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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

DECT and FTTC, any known issues?



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 8th 20, 01:28 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 489
Default DECT and FTTC, any known issues?

Graham J wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Graham J wrote:

I would anticipate problems where the DECT phone interferes with the
FTTC service


Why?* The DECT is just a POTS device, it's operating on the baseband
part of the line under 3000Hz, not on the broadband part ...


No,


I thought you were talking about the POTS and VDSL signals on the wire

the DECT basestation transmits RF to communicate with the handsets.
*Potentially this could interfere with the FTTC signal, but this is
unlikely because the frequencies are very different.


indeed VDSL2 in the UK tops out at 17 MHz, DECT starts at 1880 MHz, but
I've never heard DECT interference on a phone line (unlike GSM interference)

  #12  
Old January 8th 20, 02:04 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 232
Default DECT and FTTC, any known issues?

Andy Burns wrote:

[snip]


the DECT basestation transmits RF to communicate with the handsets.
**Potentially this could interfere with the FTTC signal, but this is
unlikely because the frequencies are very different.


indeed VDSL2 in the UK tops out at 17 MHz, DECT starts at 1880 MHz, but
I've never heard DECT interference on a phone line (unlike GSM
interference)


If there are diode-like junctions on the wires, or in the FTTC
modem/router, there is the potential for interference where the DECT
radio signals disrupt the FTTC signal. Certainly a theoretical
possibility, though not often seen I would think.

The problem you describe appears to affect the call management - you
wrote: "(not detecting some calls and not always clearing down)". This
is achieved at low frequencies and DC, and will be implemented in the
DECT base station.

Ringing current is traditionally 17Hz AC, and the "off-hook" handset
state is detected by DC at anything between 8mA and 70mA.

My suspicion is that your DECT handset(s) don't communicate properly
with the DECT base station. If you have more than one handset, always
leave one beside (or on) the base station. If that one always receives
calls and always hangs up correctly then my suspicion would be confirmed.

You might be able to configure the base station to ring ...

--
Graham J
  #13  
Old January 8th 20, 02:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Invalid
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 153
Default DECT and FTTC, any known issues?

In message , Chris Green
writes
grinch wrote:
On 08/01/2020 10:28, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 09:37:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Following on from my posting in uk.telecom about our DECT phone
problems (not detecting some calls and not always clearing down) it
occurred to me that the only (fairly) recent change to our line was
a switch from ADSL to FTTC.

Are there any known problems likely to occur when using an FTTC line
with DECT? Are filters more critical for example?

I can't think why DECT and ADSL would be expected to interact, as the
frequencies are vastly different, by a factor of a thousand or so.

They're both RF, so there's always the possibility of a bad electrical
connection somewhere causing partial rectification, which could upset
DC conditions and maybe cause problems. Or your phone could be faulty.

I've put DECT base stations and ADSL/VDSL modems next to each other
only inches apart without any problems, so they're clearly designed to
be capable of working like that.

Rod.

This is not very scientific, but some fritzbox routers support dect
v/adsl and wifi in the same router, so I doubt there is an issue caused
by the dect phone.

Most likely issue is a faulty/ going faulty phone ,the only other
possible issue is that the incoming level of the phone line is less than
it used to be. That would have caused an issue straight away though I
would have thought.

As I said (in the other thread) I've changed the DECT base station and
I have also changed the POTS phone, the symptoms are just the same.


As suggested before try an analogue phone as well and see if that works.
If that works is does tend to point the finger at the dect phone being
the issue.


It's not a very consistent fault, maybe happens on one call in ten and
it does seem to happen most often with one particular caller.

Do you know who provides phone service to the problem caller? Is it a
call from a mobile network or another landline?

One possibility might be a signalling issue between the caller's
network, and whoever provides you with phone services. Did you switch
providers when you went to FTTC.

If you can check the source of other problem calls and identify
something in common between the callers with whom you are having
trouble, that might be a clue, and allow you to contact your phone
provider.
--
Invalid
  #14  
Old January 8th 20, 03:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 254
Default DECT and FTTC, any known issues?

Invalid wrote:
In message , Chris Green
writes
grinch wrote:
On 08/01/2020 10:28, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 09:37:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Following on from my posting in uk.telecom about our DECT phone
problems (not detecting some calls and not always clearing down) it
occurred to me that the only (fairly) recent change to our line was
a switch from ADSL to FTTC.

Are there any known problems likely to occur when using an FTTC line
with DECT? Are filters more critical for example?

I can't think why DECT and ADSL would be expected to interact, as the
frequencies are vastly different, by a factor of a thousand or so.

They're both RF, so there's always the possibility of a bad electrical
connection somewhere causing partial rectification, which could upset
DC conditions and maybe cause problems. Or your phone could be faulty.

I've put DECT base stations and ADSL/VDSL modems next to each other
only inches apart without any problems, so they're clearly designed to
be capable of working like that.

Rod.

This is not very scientific, but some fritzbox routers support dect
v/adsl and wifi in the same router, so I doubt there is an issue caused
by the dect phone.

Most likely issue is a faulty/ going faulty phone ,the only other
possible issue is that the incoming level of the phone line is less than
it used to be. That would have caused an issue straight away though I
would have thought.

As I said (in the other thread) I've changed the DECT base station and
I have also changed the POTS phone, the symptoms are just the same.


As suggested before try an analogue phone as well and see if that works.
If that works is does tend to point the finger at the dect phone being
the issue.


It's not a very consistent fault, maybe happens on one call in ten and
it does seem to happen most often with one particular caller.

Do you know who provides phone service to the problem caller? Is it a
call from a mobile network or another landline?

It's from a mobile.

One possibility might be a signalling issue between the caller's
network, and whoever provides you with phone services. Did you switch
providers when you went to FTTC.

