probably a minute)


Yes, I do that regularly. It doesn't usually help.

2. Ring the phone on the line, but don't answer it.


I'd have to turn the answering machine off. How does that help?


The burst of 90VAC helps dry out wet joins etc.

If there is a lot of noise on the line, then an 'underground' fault is
usually indicated and often occurs after heavy rain.


The bizarre thing with my fault is that the Openreach engineers find no
faults on the line. And yet I get frequent dropouts, and consequently a
lower synch speed. And the upload speed is dramatically bad, much worse
than I got on ADSL2.

  #24  
Old July 1st 19, 11:56 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default BT broadband issues

Recliner wrote:

[snip]


I repeat, it is the performance figures shown ***by the router*** that
are essential to discovering the source of the problem.


I have a BT Home Hub 5 — can this provide those figures?


Almost certainly, yes. See:

https://community.bt.com/t5/Home-setup-Wi-Fi-network/Understand-Router-Stats/td-p/1541597

https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Fibre-broadband/Bt-home-hub-5-question/td-p/1056472/page/4

Others here will be able to give you chapter and verse as to how to see
these figures. But essentially, log into the hub with the username &
password shown on its base or rear and investigate every screen in turn,
digging into the every advanced option you see, and ignoring messages of
the form "Beware! Dragons be here!" Make notes as you go, so you can
find your way around in the future.

Bear in mind that the HH range are designed for people who don't want to
know anything about their connection's performance, so finding anything
useful is virtually impossible.

Sadly, even good ISPs like Zen will now give you an unhelpful router
more-or-less for free when you sign up. They sent me a Technicolor
TG588v v2 router which works well but is a real pain to monitor
performance figures. It really is worth getting a good router such as a
Draytek Vigor 2762 or 2862 which shows you performance details and can
output to a syslog server.



Have you used F8Lure to monitor the connection?


I've tried, but the promised emails with my password haven't arrived.


Strange - there might be a few minutes delay. It might well not work
with gmail or hotmail addresses - I've always used real ones, typically
those linked to the connection provider.


You will need either a
static public IP or a dynamic DNS configuration and the latter may
depend on your router's ability to support it.


The Home Hub 5 doesn't seem to be able to synch for long, so I've gone back
to using the Huawei VDSL modem, which works better.


The difficulty with the modem is that there is no way to see its
performance parameters.

Ultimately, your only solution is to move ISP. See for example Andrews
& Arnold at:

https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/

.... and click on the link part way down that says "We'll fix your line
even if you are with another ISP!"

Of course they are a bit more expensive than some, but how much time and
effort have you wasted on your existing supplier?


--
Graham J
  #25  
Old July 1st 19, 12:05 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default BT broadband issues

Recliner wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 01 Jul 2019 08:26:24 +0000, Recliner wrote:

I certainly do remember 7, and he did a very good job of making me
suspicious of Hyperoptic. But with BT's apparent inability to deliver a
usable FTTC service, I may not have many other choices (ie, just VM and
Hyperoptic).


https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/


Isn't that still using Openreach?


Yes, but the point is that A&A have the knowledge and balls to beat
Openreach about the head to get a fault cured.

I'm not sure how they ensure that the attending Openreach technician is
fully briefed on the history of a problem, but others here may be able
to explain.

See also Bob Eager's second post, about A&A's guarantee to fix a problem
line.

--
Graham J
  #26  
Old July 1st 19, 12:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default BT broadband issues

Recliner wrote:

[snip]


The bizarre thing with my fault is that the Openreach engineers find no
faults on the line. And yet I get frequent dropouts, and consequently a
lower synch speed. And the upload speed is dramatically bad, much worse
than I got on ADSL2.


The frequent dropouts will lead to the DLM adjusting the line
performance downwards, perhaps dramatically so. It follows that until
the dropouts issue is fixed it isn't necessarily possible to get
improved performance.

