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Changing DNS PTR entries



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 14th 20, 12:54 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Changing DNS PTR entries

David Rance wrote:

[snip]

You have a website hosted with 123-reg, of the form DavidRance.co.uk -
yes?


Well, close! The website is hosted on my machine here. If you are
curious enough to look at it you will see that it is a private site for
local crematorium organists, but don't let that confuse you because it
has nothing to do with the DNS. Neither will you find links to any other
pages. Only registered users can get any further.


OK I see the DNS entries. Two MX records:

Preference 10 for mail.rance.org.uk from Claranet
Preference 20 for mail.mesnil.co.uk from IDNet

mail.mesnil.co.uk and (the A record) rance.org.uk have the same IP address.

The domain name is registered with 123-reg, but the IP address is
provided by IDnet.


i.e. the IP address of your internet connection, and hence your server.

Surely your MX records are the wrong way round? Normally you would want
mail delivered to your mailserver mail.mesnil.co.uk and only delivered
to mail.rance.org.uk if your server is off-line? The mailserver
mail.rance.org.uk could be configured to store received mail and deliver
it to mail.mesnil.co.uk when it next comes on-line.

Talking of which, how do you ensure that your server is always
available? Do you have a SLA with IDnet to guarantee 100% availability?
Surely it would be better to rent a shared server from a hosting service?

I don't have email facilities with either. As the DNS
has been readdressed to 123-net so that I can change it as needed, I've
naturally thought that the PTR is included but they assure me that it
isn't - or they are unwilling to change it. Maybe I need to get in touch
with IDnet to see if the PTR entry is still configurable by them.
Failing that, I'll need to change my ISP to, say, Zen which Malcolm
recommends.


I suggest it is the name registrar (123-reg) that you need to deal with,
not your connectivity provider. It is 123-reg who have control of the
DNS settings.

You could register your domain with Zen but although they are excellent
for internet connectivity I have found their hosting rather confusing,
and I'm not sure they understand it either. I've used Namesco and
Tollon (now Elite) in the past and found I could make the necessary DNS
settings via their respective control panels. If you ask a technical
question they should be able to answer.




--
Graham J
  #12  
Old February 14th 20, 02:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Changing DNS PTR entries

David Rance wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:28:52 Graham J wrote:

You operate a mail server and at 123-reg there is an MX record
pointing to the IP address of your mail server, so any mail of the
form " is delivered to your mail server - yes?


I've just realised that you may have done an nslookup look up and found
davidrance.co.uk. You would certainly have been confused because that
isn't me! It looks as though that David Rance (and, despite what looks
like an unusual name, there are many of us!) is registered with GoDaddy.


Er, no.

I took your: nameatrancedotorgdotuk

and looked up: rance.org.uk

I used DNS Data View from

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/dns_records_viewer.html

The PTR records for mail.rance.org.uk and mail.mesnil.co.uk don't look
right for your requirements ...



--
Graham J
  #13  
Old February 14th 20, 02:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Rance[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Changing DNS PTR entries

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:54:50 Graham J wrote:

Well, close! The website is hosted on my machine here. If you are
curious enough to look at it you will see that it is a private site
for local crematorium organists, but don't let that confuse you
because it has nothing to do with the DNS. Neither will you find
links to any other pages. Only registered users can get any further.


OK I see the DNS entries. Two MX records:

Preference 10 for mail.rance.org.uk from Claranet


Vodafone. I inherited them from what was originally, twenty years ago,
Demon.

I suggest it is the name registrar (123-reg) that you need to deal
with, not your connectivity provider. It is 123-reg who have control
of the DNS settings.


I know, but their response is, "the pointer is not part of our
platform."

You could register your domain with Zen but although they are excellent
for internet connectivity I have found their hosting rather confusing,
and I'm not sure they understand it either. I've used Namesco and
Tollon (now Elite) in the past and found I could make the necessary DNS
settings via their respective control panels. If you ask a technical
question they should be able to answer.


I've used Namesco in the past but moved when they wanted to charge for
changing DNS servers. Changing the PTR has become an issue only
recently.

David


--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
  #14  
Old February 14th 20, 02:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Rance[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Changing DNS PTR entries

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 13:01:33 Graham J wrote:

David Rance wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:28:52 Graham J wrote:

You operate a mail server and at 123-reg there is an MX record
pointing to the IP address of your mail server, so any mail of the
" is delivered to your mail server - yes?

I've just realised that you may have done an nslookup look up and
found davidrance.co.uk. You would certainly have been confused
because that isn't me! It looks as though that David Rance (and,
despite what looks like an unusual name, there are many of us!) is
registered with GoDaddy.


Er, no.

I took your: nameatrancedotorgdotuk

and looked up: rance.org.uk


Ah, so when you referred to davidrance.co.uk you were just guessing! my
apologies!

I used DNS Data View from

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/dns_records_viewer.html

The PTR records for mail.rance.org.uk and mail.mesnil.co.uk don't look
right for your requirements ...


