A Broadband and ADSL forum. BroadbanterBanter

Welcome to BroadbanterBanter.

You are currently viewing as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today.

Go Back   Home » BroadbanterBanter forum » Newsgroup Discussions » uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Are there 'home' wired APs available?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old July 20th 19, 06:05 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 539
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

On 20/07/2019 10:53, Woody wrote:

set an SSID so you can identify it


This is wrong. To enable seamless roaming between the different areas
covered by the main router and the access point, the two should have
exactly the same characteristics: SSID, passcode, etc.
  #12  
Old July 20th 19, 06:14 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tony Mountifield
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

In article ,
Java Jive wrote:
On 20/07/2019 10:53, Woody wrote:

set an SSID so you can identify it


This is wrong. To enable seamless roaming between the different areas
covered by the main router and the access point, the two should have
exactly the same characteristics: SSID, passcode, etc.


But unless you have a proper mesh system, it doesn't seem to.

I tried setting up two wired APs with the same SSID and key, although
they naturally had different MAC addresses. I found many devices which
had connected to one would not switch to the other when moving to a
different part of the house where the signal from the first was still
present but weak (and therefore slower).

I had to use different SSIDs, allowing the user to choose unambiguously.

Is there a magic way to do what you described?

Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: - http://tony.mountifield.org
  #13  
Old July 20th 19, 06:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Theo wrote:
Chris Green wrote:
I'm after some WiFi access points which are probably 'business'
oriented in their facilities but don't have the complicated management
control systems that many seem to have.


It doesn't fit your requirements, but the controller for the Ubiquiti APs
runs on a Raspberry Pi - I set one up the other day and it took a few
minutes (it helps if you've used a Pi before):
https://lazyadmin.nl/home-network/in...y-pi-in-5-min/

There's then lots of things that can be configured in the wifi setup if you
wish to. For instance, coordinating all your different APs so their channels
don't overlap. Thay's the advantage of a centralised controller if you have
multiple APs.

Yes, you're right. I've just realised that a Raspberry Pi with Wifi
(either a new Pi or an old one with a WiFi dongle) will do what I
want. I already use a Raspberry Pi for DNS so it can be a WiFi AP as
well. I have three (or maybe even four) Pis of various vintages
around the place so I can use the ones I have to try things out and,
if it works well, I can get a Pi 4 for an extra whizzy access point.

--
Chris Green

  #14  
Old July 20th 19, 08:30 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Tony Mountifield wrote:
In article ,
Java Jive wrote:
On 20/07/2019 10:53, Woody wrote:

set an SSID so you can identify it


This is wrong. To enable seamless roaming between the different areas
covered by the main router and the access point, the two should have
exactly the same characteristics: SSID, passcode, etc.


But unless you have a proper mesh system, it doesn't seem to.

There is no such thing as a 'proper mesh system' really. A mesh
system can only optimise the various ways that a WiFi 'server' can
encourage clients to roam. It's always down to the client to decide
to move from one 'server' to another.


I tried setting up two wired APs with the same SSID and key, although
they naturally had different MAC addresses. I found many devices which
had connected to one would not switch to the other when moving to a
different part of the house where the signal from the first was still
present but weak (and therefore slower).

I think this may well be the same whether the system is 'mesh' or not/


I had to use different SSIDs, allowing the user to choose unambiguously.

Is there a magic way to do what you described?

Magic is certainly required with most things WiFi related! :-)

--
Chris Green

  #15  
Old July 20th 19, 08:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Tony Mountifield wrote:
In article ,
Java Jive wrote:
On 20/07/2019 10:53, Woody wrote:

set an SSID so you can identify it


This is wrong. To enable seamless roaming between the different areas
covered by the main router and the access point, the two should have
exactly the same characteristics: SSID, passcode, etc.


But unless you have a proper mesh system, it doesn't seem to.

I tried setting up two wired APs with the same SSID and key, although
they naturally had different MAC addresses. I found many devices which
had connected to one would not switch to the other when moving to a
different part of the house where the signal from the first was still
present but weak (and therefore slower).

I had to use different SSIDs, allowing the user to choose unambiguously.

Is there a magic way to do what you described?


I think the only reliable way is to use access points with central
management. That way the management knows which AP has the currently
strongest connection to the roaming client and forces that connection to
be used.

Otherwise roaming depends on the capabilities of the client itself,
which is why you saw problems.


--
Graham J
  #16  
Old July 20th 19, 08:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Graham J wrote:
Tony Mountifield wrote:
In article ,
Java Jive wrote:
On 20/07/2019 10:53, Woody wrote:

set an SSID so you can identify it

This is wrong. To enable seamless roaming between the different areas
covered by the main router and the access point, the two should have
exactly the same characteristics: SSID, passcode, etc.


