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Are there 'home' wired APs available?



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 21st 19, 12:34 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tim+[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 166
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Chris Green wrote:
Tony Mountifield wrote:
In article ,
Java Jive wrote:
On 20/07/2019 10:53, Woody wrote:

set an SSID so you can identify it

This is wrong. To enable seamless roaming between the different areas
covered by the main router and the access point, the two should have
exactly the same characteristics: SSID, passcode, etc.


But unless you have a proper mesh system, it doesn't seem to.

There is no such thing as a 'proper mesh system' really. A mesh
system can only optimise the various ways that a WiFi 'server' can
encourage clients to roam. It's always down to the client to decide
to move from one 'server' to another.


I tried setting up two wired APs with the same SSID and key, although
they naturally had different MAC addresses. I found many devices which
had connected to one would not switch to the other when moving to a
different part of the house where the signal from the first was still
present but weak (and therefore slower).

I think this may well be the same whether the system is 'mesh' or not/



That's not my experience. With our old system, our wireless devices would
hang on like grime death to the first access point they picked up. With a
mesh system we always have good signal strength as it seem to migrate
between nodes without “hanging up” on the first one connected to.

Tim


  #22  
Old July 21st 19, 08:45 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 120
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Richard Tobin wrote:
In article ,
Graham J wrote:

How? There really isn't a way for the 'server' to force a WiFi client
to move. Forcing a disconnect will cause a significant drop-out of
the connection and that's likely worse than staying connected to the
weaker signal.


See: https://www.draytek.com/support/knowledge-base/5764 which
confirms that this is exactly how they do it. I suspect the reconnect
time is quite short - acceptable except for VoIP, possibly.


It still doesn't force a move - nothing ensures that the client won't
keep reconnecting to the same AP. It all depends on the clients,
and some are remarkably stupid.


Did you actually read the link?

It includes the text:

" Minimum RSSI with Adjacent AP RSSI over
If the wireless client 's RSSI(-dBm) is lower than the minimum
RSSI, and there is another VigorAP on the network, which has a signal
with the wireless client stronger enough (RSSI is higher than current
RSSI, and the difference is over the defined value), only then will the
AP disconnect the wireless client. This mode requires information
exchange between the APs, so it will work only when all the AP are
VigorAP that supports this feature and are connected by Ethernet and
under the same LAN subnet.
"

This would seem to ensure that the client will connect to the stronger
AP. It won't reconnect to the weaker AP because the weakter one will
refuse the connection.


--
Graham J
  #23  
Old July 21st 19, 10:17 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Tim+ wrote:
Chris Green wrote:
Tony Mountifield wrote:
In article ,
Java Jive wrote:
On 20/07/2019 10:53, Woody wrote:

set an SSID so you can identify it

This is wrong. To enable seamless roaming between the different areas
covered by the main router and the access point, the two should have
exactly the same characteristics: SSID, passcode, etc.

But unless you have a proper mesh system, it doesn't seem to.

There is no such thing as a 'proper mesh system' really. A mesh
system can only optimise the various ways that a WiFi 'server' can
encourage clients to roam. It's always down to the client to decide
to move from one 'server' to another.


I tried setting up two wired APs with the same SSID and key, although
they naturally had different MAC addresses. I found many devices which
had connected to one would not switch to the other when moving to a
different part of the house where the signal from the first was still
present but weak (and therefore slower).

I think this may well be the same whether the system is 'mesh' or not/


That's not my experience. With our old system, our wireless devices would
hang on like grime death to the first access point they picked up. With a
mesh system we always have good signal strength as it seem to migrate
between nodes without “hanging up” on the first one connected to.

That's probably down to the 'hints' that APs can give clients to
encourage them to change AP. I think most 'mesh' systems just have
APs which are better optimised for this. As far as I understand it
there's absolutely nothing different (from the clients point of view)
between a collection of APs calling themselves a mesh and a collection
of APs not calling themselves a mesh. The mesh systems you can buy
simply do most/all the required configuration for you and also hand
the data around co-operatively. The handing around of data between
the mesh nodes just reduces the traffic and overheads round the
system.

Also, nearly all 'mesh' systems sold for domestic users use WiFi
backhaul (by default anyway) and, doing this, the peer to peer
co-operative nature of the nodes may well help quite a bit. If all
nodes are wired (as OP this is what I was asking about) I don't think
'mesh' will help nearly so much.



--
Chris Green

  #24  
Old July 21st 19, 10:27 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Graham J wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

[snip]


I think the only reliable way is to use access points with central
management. That way the management knows which AP has the currently
strongest connection to the roaming client and forces that connection to
be used.

