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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Openreach to be nationalised



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 15th 19, 12:42 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 650
Default Openreach to be nationalised

Back to the bad old days of you can only rent a phone / modem / TAM from the GPO and pay over the odds.

Lots bonkers about this: -

1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps is way enough to stream 4k video. Business customers may do (dozens of PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.

2. Leaves Virgin and the likes of Hyperoptic high and dry - who would order off them if fibre is free?

3. Shareholders get left with unsaleable [either by law or because no sucker will buy them] low coupon bonds, which as well as unfair undermines the UK govt gilts market.

4. If taxed heavily Google and others would simply quit the UK market. Does Google submit to censorship in China - no - and it has twenty times as many people as the UK. Besides this is the internet, so there is always a way to the content people want, even in theocratic states like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps the silliest idea is that government directed IT development will work better. Presumably it will be able to emulate its past huge commercial successes like GPO's System X or ICL*...


* not strictly nationalised, but cobbled together by government re-organisation of prior companies.


  #2  
Old November 15th 19, 12:55 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
bert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Openreach to be nationalised

In article , R.
Mark Clayton writes
Back to the bad old days of you can only rent a phone / modem / TAM
from the GPO and pay over the odds.

Lots bonkers about this: -

1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps is
way enough to stream 4k video. Business customers may do (dozens of
PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.

2. Leaves Virgin and the likes of Hyperoptic high and dry - who would
order off them if fibre is free?

3. Shareholders get left with unsaleable [either by law or because no
sucker will buy them] low coupon bonds, which as well as unfair
undermines the UK govt gilts market.

4. If taxed heavily Google and others would simply quit the UK market.
Does Google submit to censorship in China - no - and it has twenty
times as many people as the UK. Besides this is the internet, so there
is always a way to the content people want, even in theocratic states
like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps the silliest idea is that government directed IT development
will work better. Presumably it will be able to emulate its past huge
commercial successes like GPO's System X or ICL*...


* not strictly nationalised, but cobbled together by government
re-organisation of prior companies.


The network rail of the Internet.

Marxists do not buy assets at market value, they expropriate them.
According to Mc'Donnell parliament will decide the price - a Marxist
controlled parliament So shareholders (mostly your pension fund) will be
left high and dry.
--
bert
  #3  
Old November 15th 19, 01:06 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default Openreach to be nationalised

bert wrote:
In article , R.
Mark Clayton writes
Back to the bad old days of you can only rent a phone / modem / TAM
from the GPO and pay over the odds.

Lots bonkers about this: -

1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps is
way enough to stream 4k video. Business customers may do (dozens of
PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.

2. Leaves Virgin and the likes of Hyperoptic high and dry - who would
order off them if fibre is free?

3. Shareholders get left with unsaleable [either by law or because no
sucker will buy them] low coupon bonds, which as well as unfair
undermines the UK govt gilts market.

4. If taxed heavily Google and others would simply quit the UK market.
Does Google submit to censorship in China - no - and it has twenty
times as many people as the UK. Besides this is the internet, so there
is always a way to the content people want, even in theocratic states
like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps the silliest idea is that government directed IT development
will work better. Presumably it will be able to emulate its past huge
commercial successes like GPO's System X or ICL*...


* not strictly nationalised, but cobbled together by government
re-organisation of prior companies.


The network rail of the Internet.

Marxists do not buy assets at market value, they expropriate them.
According to Mc'Donnell parliament will decide the price - a Marxist
controlled parliament So shareholders (mostly your pension fund) will be
left high and dry.


It's all completely bonkers, and is a sign that the Labour leadership has
given up any hope of actually forming a majority government to implement
such policies.

This is simply to demonstrate to the faithful that, this time, they didn't
fail through any lack of Marxist zeal. Labour lost the last three general
elections with more-or-less centre-left economic policies; this time
they're trying the full Hugo Chavez approach.

Incidentally, I think BT's largest shareholder is German (DT, 32% owned by
the German government). Imagine their immediate legal response to such
confiscation!

  #4  
Old November 15th 19, 01:39 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Flop
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 96
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 12:06, Recliner wrote:

It's all completely bonkers, and is a sign that the Labour leadership has
given up any hope of actually forming a majority government to implement
such policies.


Are they deliberately trying to emulate Mrs May?

Bang on and on about trivial policies and ignore the main issues. This
just gives the opposition a way to selectively criticise policies.

I suspect that any party that just concentrates on two or three issues
(eg Brexit, NHS) will make a far better impression.

So it is controlled Party suicide.


--

Flop

Truly the Good Lord gave us computers that we might learn patience
  #5  
Old November 15th 19, 01:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 564
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 11:42, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

Back to the bad old days of you can only rent a phone / modem / TAM from the GPO and pay over the odds.

