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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Openreach to be nationalised



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 15th 19, 03:08 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andrew[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 14:41, Richmond wrote:
Comparing the current system from one we had 40 years ago will make it
look good obviously. But if you compare our system with others in Europe
that's not good.

Privatising a monopoly is a stupid idea, and only someone so obsessed
with ideology that her brain had stopped functioning completely would do
such a thing, and her name was Margaret Thatcher.

The economy is not like a housewife's budget, never has been, never will
be.

Privatising gas, electricity, railways, mail, bus services are also
stupid for the same obvious reasons that anyone who has even walked
within a few feet of an economics text book would tell you.

And so we carry on paying the sponging parasitic shareholders because we
have no choice. But oh wait, we do have a choice...


Do you have a pension fund ?, or are you one of the parasitic moaning
minnies with a guaranteed public service pension that is ultimately
paid for by the taxes paid by BT directly and indirectly paid on
private pensions, that depend on dividends from companies like BT.

I expect you preferred the 'wonderful' glory days of the GPO who
basically expected customers to grovel when they wanted a phone
line installed and told to Eff Off, 'there aren't any pairs', and we
wont change that situation just for a domestic user.
  #12  
Old November 15th 19, 03:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MB[_2_]
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Posts: 285
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 15:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
Just not true - look at how BT works now against pre-privatisation when
they felt they were doing you a favour talking to you.


At least post privatisation it was one organisation but now you have
lots of different departments that are independent. I suppose we should
consider ourselves lucky that we can dial non-BT numbers unlike the
railways with all the independent companies that make it so much more
difficult to go from A to B.
  #13  
Old November 15th 19, 03:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andrew[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 15:00, MB wrote:
On 15/11/2019 11:42, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
Back to the bad old days of you can only rent a phone / modem / TAM
from the GPO and pay over the odds.

Lots bonkers about this: -

1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps is
way enough to stream 4k video.* Business customers may do (dozens of
PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.

2. Leaves Virgin and the likes of Hyperoptic high and dry - who would
order off them if fibre is free?

3. Shareholders get left with unsaleable [either by law or because no
sucker will buy them] low coupon bonds, which as well as unfair
undermines the UK govt gilts market.

4. If taxed heavily Google and others would simply quit the UK
market.* Does Google submit to censorship in China - no - and it has
twenty times as many people as the UK.* Besides this is the internet,
so there is always a way to the content people want, even in
theocratic states like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps the silliest idea is that government directed IT development
will work better.* Presumably it will be able to emulate its past huge
commercial successes like GPO's System X or ICL*...


* not strictly nationalised, but cobbled together by government
re-organisation of prior companies.





MacDonnell says free for everyone but I suspect that would change in the
unlikely event of them ever getting any power.* Do we really want to
give free broadband to a wealthy person living on a remote rural or with
a second home there (even if he is a Champagne Socialist)?

Someone asked him this morning, why not free water etc and it waffled.

If someone wants to set up a rural business using lots of water,
electricity etc then they expect to have to budget for it but some
reason expect fast broadband free or heavily subsidised.* Never
understood why they should not have to include that in their business
costs - they will be charged for the cost of their telephone (actual
cost and not standard charge).

Already one company has had to put on hold a plan to sell off part of
their business.

As above big companies will go abroad especially when people like
Druncker was offering low tax for companies like Amazon to use
Luxembourg to avoid tax.

I suppose we should be grateful that no one with half a brain would vote
Labour into power!


Sadly there are millions hooked on the socialist teat for employment,
pensions, 'free NHS', etc etc. This lot will always vote Labour.



  #14  
Old November 15th 19, 03:18 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andrew[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 15:09, MB wrote:
On 15/11/2019 15:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
Just not true - look at how BT works now against pre-privatisation
when they felt they were doing you a favour talking to you.


At least post privatisation it was one organisation but now you have
lots of different departments that are independent.* I suppose we should
consider ourselves lucky that we can dial non-BT numbers unlike the
railways with all the independent companies that make it so much more
difficult to go from A to B.


Explain ?.

national rail enquiries deals with all the TOCs.

I can buy a ticket from where I live to South Wales at a Southern
Rail station and the journey uses Southern and GWR and I can
choose the expensive route via London Zone 1, or travel via
Havant and Salisbury.

Where is the difficulty ?, especially in the modern era of
internet connectivity and WiFi on the train.

I rememeber how dirty and decrepid the trains were when BR
ran them. I remember the raw sewage being pumped out into the
Channel all the way from Cornwall to East Sussex. There was never
any money to improve either Beaches or Trains because we were
****ing away billions keeping the unions happy.
  #15  
Old November 15th 19, 03:18 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 92
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 13:15:29 +0000, grinch
wrote:

This could be made to work if 2 conditions were met

1 Openreach to be treated as a utility company that has a monopoly but
has to meet certain criteria. Fully stable working 10mbs to all
customers from day one and FTTP 1 gig within 10 years to all customers.
Both legally binding on Openreach, from day one.

2 Openreach cannot provide end user services a bit like your local
electricity supply company.They supply connectivity to all ISPs/telcos
at the same price.


