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  #21  
Old February 18th 20, 02:59 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
bert
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Posts: 93
Default Weak wfi signal

In article , NY writes
"David Rance" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 11:22:00 Paul Cummins wrote:

In article ,
(Bob Henson) wrote:

British coinage system of pounds, shillings and pence.

Simple system to understand.

Two farthings = One Ha'penny.
Two ha'pennies = One Penny.
Three pennies = A Thrupenny Bit.
Two Thrupences = A Sixpence.
Two Sixpences = One Shilling, or Bob.
Two Bob = A Florin.
One Florin and One Sixpence = Half a Crown.
Four Half Crowns = Ten Bob Note.
Two Ten Bob Notes = One Pound (or 240 pennies, or 20 shillings).
One Pound and One Shilling = One Guinea.

The British resisted decimalized currency for a long time because they
thought it was too complicated.


You have made it more complicated than necessary!!


No, our ancestors made sd more complicated than it needed to be by
choosing *multiple* bases: 12 and 20, and shunning the one base that
makes sense: 10 (given that we have 10 fingers incl thumbs).

OK, so we also invented nicknames for some coins (tanner, bob, florin,
crown) but that's just an added thing that a foreigner has to learn
about our system. Interesting that no-one's invented names for any of
the decimal coins - or at least, not ones that are universally
understood in common parlance.

The past has a lot to be proud and nostalgic about, but the imperial
system and the sd monetary system are things about which we should
hang our heads in shame. *Any* system which isn't based on the base in
which we count (10) is fatally flawed.

OK, you've got the base 2 and base 16 notations used in computing, but
at least that is a specialised field, and at least it uses additional
symbols (letters A-F) to denote values which require two decimal digits
to express.

I've seen arguments that 12 would be a better base as it has more
factors than 10.
--
bert
  #22  
Old February 18th 20, 03:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
bert
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Posts: 93
Default Weak wfi signal

In article , Bob Henson
writes
David Rance wrote:

On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 11:22:00 Paul Cummins wrote:

In article ,
(Bob Henson) wrote:

British coinage system of pounds, shillings and pence.

Simple system to understand.

Two farthings = One Ha'penny.
Two ha'pennies = One Penny.
Three pennies = A Thrupenny Bit.
Two Thrupences = A Sixpence.
Two Sixpences = One Shilling, or Bob.
Two Bob = A Florin.
One Florin and One Sixpence = Half a Crown.
Four Half Crowns = Ten Bob Note.
Two Ten Bob Notes = One Pound (or 240 pennies, or 20 shillings).
One Pound and One Shilling = One Guinea.

The British resisted decimalized currency for a long time because they
thought it was too complicated.


You have made it more complicated than necessary!!

David


Not a lot, though. We were indescribably happy in retail business the day
we got decimalised coinage. Gentlemen's trouser pockets lasted 10 times as
long when we got rid of the old "copper" coins too - albeit the "keep fit"
benefits of carrying that amount of weight around was lost. The old penny
was around the size of Don Quixote's shield :-) (Old Fidonet Joke!)


Of course you were happy. Choosing the pound as the base meant you
effectively more than doubled the price of the small items on which we
spend most of our money.
--
bert
  #23  
Old February 18th 20, 03:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
bert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 93
Default Weak wfi signal

In article , Richard Tobin
writes
In article . uk,
Paul Cummins wrote:

British coinage system of pounds, shillings and pence.


Simple system to understand.

Two farthings = One Ha'penny.
Two ha'pennies = One Penny.
Three pennies = A Thrupenny Bit.
Two Thrupences = A Sixpence.
Two Sixpences = One Shilling, or Bob.
Two Bob = A Florin.


The two-shillling florin is not traditional British money. It was
introduced as the first step to decimalization in 1849.

Evolution not revolution.
One Florin and One Sixpence = Half a Crown.
Four Half Crowns = Ten Bob Note.
Two Ten Bob Notes = One Pound (or 240 pennies, or 20 shillings).
One Pound and One Shilling = One Guinea.

The British resisted decimalized currency for a long time because they
thought it was too complicated.


-- Richard


--
bert
  #24  
Old February 18th 20, 03:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Rance[_2_]
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Posts: 36
Default Weak wfi signal

On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 13:52:19 NY wrote:

I have great difficulty doing metal arithmetic at the best of times (I
need a pen and paper so I can keep track of all the carry/borrow
digits), but the thought of doing it on mixed base 12/20 for sd
calculations would be sheer mental torture.


