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Openreach to be nationalised



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 15th 19, 10:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Vir Campestris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 266
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 19:34, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Friday, 15 November 2019 18:02:53 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 15/11/2019 11:42, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps is way enough to stream 4k video. Business customers may do (dozens of PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.


Fibre is the only way to get 50Mbps to rural areas.


Rubbish - 4G already does that (75Mbps measured where I am) and 5G will go faster and make it commonplace.

Where we are half the time we can't get a mobile 'phone signal at all.
Of any G. We have a fibre.


Since they've promised it to everyone - even those without mains power,
water, or drainage never mind gas - this'll be interesting.


My phone doesn't need mains power, although that it how I usually charge it.


Except I'll be paying for it. Pension invested in the stock market.

I also recall when I first bought a house I was told by old PO I
couldn't have a 'phone "because we've run out of numbers". I could
think of one for them... (presumably they meant exchange capacity)


Some exchanges really did run out of numbers - i.e. all usable numbers allocated. In urban areas they usually added another director exchange.


After some months (I don't recall how many) they allowed us to have a
'phone. There was no renumbering that I recall; certainly my employers
and the local council's numbers (both easily remembered) stayed the
same. Pretty sure this was just down to failing to predict the
requirements for new numbers far enough ahead. In a New Town with loads
of building going on.

Andy
  #22  
Old November 15th 19, 11:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MB[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 277
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 18:02, Vir Campestris wrote:

I also recall when I first bought a house I was told by old PO I
couldn't have a 'phone "because we've run out of numbers".* I could
think of one for them... (presumably they meant exchange capacity)


I don't know the restrictions that the GPO operated under but the
organisation that I worked was not allowed to speculatively build or
install equipment until after it was privatised. It could be that GPO
were not allowed to install capacity that might take years to recover
its costs.
  #23  
Old November 16th 19, 01:40 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andrew[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 52
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 21:48, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 15/11/2019 19:34, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Friday, 15 November 2019 18:02:53 UTC, Vir Campestris* wrote:
On 15/11/2019 11:42, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps
is way enough to stream 4k video.* Business customers may do (dozens
of PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.

Fibre is the only way to get 50Mbps to rural areas.


Rubbish - 4G already does that (75Mbps measured where I am) and 5G
will go faster and make it commonplace.

Where we are half the time we can't get a mobile 'phone signal at all.
Of any G. We have a fibre.


Since they've promised it to everyone - even those without mains power,
water, or drainage never mind gas - this'll be interesting.


My phone doesn't need mains power, although that it how I usually
charge it.


Except I'll be paying for it. Pension invested in the stock market.

I also recall when I first bought a house I was told by old PO I
couldn't have a 'phone "because we've run out of numbers".* I could
think of one for them... (presumably they meant exchange capacity)


Some exchanges really did run out of numbers - i.e. all usable numbers
allocated.* In urban areas they usually added another director exchange.


After some months (I don't recall how many) they allowed us to have a
'phone. There was no renumbering that I recall; certainly my employers
and the local council's numbers (both easily remembered) stayed the
same. Pretty sure this was just down to failing to predict the
requirements for new numbers far enough ahead. In a New Town with loads
of building going on.

Andy


Lots of people remember 'party lines' with presumably the same
number for 2 houses. Listening in to the others conversations
was quite common.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/12643314364

  #24  
Old November 16th 19, 07:42 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 773
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On Sat 16/11/2019 00:40, Andrew wrote:
On 15/11/2019 21:48, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 15/11/2019 19:34, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Friday, 15 November 2019 18:02:53 UTC, Vir Campestris* wrote:
On 15/11/2019 11:42, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps
is way enough to stream 4k video.* Business customers may do
(dozens of PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.

Fibre is the only way to get 50Mbps to rural areas.

Rubbish - 4G already does that (75Mbps measured where I am) and 5G
will go faster and make it commonplace.

Where we are half the time we can't get a mobile 'phone signal at all.
Of any G. We have a fibre.


Since they've promised it to everyone - even those without mains power,
water, or drainage never mind gas - this'll be interesting.