Lots bonkers about this: -

1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps is way enough to stream 4k video. Business customers may do (dozens of PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.

2. Leaves Virgin and the likes of Hyperoptic high and dry - who would order off them if fibre is free?

3. Shareholders get left with unsaleable [either by law or because no sucker will buy them] low coupon bonds, which as well as unfair undermines the UK govt gilts market.

4. If taxed heavily Google and others would simply quit the UK market. Does Google submit to censorship in China - no - and it has twenty times as many people as the UK. Besides this is the internet, so there is always a way to the content people want, even in theocratic states like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps the silliest idea is that government directed IT development will work better. Presumably it will be able to emulate its past huge commercial successes like GPO's System X or ICL*...


* not strictly nationalised, but cobbled together by government re-organisation of prior companies.


Link? Or did you mean this, in which case your Subject is misleading,
because Labour aren't even in power, and may still not be after the
election:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50427369

I too do not have fond memories of the nationalised BT ...
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Re...ssAssHole.html
.... and am inclined to agree that nationalisation isn't necessarily a
cure for all evils, and in fact often introduces evils of its own, but
the current performance of OpenReach is utterly and unacceptably
abysmal, and needs to be improved *somehow*. Nationalisation may do
that, but it may also create such a distraction that in the short term
their performance becomes even worse, if that's possible, before it gets
better.

I think the most important thing is to give Ofcom a new set of *very*
sharp teeth, and make it unmistakably clear to them that they are
expected to bite deep and hard on miscreants such as OpenReach, so that
they know that they will be savaged unless their so-called service lives
up to its name, and begins actually to serve *all* its customers,
including those that are hardest to reach ...

Known faults where temporary repairs have never been properly buried later:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Shinness/FTTC...frishFault.jpg
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Shinness/FTTC...airnFault1.jpg
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Shinness/FTTC...airnFault2.jpg

One of many instances of cables not being buried properly across farm &
field gateways, where they are subject to frequent running over by tractors:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/20170712_141012.jpg

Yet another roadside cabinet damaged by verge trimming:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/20170712_140740.jpg

A roadside cabinet first exposed by ditch clearance ...
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/20171211_142117.jpg
.... then later hit by something so that it rested against the edge of
the road ...
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/20180403_142552.jpg
.... and now it's twisted around in the ditch as well, so has obviously
been hit again, but I don't have a photo of that.
  #6  
Old November 15th 19, 02:15 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
grinch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Openreach to be nationalised

This could be made to work if 2 conditions were met

1 Openreach to be treated as a utility company that has a monopoly but
has to meet certain criteria. Fully stable working 10mbs to all
customers from day one and FTTP 1 gig within 10 years to all customers.
Both legally binding on Openreach, from day one.

2 Openreach cannot provide end user services a bit like your local
electricity supply company.They supply connectivity to all ISPs/telcos
at the same price.


Given our political classes ,hell freezing over is more likely. The
above would need backbone and commitment and an understanding of the
telecoms industry, which given their usual pronouncements in the press,
is in short supply.


  #7  
Old November 15th 19, 03:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richmond
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Openreach to be nationalised

Comparing the current system from one we had 40 years ago will make it
look good obviously. But if you compare our system with others in Europe
that's not good.

Privatising a monopoly is a stupid idea, and only someone so obsessed
with ideology that her brain had stopped functioning completely would do
such a thing, and her name was Margaret Thatcher.

The economy is not like a housewife's budget, never has been, never will
be.

Privatising gas, electricity, railways, mail, bus services are also
stupid for the same obvious reasons that anyone who has even walked
within a few feet of an economics text book would tell you.

And so we carry on paying the sponging parasitic shareholders because we
have no choice. But oh wait, we do have a choice...
  #8  
Old November 15th 19, 04:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MB[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 277
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 11:42, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
Back to the bad old days of you can only rent a phone / modem / TAM from the GPO and pay over the odds.

Lots bonkers about this: -

1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps is way enough to stream 4k video. Business customers may do (dozens of PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.

2. Leaves Virgin and the likes of Hyperoptic high and dry - who would order off them if fibre is free?

3. Shareholders get left with unsaleable [either by law or because no sucker will buy them] low coupon bonds, which as well as unfair undermines the UK govt gilts market.

4. If taxed heavily Google and others would simply quit the UK market. Does Google submit to censorship in China - no - and it has twenty times as many people as the UK. Besides this is the internet, so there is always a way to the content people want, even in theocratic states like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps the silliest idea is that government directed IT development will work better. Presumably it will be able to emulate its past huge commercial successes like GPO's System X or ICL*...