Even if all the copper wire between you and the green cabinet is
replaced, and all the joints remade, it is still possible that there may
be interference (from a farmer's electric fence, or an RAF radar
station, for example) which prevents reliable operation.

Which is all rather worrying for the time when BT replace all analog
phones with VoIP, since in general broadband services are not as
reliable as the underlying analog phone system. Clearly with FTTP it
might be practical to guarantee better reliability. For example the
Customer Premises Equipment could be continually monitored remotely, so
a technician could be dispatched to resolve a problem before the
customer becomes aware of the issue.


--
Graham J
  #27  
Old July 1st 19, 12:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default BT broadband issues

Graham J wrote:
Recliner wrote:

[snip]


I repeat, it is the performance figures shown ***by the router*** that
are essential to discovering the source of the problem.


I have a BT Home Hub 5 — can this provide those figures?


Almost certainly, yes. See:

https://community.bt.com/t5/Home-setup-Wi-Fi-network/Understand-Router-Stats/td-p/1541597

https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Fibre-broadband/Bt-home-hub-5-question/td-p/1056472/page/4

Others here will be able to give you chapter and verse as to how to see
these figures. But essentially, log into the hub with the username &
password shown on its base or rear and investigate every screen in turn,
digging into the every advanced option you see, and ignoring messages of
the form "Beware! Dragons be here!" Make notes as you go, so you can
find your way around in the future.

Bear in mind that the HH range are designed for people who don't want to
know anything about their connection's performance, so finding anything
useful is virtually impossible.

Sadly, even good ISPs like Zen will now give you an unhelpful router
more-or-less for free when you sign up. They sent me a Technicolor
TG588v v2 router which works well but is a real pain to monitor
performance figures. It really is worth getting a good router such as a
Draytek Vigor 2762 or 2862 which shows you performance details and can
output to a syslog server.



Have you used F8Lure to monitor the connection?


I've tried, but the promised emails with my password haven't arrived.


Strange - there might be a few minutes delay. It might well not work
with gmail or hotmail addresses - I've always used real ones, typically
those linked to the connection provider.


You will need either a
static public IP or a dynamic DNS configuration and the latter may
depend on your router's ability to support it.


The Home Hub 5 doesn't seem to be able to synch for long, so I've gone back
to using the Huawei VDSL modem, which works better.


The difficulty with the modem is that there is no way to see its
performance parameters.

Ultimately, your only solution is to move ISP. See for example Andrews
& Arnold at:

https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/

... and click on the link part way down that says "We'll fix your line
even if you are with another ISP!"

Of course they are a bit more expensive than some, but how much time and
effort have you wasted on your existing supplier?



My inclination right now, if moving from BT as my phone/broadband provider
is to ditch the whole Openreach FTTC offering, probably by moving to FTTP
with Hyperoptic. It not only offers dramatically higher speeds, but should
be much more reliable and is actually cheaper. Within five years, BT will
probably be forced to move the same way, but I'd rather not be dependent on
Openreach.

  #28  
Old July 1st 19, 12:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default BT broadband issues

Graham J wrote:
Recliner wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 01 Jul 2019 08:26:24 +0000, Recliner wrote:

I certainly do remember 7, and he did a very good job of making me
suspicious of Hyperoptic. But with BT's apparent inability to deliver a
usable FTTC service, I may not have many other choices (ie, just VM and
Hyperoptic).

https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/


Isn't that still using Openreach?


Yes, but the point is that A&A have the knowledge and balls to beat
Openreach about the head to get a fault cured.

I'm not sure how they ensure that the attending Openreach technician is
fully briefed on the history of a problem, but others here may be able
to explain.

See also Bob Eager's second post, about A&A's guarantee to fix a problem
line.


That's certainly useful information about a service that I wasn't aware of,
but a part of me resents having to pay extra just to get BT Openreach to do
its job. Providing a reliable network should be part of the service.