But the Labour [arty is promising free Gigabit Internet to all
consumers at no cost. So presumably all those ISPs would also have to
be nationalised or subsidised?



Given our political classes ,hell freezing over is more likely. The
above would need backbone and commitment and an understanding of the
telecoms industry, which given their usual pronouncements in the press,
is in short supply.


And what would happen to other companies that have invested in fibre
networks? Would the government fully compensate them for their losses?
Or would they all be nationalised as well, at below-market prices, and
low interest bonds?

The only people who will benefit from this ridiculous idea are the
lawyers.
  #16  
Old November 15th 19, 05:40 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 92
Default Openreach to be nationalised

Richmond wrote:
Comparing the current system from one we had 40 years ago will make it
look good obviously. But if you compare our system with others in Europe
that's not good.

Privatising a monopoly is a stupid idea, and only someone so obsessed
with ideology that her brain had stopped functioning completely would do
such a thing, and her name was Margaret Thatcher.

The economy is not like a housewife's budget, never has been, never will
be.

Privatising gas, electricity, railways, mail, bus services are also
stupid for the same obvious reasons that anyone who has even walked
within a few feet of an economics text book would tell you.

And so we carry on paying the sponging parasitic shareholders because we
have no choice. But oh wait, we do have a choice...


Presumably you don't believe in any form of private enterprise that has
shareholders?

  #17  
Old November 15th 19, 06:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Vir Campestris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 282
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 11:42, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps is way enough to stream 4k video. Business customers may do (dozens of PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.


Fibre is the only way to get 50Mbps to rural areas.

Since they've promised it to everyone - even those without mains power,
water, or drainage never mind gas - this'll be interesting.

Except I'll be paying for it. Pension invested in the stock market.

I also recall when I first bought a house I was told by old PO I
couldn't have a 'phone "because we've run out of numbers". I could
think of one for them... (presumably they meant exchange capacity)

Andy
  #18  
Old November 15th 19, 07:29 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 705
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On Friday, 15 November 2019 14:41:41 UTC, Richmond wrote:
Comparing the current system from one we had 40 years ago will make it
look good obviously. But if you compare our system with others in Europe
that's not good.

Privatising a monopoly is a stupid idea, and only someone so obsessed
with ideology that her brain had stopped functioning completely would do
such a thing, and her name was Margaret Thatcher.


Privatising was a bad idea if GPOT had remained a monopoly, but competition was allowed first and this resulted in more change than privatisation.

Despite my reservations about the "middleman's charter" of mobile roll out the method chosen actually resulted in faster take up, greater market penetration and fairly soon falling prices.

The economy is not like a housewife's budget, never has been, never will
be.

Privatising gas, electricity, railways, mail, bus services are also
stupid for the same obvious reasons that anyone who has even walked
within a few feet of an economics text book would tell you.

And so we carry on paying the sponging parasitic shareholders because we
have no choice. But oh wait, we do have a choice...


  #19  
Old November 15th 19, 07:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 705
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On Friday, 15 November 2019 18:02:53 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 15/11/2019 11:42, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps is way enough to stream 4k video. Business customers may do (dozens of PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.


Fibre is the only way to get 50Mbps to rural areas.


Rubbish - 4G already does that (75Mbps measured where I am) and 5G will go faster and make it commonplace.


Since they've promised it to everyone - even those without mains power,
water, or drainage never mind gas - this'll be interesting.


My phone doesn't need mains power, although that it how I usually charge it.


Except I'll be paying for it. Pension invested in the stock market.

I also recall when I first bought a house I was told by old PO I
couldn't have a 'phone "because we've run out of numbers". I could
think of one for them... (presumably they meant exchange capacity)


Some exchanges really did run out of numbers - i.e. all usable numbers allocated. In urban areas they usually added another director exchange.


Andy


  #20  
Old November 15th 19, 09:32 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 815
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On Fri 15/11/2019 19:34, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Friday, 15 November 2019 18:02:53 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 15/11/2019 11:42, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps is way enough to stream 4k video. Business customers may do (dozens of PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.


Fibre is the only way to get 50Mbps to rural areas.


Rubbish - 4G already does that (75Mbps measured where I am) and 5G will go faster and make it commonplace.


Since they've promised it to everyone - even those without mains power,
water, or drainage never mind gas - this'll be interesting.


My phone doesn't need mains power, although that it how I usually charge it.


Except I'll be paying for it. Pension invested in the stock market.

I also recall when I first bought a house I was told by old PO I
couldn't have a 'phone "because we've run out of numbers". I could
think of one for them... (presumably they meant exchange capacity)


Some exchanges really did run out of numbers - i.e. all usable numbers allocated. In urban areas they usually added another director exchange.



Surely Mark the reason many exchanges ran out of numbers was because the
then use of local dialling codes starting with 7, 8, and 9 which
otherwise blocked any actual number starting with those digits? Now that
local codes don't exist and even numbers beginning with 9 are
commonplace an additional director should now never be necessary should it?


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
 




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