* not strictly nationalised, but cobbled together by government re-organisation of prior companies.





MacDonnell says free for everyone but I suspect that would change in the
unlikely event of them ever getting any power. Do we really want to
give free broadband to a wealthy person living on a remote rural or with
a second home there (even if he is a Champagne Socialist)?

Someone asked him this morning, why not free water etc and it waffled.

If someone wants to set up a rural business using lots of water,
electricity etc then they expect to have to budget for it but some
reason expect fast broadband free or heavily subsidised. Never
understood why they should not have to include that in their business
costs - they will be charged for the cost of their telephone (actual
cost and not standard charge).

Already one company has had to put on hold a plan to sell off part of
their business.

As above big companies will go abroad especially when people like
Druncker was offering low tax for companies like Amazon to use
Luxembourg to avoid tax.

I suppose we should be grateful that no one with half a brain would vote
Labour into power!





  #9  
Old November 15th 19, 04:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jeff Gaines
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 405
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 in message Richmond wrote:

Privatising gas, electricity, railways, mail, bus services are also
stupid for the same obvious reasons that anyone who has even walked
within a few feet of an economics text book would tell you.


Just not true - look at how BT works now against pre-privatisation when
they felt they were doing you a favour talking to you.

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.
(Ken Olson, president Digital Equipment, 1977)
  #10  
Old November 15th 19, 04:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andrew[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 52
Default Openreach to be nationalised

On 15/11/2019 12:49, Java Jive wrote:
On 15/11/2019 11:42, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

Back to the bad old days of you can only rent a phone / modem / TAM
from the GPO and pay over the odds.

Lots bonkers about this: -

1. Probably no domestic customers need fibre, just A/VDSL - 50Mbps is
way enough to stream 4k video.* Business customers may do (dozens of
PC's on site), but this is a small sector of the market.

2. Leaves Virgin and the likes of Hyperoptic high and dry - who would
order off them if fibre is free?

3. Shareholders get left with unsaleable [either by law or because no
sucker will buy them] low coupon bonds, which as well as unfair
undermines the UK govt gilts market.

4. If taxed heavily Google and others would simply quit the UK
market.* Does Google submit to censorship in China - no - and it has
twenty times as many people as the UK.* Besides this is the internet,
so there is always a way to the content people want, even in
theocratic states like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps the silliest idea is that government directed IT development
will work better.* Presumably it will be able to emulate its past huge
commercial successes like GPO's System X or ICL*...


* not strictly nationalised, but cobbled together by government
re-organisation of prior companies.


Link?* Or did you mean this, in which case your Subject is misleading,
because Labour aren't even in power, and may still not be after the
election:
****https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50427369

I too do not have fond memories of the nationalised BT ...
*** http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Re...ssAssHole.html
... and am inclined to agree that nationalisation isn't necessarily a
cure for all evils, and in fact often introduces evils of its own, but
the current performance of OpenReach is utterly and unacceptably
abysmal, and needs to be improved *somehow*.* Nationalisation may do
that, but it may also create such a distraction that in the short term
their performance becomes even worse, if that's possible, before it gets
better.

I think the most important thing is to give Ofcom a new set of *very*
sharp teeth, and make it unmistakably clear to them that they are
expected to bite deep and hard on miscreants such as OpenReach, so that
they know that they will be savaged unless their so-called service lives
up to its name, and begins actually to serve *all* its customers,
including those that are hardest to reach ...

Known faults where temporary repairs have never been properly buried later:
** http://www.macfh.co.uk/Shinness/FTTC...frishFault.jpg
** http://www.macfh.co.uk/Shinness/FTTC...airnFault1.jpg
** http://www.macfh.co.uk/Shinness/FTTC...airnFault2.jpg

One of many instances of cables not being buried properly across farm &
field gateways, where they are subject to frequent running over by
tractors:
** http://www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/20170712_141012.jpg

Yet another roadside cabinet damaged by verge trimming:
*** http://www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/20170712_140740.jpg

A roadside cabinet first exposed by ditch clearance ...
** http://www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/20171211_142117.jpg
... then later hit by something so that it rested against the edge of
the road ...
** http://www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/20180403_142552.jpg
... and now it's twisted around in the ditch as well, so has obviously
been hit again, but I don't have a photo of that.


All the buried phone cables serving the 150 houses on the estate where
I live (built 1972 to 1978) were only buried about 6 to 8 inches deep
under the grass verges. Whenever a skip lorry or other delivery
wagon (or even a LWB 'landrover') drives onto the verge during wet
winter weather, someone usually loses their phone or broadband.

Were these cables laid by the builders or the GPO ?. Dunno.

 




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