My phone doesn't need mains power, although that it how I usually
charge it.


Except I'll be paying for it. Pension invested in the stock market.

I also recall when I first bought a house I was told by old PO I
couldn't have a 'phone "because we've run out of numbers".* I could
think of one for them... (presumably they meant exchange capacity)

Some exchanges really did run out of numbers - i.e. all usable
numbers allocated.* In urban areas they usually added another
director exchange.


After some months (I don't recall how many) they allowed us to have a
'phone. There was no renumbering that I recall; certainly my employers
and the local council's numbers (both easily remembered) stayed the
same. Pretty sure this was just down to failing to predict the
requirements for new numbers far enough ahead. In a New Town with
loads of building going on.

Andy


Lots of people remember 'party lines' with presumably the same
number for 2 houses. Listening in to the others conversations
was quite common.

*https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/12643314364

No, on a party line the wire pair went to both houses, but the ringing
and dialling was done from one leg to earth for one house and the other
leg to earth for the second - as against across the pair with no ground
on a modern installation. Audio was across the pair so both houses - for
audio - were in parallel.

--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
  #25  
Old November 16th 19, 09:45 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 133
Default Openreach to be nationalised

Andrew wrote:

[snip]


Lots of people remember 'party lines' with presumably the same
number for 2 houses. Listening in to the others conversations
was quite common.

*https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/12643314364



No. Onc copper pair, two numbers. Speech was always carried between the
two legs of the pair, while the bells were wired either between both
legs of the pair or from one leg to ground. It required that the
subscriber's bell was wired consistently with the metering at the
exchange, so that outgoing calls were billed to the corect party.

Presumably a third number could have been provided between the other leg
and ground.

Outside the UK sometimes ringing was the only discriminating factor:
different ringing cadences were intended for each subscriber. But every
subscriber heard the rings and would have to be alert to recognise
his/her own. Many different parties could thus share a single line.



--
Graham J
  #26  
Old November 16th 19, 04:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 650
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On Friday, 15 November 2019 21:32:06 UTC, Woody wrote:
On Fri 15/11/2019 19:34, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Friday, 15 November 2019 18:02:53 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 15/11/2019 11:42, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps is way enough to stream 4k video. Business customers may do (dozens of PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.

Fibre is the only way to get 50Mbps to rural areas.


Rubbish - 4G already does that (75Mbps measured where I am) and 5G will go faster and make it commonplace.


Since they've promised it to everyone - even those without mains power,
water, or drainage never mind gas - this'll be interesting.


My phone doesn't need mains power, although that it how I usually charge it.


Except I'll be paying for it. Pension invested in the stock market.

I also recall when I first bought a house I was told by old PO I
couldn't have a 'phone "because we've run out of numbers". I could
think of one for them... (presumably they meant exchange capacity)


Some exchanges really did run out of numbers - i.e. all usable numbers allocated. In urban areas they usually added another director exchange.



Surely Mark the reason many exchanges ran out of numbers was because the
then use of local dialling codes starting with 7, 8, and 9 which
otherwise blocked any actual number starting with those digits? Now that
local codes don't exist and even numbers beginning with 9 are
commonplace an additional director should now never be necessary should it?


You are thinking of regular exchanges. Director exchanges were in London, Brum, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester. They always had 'local' numbers starting 7, 8 and 9. Here in Manchester the area next to me original [and still extant] code was 998. Obviously a few combinations did not exist and until recently no Manchester exchange started with '5'.

The main reason was simply the increase in lines and from the late 80's most businesses acquiring additional lines for fax machines.



--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


  #27  
Old November 16th 19, 04:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 650
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On Friday, 15 November 2019 22:47:45 UTC, MB wrote:
On 15/11/2019 18:02, Vir Campestris wrote:

I also recall when I first bought a house I was told by old PO I
couldn't have a 'phone "because we've run out of numbers".* I could
think of one for them... (presumably they meant exchange capacity)


I don't know the restrictions that the GPO operated under but the
organisation that I worked was not allowed to speculatively build or
install equipment until after it was privatised. It could be that GPO
were not allowed to install capacity that might take years to recover
its costs.