It was fine if you were brought up to it. Decimal currency didn't come
in until I was well into my thirties.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
  #25  
Old February 18th 20, 03:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Rance[_2_]
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Posts: 36
Default Weak wfi signal

On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 14:17:36 Ian Jackson wrote:

You omitted to say that a sixpenny coin was also known as a 'Tanner',
and Half a Crown was sometimes called 'Half a Dollar' (on the basis
that, at one time, (Spanish) dollars were worth around five bob).


Until devaluation shortly after WWII there were about four American
dollars to the pound.

Also, some called a 'Thrupenny (Threpenny) Bit' a 'Threpenny Diddler'.


My family use to call it a threepenny joey. I never found out why. I
still carry an old silver threepenny piece around with me. (No, it's not
for luck!)

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
  #26  
Old February 18th 20, 03:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Rance[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default Weak wfi signal

On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 14:58:01 bert wrote:

In article , David Rance
writes
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 11:22:00 Paul Cummins wrote:

In article ,
(Bob Henson) wrote:

British coinage system of pounds, shillings and pence.

Simple system to understand.

Two farthings = One Ha'penny.
Two ha'pennies = One Penny.
Three pennies = A Thrupenny Bit.
Two Thrupences = A Sixpence.
Two Sixpences = One Shilling, or Bob.
Two Bob = A Florin.
One Florin and One Sixpence = Half a Crown.
Four Half Crowns = Ten Bob Note.
Two Ten Bob Notes = One Pound (or 240 pennies, or 20 shillings).
One Pound and One Shilling = One Guinea.

The British resisted decimalized currency for a long time because they
thought it was too complicated.


You have made it more complicated than necessary!!

No he missed out the crown.


That;s why I said he'd made it more complicated! ;-)

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
  #27  
Old February 18th 20, 04:08 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 78
Default Weak wfi signal

"David Rance" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 13:52:19 NY wrote:

I have great difficulty doing metal arithmetic at the best of times (I
need a pen and paper so I can keep track of all the carry/borrow digits),
but the thought of doing it on mixed base 12/20 for sd calculations would
be sheer mental torture.


It was fine if you were brought up to it. Decimal currency didn't come in
until I was well into my thirties.


But even if it was easy/easier if you were brought up with it, did you not
find calculations in base ten even easier?

I was seven when decimalisation was introduced. I can vaguely remember the
large old pennies and the slightly smaller ha'penny and the brass 12-sided
thre'penny bit. Shillings and florins didn't change so dramatically, given
that a shilling and a 5p coin were identical apart from the design, and
likewise for the 2s and 10p. I don't remember ever seeing a silver 3d - I
imagine they all went out of circulation and into collectors' collections
when the 12-sided brass 3d was introduced.

I can remember going along to the newsagent at the end of my street (in a
parade of five shops, that's the only one that still survives to this day;
the rest have been converted to houses) with my mum to "pay the papers" (an
odd idiom - not "pay *for* the papers") and to buy my weekly comic. I paid
for my comic with a shilling and was given my change in these new copper
coins that were smaller than their pre-decimal equivalents. I remember that
there was a craze at school for sticking a safety pin onto an old penny or
ha'penny coin with Araldite and wearing it as a badge ;-) I may still have
mine somewhere - kept in an old Strepsils tin, IIRC.

What I hadn't realised was that the 50p coin had been introduced earlier
than 1971 as an alternative to the 10s note, and the 5p and 10p coins were
introduced as replacements for the 1s and 2s even earlier. I'd always
thought that *all* the decimal coins were released only on 15 Feb 71, and
that none were in circulation before then. I also hadn't realised that the
sixpence remained a legal coin until as recently as 1980.

Somewhere I still have the china mug that everyone was given at school with
a sd/p conversion table on the side.

I remember the maths text books at school, with lots of "sums" in them, and
being told that we didn't need to do any of the sd, tons/cwt/stones/pounds
"sums" because they were "old fashioned". And yet, nearly 50 years on, the
imperial system won't quite lie down and die, and lives on as a "folk
system". Presumably when my parents' generation is gone, memory and
knowledge of the imperial system will start to die down except as a "look
how complicated it was in the old days" curiosity.