  #29  
Old July 1st 19, 12:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 761
Default BT broadband issues

On Mon 01/07/2019 11:19, Recliner wrote:
Graham J wrote:
Recliner wrote:

[snip]


I repeat, it is the performance figures shown ***by the router*** that
are essential to discovering the source of the problem.

I have a BT Home Hub 5 — can this provide those figures?


Almost certainly, yes. See:

https://community.bt.com/t5/Home-setup-Wi-Fi-network/Understand-Router-Stats/td-p/1541597

https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Fibre-broadband/Bt-home-hub-5-question/td-p/1056472/page/4

Others here will be able to give you chapter and verse as to how to see
these figures. But essentially, log into the hub with the username &
password shown on its base or rear and investigate every screen in turn,
digging into the every advanced option you see, and ignoring messages of
the form "Beware! Dragons be here!" Make notes as you go, so you can
find your way around in the future.

Bear in mind that the HH range are designed for people who don't want to
know anything about their connection's performance, so finding anything
useful is virtually impossible.

Sadly, even good ISPs like Zen will now give you an unhelpful router
more-or-less for free when you sign up. They sent me a Technicolor
TG588v v2 router which works well but is a real pain to monitor
performance figures. It really is worth getting a good router such as a
Draytek Vigor 2762 or 2862 which shows you performance details and can
output to a syslog server.



Have you used F8Lure to monitor the connection?

I've tried, but the promised emails with my password haven't arrived.


Strange - there might be a few minutes delay. It might well not work
with gmail or hotmail addresses - I've always used real ones, typically
those linked to the connection provider.


You will need either a
static public IP or a dynamic DNS configuration and the latter may
depend on your router's ability to support it.

The Home Hub 5 doesn't seem to be able to synch for long, so I've gone back
to using the Huawei VDSL modem, which works better.


The difficulty with the modem is that there is no way to see its
performance parameters.

Ultimately, your only solution is to move ISP. See for example Andrews
& Arnold at:

https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/

... and click on the link part way down that says "We'll fix your line
even if you are with another ISP!"

Of course they are a bit more expensive than some, but how much time and
effort have you wasted on your existing supplier?



My inclination right now, if moving from BT as my phone/broadband provider
is to ditch the whole Openreach FTTC offering, probably by moving to FTTP
with Hyperoptic. It not only offers dramatically higher speeds, but should
be much more reliable and is actually cheaper. Within five years, BT will
probably be forced to move the same way, but I'd rather not be dependent on
Openreach.

HMG have already charged BT with operating their phone system nationally
other than by a copper pair by - IMSMC - 2025. That means that every
customer will either have to have fibre or a microwave link by that time.

The annoying bit is that friends in Germany have had FTTP for well over
a decade and it took only a few days to do their whole street using a
mouse to drill routes. I suppose that it does help that many German
houses have a cellar into which the fibre can enter.

Their telephone is still on copper pair.

The reason the UK is so behind is the old rule that you must be able to
make a telephone call in emergency even if the mains has failed - and
before anyone says anything there is no guarantee their mobile will
continue to work if there is an area power outage.

--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
  #30  
Old July 1st 19, 12:44 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default BT broadband issues

Graham J wrote:
Recliner wrote:

[snip]


The bizarre thing with my fault is that the Openreach engineers find no
faults on the line. And yet I get frequent dropouts, and consequently a
lower synch speed. And the upload speed is dramatically bad, much worse
than I got on ADSL2.


The frequent dropouts will lead to the DLM adjusting the line
performance downwards, perhaps dramatically so. It follows that until
the dropouts issue is fixed it isn't necessarily possible to get
improved performance.

Even if all the copper wire between you and the green cabinet is
replaced, and all the joints remade, it is still possible that there may
be interference (from a farmer's electric fence, or an RAF radar
station, for example) which prevents reliable operation.


Nothing like that round here (it's a suburban area). And all the same wires
and equipment worked well till early this year. I can actually get better
speeds using BT FON from a neighbour's line than I can get on my own!


 




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