No, we were with PlusNet for some years ADSL and have had FTTC for a
couple of years now (maybe only a year).


If you can check the source of other problem calls and identify
something in common between the callers with whom you are having
trouble, that might be a clue, and allow you to contact your phone
provider.


Yes, maybe we should start trying to do that, record calls which have
problems.

--
Chris Green

  #15  
Old January 8th 20, 04:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 812
Default DECT and FTTC, any known issues?

On Wed 08/01/2020 14:04, Graham J wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

[snip]


the DECT basestation transmits RF to communicate with the handsets.
**Potentially this could interfere with the FTTC signal, but this is
unlikely because the frequencies are very different.


indeed VDSL2 in the UK tops out at 17 MHz, DECT starts at 1880 MHz,
but I've never heard DECT interference on a phone line (unlike GSM
interference)


If there are diode-like junctions on the wires, or in the FTTC
modem/router, there is the potential for interference where the DECT
radio signals disrupt the FTTC signal.* Certainly a theoretical
possibility, though not often seen I would think.

The problem you describe appears to affect the call management - you
wrote: "(not detecting some calls and not always clearing down)".* This
is achieved at low frequencies and DC, and will be implemented in the
DECT base station.

Ringing current is traditionally 17Hz AC, and the "off-hook" handset
state is detected by DC at anything between 8mA and 70mA.

My suspicion is that your DECT handset(s) don't communicate properly
with the DECT base station.* If you have more than one handset, always
leave one beside (or on) the base station.* If that one always receives
calls and always hangs up correctly then my suspicion would be confirmed.

You might be able to configure the base station to ring ...


I was never a BT engineer but I dealt with lines a lot.
ISTR that 17Hz ringing volts was in Strowger days, moving to 25Hz from
crossbar onwards.

To Chris per the move to FTTC, don't forget that for FTTC implementation
you exchange pair is taken out of your serving street cab to the FTTC
cab and back in to your street cab for the pair to your premises. It is
always possibly there is a poor connection either in the street cab or
the FTTC cab?

--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
  #16  
Old January 8th 20, 05:05 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 489
Default DECT and FTTC, any known issues?

Woody wrote:

To Chris per the move to FTTC, don't forget that for FTTC implementation
you exchange pair is taken out of your serving street cab to the FTTC
cab and back in to your street cab for the pair to your premises.


Could the A and B legs have been reversed, and the DECT base not like
that, but the POTS phone doesn't care?
  #17  
Old January 8th 20, 05:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 232
Default DECT and FTTC, any known issues?

On 08/01/2020 14:04, Graham J wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

[snip]


the DECT basestation transmits RF to communicate with the handsets.
**Potentially this could interfere with the FTTC signal, but this is
unlikely because the frequencies are very different.


indeed VDSL2 in the UK tops out at 17 MHz, DECT starts at 1880 MHz,
but I've never heard DECT interference on a phone line (unlike GSM
interference)


If there are diode-like junctions on the wires, or in the FTTC
modem/router, there is the potential for interference where the DECT
radio signals disrupt the FTTC signal.* Certainly a theoretical
possibility, though not often seen I would think.

The problem you describe appears to affect the call management - you
wrote: "(not detecting some calls and not always clearing down)".* This
is achieved at low frequencies and DC, and will be implemented in the
DECT base station.

Ringing current is traditionally 17Hz AC, and the "off-hook" handset
state is detected by DC at anything between 8mA and 70mA.

My suspicion is that your DECT handset(s) don't communicate properly
with the DECT base station.* If you have more than one handset, always
leave one beside (or on) the base station.* If that one always receives
calls and always hangs up correctly then my suspicion would be confirmed.

You might be able to configure the base station to ring ...


That sort of fault may be not putting the handset into the base station
correctly or the base station not recognising that it is on-hook.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #18  
Old January 8th 20, 05:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 232
Default DECT and FTTC, any known issues?

On 08/01/2020 13:08, Graham J wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Graham J wrote:

I would anticipate problems where the DECT phone interferes with the
FTTC service


Why?* The DECT is just a POTS device, it's operating on the baseband
part of the line under 3000Hz, not on the broadband part ...


No, the DECT basestation transmits RF to communicate with the handsets.
*Potentially this could interfere with the FTTC signal, but this is
unlikely because the frequencies are very different.


I have known some models of BT DECT handset charging stations emit
broadband RF interference that degrades mobile phone signals. It only
showed up when we retired my brother in laws ancient base station.

Mobile phone signal miraculously improved the moment we switched it off
(and degraded when the thing was switched on again).

I can't see any reason why FTTC should cause problems for the
functioning of a DECT handset. Some improvements made a few years ago
mean that not all DECT handsets are able to register with all base
stations and some don't work with CLID any more. One of mine is a bit
intermittent about displaying CLID even from regular callers.

The first thing to try with an erratic phone is to put a set of known to
be good charged batteries into it and see if that fixes the problem.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #19  
Old January 8th 20, 05:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 609
Default DECT and FTTC, any known issues?

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 12:51:30 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

As I said (in the other thread) I've changed the DECT base station and
I have also changed the POTS phone, the symptoms are just the same.


That would suggest it's a line problem.

Rod.
  #20  
Old January 8th 20, 06:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 254
Default DECT and FTTC, any known issues?

Woody wrote:

To Chris per the move to FTTC, don't forget that for FTTC implementation
you exchange pair is taken out of your serving street cab to the FTTC
cab and back in to your street cab for the pair to your premises. It is
always possibly there is a poor connection either in the street cab or
the FTTC cab?

Yes, that was my thinking, not that there's anything inherently wrong
with FTTC/DECT but I might just have got a somewhat dodgier connection
than I had before.

--
Chris Green

 




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