  #28  
Old February 18th 20, 04:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 812
Default Weak wfi signal

On Tue 18/02/2020 12:12, NY wrote:
"David Rance" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 11:22:00 Paul Cummins wrote:

In article ,
(Bob Henson) wrote:

British coinage system of pounds, shillings and pence.

Simple system to understand.

Two farthings = One Ha'penny.
Two ha'pennies = One Penny.
Three pennies = A Thrupenny Bit.
Two Thrupences = A Sixpence.
Two Sixpences = One Shilling, or Bob.
Two Bob = A Florin.
One Florin and One Sixpence = Half a Crown.
Four Half Crowns = Ten Bob Note.
Two Ten Bob Notes = One Pound (or 240 pennies, or 20 shillings).
One Pound and One Shilling = One Guinea.

The British resisted decimalized currency for a long time because they
thought it was too complicated.


You have made it more complicated than necessary!!


No, our ancestors made sd more complicated than it needed to be by
choosing *multiple* bases: 12 and 20, and shunning the one base that
makes sense: 10 (given that we have 10 fingers incl thumbs).

OK, so we also invented nicknames for some coins (tanner, bob, florin,
crown) but that's just an added thing that a foreigner has to learn
about our system. Interesting that no-one's invented names for any of
the decimal coins - or at least, not ones that are universally
understood in common parlance.

The past has a lot to be proud and nostalgic about, but the imperial
system and the sd monetary system are things about which we should hang
our heads in shame. *Any* system which isn't based on the base in which
we count (10) is fatally flawed.

OK, you've got the base 2 and base 16 notations used in computing, but
at least that is a specialised field, and at least it uses additional
symbols (letters A-F) to denote values which require two decimal digits
to express.


I seem to remember the pound coin was at one time known as a Scargill
bacause it had a thin gold edge, it was rough on the outside and it wore
a hole in your pocket. A 50p was thus known as an alf-a-Scargill... (not
my fault!)

--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
  #29  
Old February 18th 20, 04:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bob Henson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Weak wfi signal

NY wrote:

"D What I hadn't realised was that the 50p coin had been introduced earlier
than 1971 as an alternative to the 10s note,


It was known by us as the "Wilson bit" - because like Harold, it was
two-faced, seven-sided and not worth a lot to anyone.


I remember the maths text books at school, with lots of "sums" in them, and
being told that we didn't need to do any of the sd, tons/cwt/stones/pounds
"sums" because they were "old fashioned". And yet, nearly 50 years on, the
imperial system won't quite lie down and die, and lives on as a "folk
system".


When I was first studying pharmacy at University (1963 - 1966) we had to
use and convert between the Avoirdupois system, Apothecary (Troy) weights
and measures (Grains, scruples, minims and the like) and metric. The
staff/examiners used to set us things to make that required all three in
one product. We still used Apothecary weights and measures in general
practice for many years afterwards. You can imagine how pleased we were
when finally everything went metric.

Presumably when my parents' generation is gone, memory and
knowledge of the imperial system will start to die down except as a "look
how complicated it was in the old days" curiosity.


The last thing to go with me was linear measure - I still use feet and
inches occasionally (usually to explain to another even older codger what
I'm talking about when I mention metric measure).

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.
  #30  
Old February 18th 20, 04:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Rance[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default Weak wfi signal

On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:08:01 NY wrote:

I was seven when decimalisation was introduced. I can vaguely remember
the large old pennies and the slightly smaller ha'penny and the brass
12-sided thre'penny bit. Shillings and florins didn't change so
dramatically, given that a shilling and a 5p coin were identical apart
from the design, and likewise for the 2s and 10p. I don't remember ever
seeing a silver 3d - I imagine they all went out of circulation and
into collectors' collections when the 12-sided brass 3d was introduced.


The silver 3d. actually predates me. The twelve sided threepenny bit was
designed and some samples first minted in Edward VIII's short reign but
it was first distributed in about 1937. The silver ones then gradually
disappeared from circulation.

I remember that there was a craze at school for sticking a safety pin
onto an old penny or ha'penny coin with Araldite and wearing it as a
badge ;-) I may still have mine somewhere - kept in an old Strepsils
tin, IIRC.


Snap! I keep my silver 3d. in an old Strepsils tin - along with a few
other things.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
 




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