But unless you have a proper mesh system, it doesn't seem to.

I tried setting up two wired APs with the same SSID and key, although
they naturally had different MAC addresses. I found many devices which
had connected to one would not switch to the other when moving to a
different part of the house where the signal from the first was still
present but weak (and therefore slower).

I had to use different SSIDs, allowing the user to choose unambiguously.

Is there a magic way to do what you described?


I think the only reliable way is to use access points with central
management. That way the management knows which AP has the currently
strongest connection to the roaming client and forces that connection to
be used.

How? There really isn't a way for the 'server' to force a WiFi client
to move. Forcing a disconnect will cause a significant drop-out of
the connection and that's likely worse than staying connected to the
weaker signal.

--
Chris Green

  #17  
Old July 20th 19, 09:21 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Chris Green wrote:

[snip]


I think the only reliable way is to use access points with central
management. That way the management knows which AP has the currently
strongest connection to the roaming client and forces that connection to
be used.

How? There really isn't a way for the 'server' to force a WiFi client
to move. Forcing a disconnect will cause a significant drop-out of
the connection and that's likely worse than staying connected to the
weaker signal.


See: https://www.draytek.com/support/knowledge-base/5764 which
confirms that this is exactly how they do it. I suspect the reconnect
time is quite short - acceptable except for VoIP, possibly.

Googling finds:

https://community.arubanetworks.com/t5/Controller-Based-WLANs/How-to-improve-client-handover-and-roaming-between-AP-s/ta-p/180542

https://support.zyxel.eu/hc/en-us/articles/360006182414-Roaming-Issues-on-professional-wireless-devices-and-how-to-get-rid-of-them

https://serverfault.com/questions/398905/how-to-achieve-automatic-roaming-between-two-cisco-aironet-access-points
- the last comment.

https://www.speedguide.net/faq/how-to-setup-seamless-wireless-roaming-483
which mentions "seamless handoff".

https://help.keenetic.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000862539-Wi-Fi-seamless-roaming
suggests 100mS to switch from one AP to another.

Basically, WiFi is hopelessly oversold. As these examples show, to do
it properly requires significant expense and setting up.


--
Graham J
  #18  
Old July 20th 19, 09:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Tobin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

In article , Chris Green wrote:

But unless you have a proper mesh system, it doesn't seem to.


There is no such thing as a 'proper mesh system' really. A mesh
system can only optimise the various ways that a WiFi 'server' can
encourage clients to roam.


It can also keep track of data buffered on one AP and send it to
another when a client roams.

It's always down to the client to decide
to move from one 'server' to another.


True.

By the way, "mesh" is not the relevant point - it describes the
network topology, and APs don't have to be connected in a mesh to
co-operate in roaming.

A question for network experts - when a client roams from one AP
to another, it will almost certainly be connected to a different
switch or switch port. And the switch won't know this until the
client transmits a packet. Do clients immediately send something
to make this happen?

-- Richard
  #19  
Old July 20th 19, 09:28 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Tobin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

In article ,
Graham J wrote:

I think the only reliable way is to use access points with central
management. That way the management knows which AP has the currently
strongest connection to the roaming client and forces that connection to
be used.


There is no way to force a client to move. Even with centrally
managed APs client stickiness is a problem; there are endless
questions about it on the Unifi support pages.

-- Richard
  #20  
Old July 20th 19, 09:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Tobin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

In article ,
Graham J wrote:

How? There really isn't a way for the 'server' to force a WiFi client
to move. Forcing a disconnect will cause a significant drop-out of
the connection and that's likely worse than staying connected to the
weaker signal.


See: https://www.draytek.com/support/knowledge-base/5764 which
confirms that this is exactly how they do it. I suspect the reconnect
time is quite short - acceptable except for VoIP, possibly.


It still doesn't force a move - nothing ensures that the client won't
keep reconnecting to the same AP. It all depends on the clients,
and some are remarkably stupid.

-- Richard
 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the best way to set up multiple wifi APs? Peter uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 0 November 4th 11 04:45 PM
Public wifi APs - how to stop customers seeing each other? Simon Pleasants uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 0 October 27th 04 05:11 PM
Two wifi APs off one ADSL modem? Mark Scott uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 3 October 5th 04 05:33 PM
Two wifi APs off one ADSL modem? martin uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 5 October 5th 04 02:21 PM
linked wired network(downstairs) to mixed wired/wireless network (upstairs) Matt uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) 4 February 8th 04 11:26 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright 2004-2019 BroadbanterBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.