How? There really isn't a way for the 'server' to force a WiFi client
to move. Forcing a disconnect will cause a significant drop-out of
the connection and that's likely worse than staying connected to the
weaker signal.


See: https://www.draytek.com/support/knowledge-base/5764 which
confirms that this is exactly how they do it. I suspect the reconnect
time is quite short - acceptable except for VoIP, possibly.

I think the drop-out may be longer/worse than just spoiling VOIP.

I do actually have a Draytek router with the above settings available
and have them set up to encourage roaming, I'm not convinced it works
particularly well.


https://www.speedguide.net/faq/how-to-setup-seamless-wireless-roaming-483
which mentions "seamless handoff".

It mumbles on about mesh systems but doesn't indicate how they work.


Basically, WiFi is hopelessly oversold. As these examples show, to do
it properly requires significant expense and setting up.

Yes! :-)

--
Chris Green

  #25  
Old July 21st 19, 11:23 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 120
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Chris Green wrote:

[snip]


I do actually have a Draytek router with the above settings available
and have them set up to encourage roaming, I'm not convinced it works
particularly well.


I have a Vigor 2860 and a Vigor AP810 connected by a long wire, so I
will have a play with these settings and see how different clients
behave. Might be a week or two but I will report back.

-- Graham
  #26  
Old July 21st 19, 12:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 216
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Graham J wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

[snip]


I do actually have a Draytek router with the above settings available
and have them set up to encourage roaming, I'm not convinced it works
particularly well.


I have a Vigor 2860 and a Vigor AP810 connected by a long wire, so I
will have a play with these settings and see how different clients
behave. Might be a week or two but I will report back.

I'd be very interested as I could easily add some Draytek APs if that
might improve things with my 2860n. If they use 'official' ways of
doing it I might even get a RaspberryPi AP to cooperate with the 2860n.

--
Chris Green

  #27  
Old July 21st 19, 01:39 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Tobin
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Posts: 277
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

In article ,
Graham J wrote:

Did you actually read the link?

It includes the text:

" Minimum RSSI with Adjacent AP RSSI over
If the wireless client 's RSSI(-dBm) is lower than the minimum
RSSI, and there is another VigorAP on the network, which has a signal
with the wireless client stronger enough (RSSI is higher than current
RSSI, and the difference is over the defined value), only then will the
AP disconnect the wireless client. This mode requires information
exchange between the APs, so it will work only when all the AP are
VigorAP that supports this feature and are connected by Ethernet and
under the same LAN subnet.
"

This would seem to ensure that the client will connect to the stronger
AP. It won't reconnect to the weaker AP because the weakter one will
refuse the connection.


I don't see anything there about refusing a connection, only breaking
an existing connection. In any case it still relies on the client to
sensibly choose a different AP after being disconnected.

Even with a sensible client, its view of the relative signal strengths
may not match that of the AP. And it may be getting interference from
someone else's AP that your AP doesn't know about.

-- Richard
  #28  
Old July 21st 19, 01:57 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 427
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Java Jive wrote:

I could walk from one end of the two buildings to the other visiting
every room on the way while streaming a R4 program via my mobile, a
Samsung Galaxy Note S2, without it dropping out.


Depending on how you streamed R4, there might have been tens of seconds
of audio buffering
  #29  
Old July 21st 19, 02:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 537
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

On 21/07/2019 12:57, Andy Burns wrote:
Java Jive wrote:

I could walk from one end of the two buildings to the other visiting
every room on the way while streaming a R4 program via my mobile, a
Samsung Galaxy Note S2, without it dropping out.


Depending on how you streamed R4, there might have been tens of seconds
of audio buffering


Yes, but it took much longer than that to walk the entire two buildings,
visiting every room, and checking by placing the phone appropriately
that there were no dead spots in places where users would be likely to
use theirs - for example:

* Lying on a bed
I held my phone around the pillow area of each bed.

* Left charging and downloading overnight
I placed my phone on all the flat surfaces.

  #30  
Old July 21st 19, 04:16 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Theo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 88
Default Are there 'home' wired APs available?

Richard Tobin wrote:
In article , Chris Green wrote:
I'd like (but it isn't vital) to have one
or two more RJ45s for local client devices.


They don't have that. Unmanaged switches are cheap though,
e.g. Netgear GS305 is 13.99 on Amazon.


The UAP-AC-Pro does. It might be useful if the AP is running off PoE and
there's no power in the vicinity (eg screwed to the ceiling). It also makes
it feasible to daisy chain APs.

Theo
 




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