I know! That's what this is all about!

Forget the Vodafone connection. I have absolutely no problems with
incoming mail. This is to do solely with *outgoing* mail which always
uses the IDnet connection and which goes from a machine identifying
itself as rancedotorgdotuk.

I send an email to from a machine announcing itself as
rancedotorgdotuk. The server at gmx does a reverse dns check and doesn't
find rancedotorgdotuk. This is the response I get:

554-Bad DNS PTR resource record.

That's why I want to change it. Luckily gmx is the only ISP with whom
I've had this problem. But if you read the relevant RFCs you'll find
that this method of checking is deprecated but gmx is so big they're not
likely to listen to anyone.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
  #15  
Old February 14th 20, 02:58 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Changing DNS PTR entries

David Rance wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:54:50 Graham J wrote:

*Well, close! The website is hosted on my machine here. If you are
curious enough to look at it you will see that it is a private site
for* local crematorium organists, but don't let that confuse you
because it* has nothing to do with the DNS. Neither will you find
links to any other pages. Only registered users can get any further.


OK I see the DNS entries.* Two MX records:

Preference 10 for mail.rance.org.uk from Claranet


Vodafone. I inherited them from what was originally, twenty years ago,
Demon.

I suggest it is the name registrar (123-reg) that you need to deal
with, not your connectivity provider.* It is 123-reg who have control
of the DNS settings.


I know, but their response is, "the pointer is not part of our platform."


[snip]

I think ...

.... for mail.rance.org.uk you would therefore have to talk to Vodafone;

.... for mail.mesnil.uk and rance.org.uk you have to talk to IDNet.

Because I think it is the people who control the IP addresses who manage
the reverse lookup PTR records.

Are you certain that it is the PTR records that gmail are looking at
when they reject your mail? There is also DKIM see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomainKeys_Identified_Mail

Probably all this could be managed for you by a competent mail hosting
service. Is there a good reason for having your own server at your
property?

--
Graham J
  #16  
Old February 14th 20, 03:57 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Malcolm Loades[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 34
Default Changing DNS PTR entries

On 14/02/2020 13:58, Graham J wrote:

Probably all this could be managed for you by a competent mail hosting
service. Is there a good reason for having your own server at your
property?

I'll leave David to answer what his reasons are.

For me, I run my own mailserver so I can track mail from my machine to
the recipients server. Using a relay only allows you to see tracking to
the relay server. You have to then blindly trust that it was further
relayed to the recipient.

A full SMTP transcript can be very useful should it ever be needed to
prove that an email was both sent and received by the recipient. Like
'recorded delivery' post, the email is signed for by the recipients
mailserver, whether it was opened or read is another matter just as it
is with a letter. Using a relay only provides 'proof of posting' not of
receipt.

Malcolm

  #17  
Old February 14th 20, 04:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Rance[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Changing DNS PTR entries

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 14:57:32 Malcolm Loades wrote:

On 14/02/2020 13:58, Graham J wrote:

Probably all this could be managed for you by a competent mail hosting
service. Is there a good reason for having your own server at your
property?

I'll leave David to answer what his reasons are.

For me, I run my own mailserver so I can track mail from my machine to
the recipients server. Using a relay only allows you to see tracking
to the relay server. You have to then blindly trust that it was
further relayed to the recipient.


Precisely!

I have some people who say that they have never received an email. I
then say, "Well, I have a record of it being delivered to your ISP. If
you haven't seen it, then it has got lost somewhere between your ISP and
you. Have you tried your junk folder?"

In the case of the delivery, or rather non-delivery, to the gmx server,
at least I knew that it didn't get any further than my server. And
sometimes when an email which has been routed has really not arrived at
the destination there is not always a bounce message to say that it
hasn't been delivered.

It's so much easier to keep tabs on things with one's own server!

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
  #18  
Old February 14th 20, 05:04 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Changing DNS PTR entries

Graham J wrote:

[snip]

OK I see the DNS entries.* Two MX records:

Preference 10 for mail.rance.org.uk from Claranet


Vodafone. I inherited them from what was originally, twenty years ago,
Demon.

I suggest it is the name registrar (123-reg) that you need to deal
with, not your connectivity provider.* It is 123-reg who have control
of the DNS settings.


I know, but their response is, "the pointer is not part of our platform."


[snip]

I think ...

... for mail.rance.org.uk you would therefore have to talk to Vodafone;

... for mail.mesnil.uk and rance.org.uk you have to talk to IDNet.

Because I think it is the people who control the IP addresses who manage
the reverse lookup PTR records.

Are you certain that it is the PTR records that gmail are looking at
when they reject your mail?* There is also DKIM see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomainKeys_Identified_Mail

Probably all this could be managed for you by a competent mail hosting
service.* Is there a good reason for having your own server at your
property?


I think I confused myself earlier.

The response: "the pointer is not part of our platform." is entirely true.

The PTR records allow lookup of the domain names that a specific IP
address points to. So it is actually the function of the organisation
managing that IP address who has to assign the domain names to it.