Whereas BT certainly did (does AFAIK), providing equipment and a bounty to builders to install. The first owner / occupier has to pay the full installation fee - nice little earner for BT.
  #28  
Old November 17th 19, 03:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
bert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Openreach to be nationalised

In article , Richmond
writes
Comparing the current system from one we had 40 years ago will make it
look good obviously. But if you compare our system with others in Europe
that's not good.

Privatising a monopoly is a stupid idea, and only someone so obsessed
with ideology that her brain had stopped functioning completely would do
such a thing, and her name was Margaret Thatcher.

The economy is not like a housewife's budget, never has been, never will
be.

Privatising gas, electricity, railways, mail, bus services are also
stupid for the same obvious reasons that anyone who has even walked
within a few feet of an economics text book would tell you.


And so we carry on paying the sponging parasitic shareholders because we
have no choice. But oh wait, we do have a choice...

What return do these sponging parasitic shareholders get on the capital
they have invested I wonder?
--
bert
  #29  
Old November 17th 19, 03:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
bert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Openreach to be nationalised

In article , MB writes
On 15/11/2019 18:02, Vir Campestris wrote:
I also recall when I first bought a house I was told by old PO I
couldn't have a 'phone "because we've run out of numbers".* I could
think of one for them... (presumably they meant exchange capacity)


I don't know the restrictions that the GPO operated under but the
organisation that I worked was not allowed to speculatively build or
install equipment until after it was privatised. It could be that GPO
were not allowed to install capacity that might take years to recover
its costs.

Post Office Telephones made plenty of money but the unions insisted it
was used to subsidise the postal service.
--
bert
  #30  
Old November 18th 19, 07:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 650
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On Friday, 15 November 2019 14:41:41 UTC, Richmond wrote:
Comparing the current system from one we had 40 years ago will make it
look good obviously.


True. But try comparing nationalised BR to privatised railways

Railway infrastructure was badly damaged and neglected during the war so starting at 1948 nationalisation might be a bit unfair, but in any event during nearly half a century of nationalisation passenger journeys and freight fell or stagnated despite a large rise in population and increased prosperity.

By contrast in around twenty years of privatisation passenger journeys doubled and freight rose over 50%. The main problem now is saturation of services, meaning you can't get any more passengers on the trains nor trains on the track.

But if you compare our system with others in Europe that's not good.


Not sure that is true. France for instance was several years behind the UK, where two networks competed, in rolling out mobile phones and the consumer cost remained many times higher whereas prices in the UK rapidly fell.


Privatising a monopoly is a stupid idea, and only someone so obsessed
with ideology that her brain had stopped functioning completely would do
such a thing, and her name was Margaret Thatcher.


Leaving BT with a predominant market share of land line provision was a mistake, but letting in competition (firstly Mercury for calls, later three other operators for mobile and cable operators for broadband) was a good idea.. BT was also left with a universal service provision.

Recreating a state monopoly is a stupid idea, and only someone so obsessed
with ideology that their brain had stopped functioning completely would want to do such a thing, and his name is Jeremy Corbyn.


The economy is not like a housewife's budget, never has been, never will
be.

Privatising gas, electricity, railways, mail, bus services are also
stupid for the same obvious reasons that anyone who has even walked
within a few feet of an economics text book would tell you.


To a considerable extent it depends on whether a functional market can operate. For utilities like water, gas and electric probably not. Railways it probably can (although the track should stay state owned like the roads). Bus and mail less certain. Royal Mail only ever had a monopoly on delivery costing under one pound.


And so we carry on paying the sponging parasitic shareholders because we
have no choice. But oh wait, we do have a choice...


Have you any idea of the amount of capital needed to construct say a mobile phone network or a satellite TV system? There is risk as well as reward in a free market and sometimes shareholders lose their money.

But using adjectives like parasitic and sponging to describe people prepared to invest their money gives away that your agenda is ideological rather than based on economic efficiency.
 




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