When an email leaves your mailserver it describes itself as coming from
but the mailserver that receives it sees that the
packets coming from the IP address given to you by your connectivity
provider. This is IDNet. So you must ask IDNet to edit their PTR
record to look like this:

133.46.69.212.in-addr.arpa IN PTR rance.org.uk

While not forbidden, it is considered bad practise to have more than one
PTR record since many systems will only take the first response from the
reverse lookup, so if you also had:

133.46.69.212.in-addr.arpa IN PTR mail.mesnil.uk

.... outgoing emails might fail intermittently. I can't find a good
answer to this on the web, but the general view is that a PTR record
must exist, and what it points to must also exist but is immaterial; and
that you should use SPF records to satisfy spam filters.

So is your SPF record correct?

It is for 212.69.46.133 because that is where your mailserver sends from.

Is there any circumstance under which mail from
would appear to originate from IP 87.75.116.89 ??

What is Claranet/Vodafone doing for you? Is it some sort of smart mail
relay?


--
Graham J
  #19  
Old February 14th 20, 05:40 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Rance[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Changing DNS PTR entries

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 16:04:50 Graham J wrote:

Graham J wrote:

[snip]

OK I see the DNS entries.* Two MX records:

Preference 10 for mail.rance.org.uk from Claranet

Vodafone. I inherited them from what was originally, twenty years
ago, Demon.

I suggest it is the name registrar (123-reg) that you need to deal
with, not your connectivity provider.* It is 123-reg who have
control of the DNS settings.

I know, but their response is, "the pointer is not part of our platform."

[snip]
I think ...
... for mail.rance.org.uk you would therefore have to talk to
Vodafone;
... for mail.mesnil.uk and rance.org.uk you have to talk to IDNet.
Because I think it is the people who control the IP addresses who
manage the reverse lookup PTR records.
Are you certain that it is the PTR records that gmail are looking at
when they reject your mail?* There is also DKIM see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomainKeys_Identified_Mail
Probably all this could be managed for you by a competent mail
hosting service.* Is there a good reason for having your own server
at your property?


I think I confused myself earlier.

The response: "the pointer is not part of our platform." is entirely true.

The PTR records allow lookup of the domain names that a specific IP
address points to. So it is actually the function of the organisation
managing that IP address who has to assign the domain names to it.

When an email leaves your mailserver it describes itself as coming from
but the mailserver that receives it sees that the
packets coming from the IP address given to you by your connectivity
provider.


Yes, I already know that.

This is IDNet. So you must ask IDNet to edit their PTR record to look
like this:

133.46.69.212.in-addr.arpa IN PTR rance.org.uk


Yes, I have now written to them asking them to do just that.

While not forbidden, it is considered bad practise to have more than
one PTR record since many systems will only take the first response
from the reverse lookup, so if you also had:

133.46.69.212.in-addr.arpa IN PTR mail.mesnil.uk


Which I won't.

... outgoing emails might fail intermittently. I can't find a good
answer to this on the web, but the general view is that a PTR record
must exist, and what it points to must also exist but is immaterial;
and that you should use SPF records to satisfy spam filters.

So is your SPF record correct?

It is for 212.69.46.133 because that is where your mailserver sends from.

Is there any circumstance under which mail from
would appear to originate from IP 87.75.116.89 ??


At one time it would, but because of this PTR problem I have decided to
use only 212.69.46.133 for sending. So, in fact, I could now remove
87.75.116.89 from the SPF entry.

What is Claranet/Vodafone doing for you? Is it some sort of smart mail
relay?


No, not at all. As I said previously, I inherited them, or, more
accurately, they inherited me from Cable & Wireless, then someone else
but ultimately from Demon Internet. So it's an historic thing. I use it
principally for web browsing because IDnet limit me to 50GB a month
download whereas Vodafone is unlimited. That line was originally used
some thirty years ago for running a BBS. I've often thought about
getting rid of it but inertia set in!

I know nothing about Claranet. Did Vodafone take them over?

David

P.S. UPDATE: While I've been writing this I've just had an email from
IDnet saying that they have made the change! If only I'd known it was as
simple as that! I just made two nslookups: The first seems to have
cached the old data or else it hadn't propagated; the second responded
correctly! I'll probably have to wait for some 24 hours for it to
propagate and then I'll try again to send to my correspondent in
Germany.

Thanks, Graham and Malcolm.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
  #20  
Old February 14th 20, 05:55 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Rance[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Changing DNS PTR entries

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 16:40:10 David Rance wrote:

P.S. UPDATE: While I've been writing this I've just had an email from
IDnet saying that they have made the change! If only I'd known it was
as simple as that! I just made two nslookups: The first seems to have
cached the old data or else it hadn't propagated; the second responded
correctly! I'll probably have to wait for some 24 hours for it to
propagate and then I'll try again to send to my correspondent in Germany.


.... which I have now done - and it works! I can now send to all my
correspondents using gmx! Hurrah!

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
 




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